Now we have to worry about booze in our vapes.

[Hulamoon]

I cannot deny that I am getting long in the tooth and "kids" seems to apply to a much wider age group than it used to. But in the context of the studies that are being done/cited, "youth" is defined as those under the legal age.

One of my best days ever was getting carded for cigarettes at the local grocery store. I was just getting over the flu; felt and looked like crap. I was in my early 40's at the time. I thanked the clerk profusely for making me feel good while I was laughing and trying to cough-hack out part of a lung.

LOL - One of my greatest peeves was that nobody had any question whatsoever that I'm an old fart. Phooeee.

 

[Douggro]

LOL - One of my greatest peeves was that nobody had any question whatsoever that I'm an old fart. Phooeee.

I officially reached "old" status a while ago, when my kids started saying I was. (I'll be 52 in March. Kids are 23, 20 & 17.)
I'm now practicing for my Crusty Curmudgeon Badge. I hear doing the obstacle course with the walker is a real bummer.. Supposedly the trick is making sure the tennis balls don't hit the cones.

 

[Mattox]

Be careful of using antiseptic wipes on your paper cuts and other boo-boos as well, they are sure to send a recovering alcoholic into a relapse...

 

[Valchemy]

what's going on? i know plenty of vapers that purposely add alcohol to their DIY e-liquid to improve the throat hit in low MG juice.

Excellent, I've been looking for something other than nicotine to provide the throat hit. Moved to 0mg last week and would like to stay there.

 

[Plumes.91]

i held on to the term kid til like last month... and i'll be 25 in a few months. lol. f*** ....'s getting real eh? I should of probably gone to college. ahh well. soon as I fix all the mistakes and s*** 14 to 18, and then all of the reallly realllly bad choices i made 18-24 that stemmed from all those mistakes i made 14-18, i'll make it big. yeah i'm gonna make it out of these suburbs and right into a broadstreet motel, one day... i promise, mom... ahhh the city...

 

[AndriaD]

Are any of you recovering alcoholics?

I'm not, but I know people who are, and they don't even like to use food flavorings or mouthwash w/alcohol in it.

Also, Yale Univ. researchers were lauded as wonderful in one topic here recently where they found something "good" about ecigs.

Yet in a topic a few weeks earlier, they were demeaned as a TCOR site who were only researching pimping themselves out. (when they found something not wonderful.)

To be honest I get WHIPLASH reading about research facilities that are good.....no wait, they're bad........no wait, they're good.......no wait, rhey're bad.

Uhh... me. I thought my "23 yrs sober" remark made that pretty clear.

But after I read a bit more of this thread... it sounds to me like the tiny amount of alcohol present in some vapes would IN NO WAY compromise my sobriety -- I've been known to put a 1/4 tsp of vanilla flavoring in my coffee, and that's not even enough to give me that full-body tingle. If I did that every single day.. or even got accustomed to using one of those "binaca" type breath sprays on a regular basis, that might be a problem, but not when it's now and then.

But it still seems like a kinda stupid thing to add to a commercial product when there's no good reason for it to be there. If an individual wants to add it to improve TH, that's a good reason... but Flash works just as well.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

I cannot deny that I am getting long in the tooth and "kids" seems to apply to a much wider age group than it used to. But in the context of the studies that are being done/cited, "youth" is defined as those under the legal age.

One of my best days ever was getting carded for cigarettes at the local grocery store. I was just getting over the flu; felt and looked like crap. I was in my early 40's at the time. I thanked the clerk profusely for making me feel good while I was laughing and trying to cough-hack out part of a lung.

I know the feeling. One of the very last times I got carded was about a year before I got sober; I had recently turned 30! I thanked the kid at the checkout profusely!!!

Andria

 

[Douggro]

I know the feeling. One of the very last times I got carded was about a year before I got sober; I had recently turned 30! I thanked the kid at the checkout profusely!!!

Andria

Conversely, I was walking into bars at 19 and not getting carded. The first time I was carded was on my 21st birthday, getting a birthday beer with one of my friends at the Martha Lake Tavern. Some things you just don't forget..

 

[zoiDman]

Yes, I guess so: Surely this study is also BS, then, right?:
Yale study, youth ecig bans increase youth smoking

Do we agree we "Studies" based on the Statistical and Scientific Merits of how a Study was performed? Or do we just Agree with those that Fit into what we want? And dismiss those that Don't?

 

[Douggro]

Do we agree we "Studies" based on the Statistical and Scientific Merits of how a Study was performed? Or do we just Agree with those that Fit into what we want? And dismiss those that Don't?

Color me skeptical. Collected data is one thing. Methodology used and the conclusion drawn from it are another. Agenda-based science is not science. It is evidence-gathering for a pre-formed conclusion.

 

[AndriaD]

Conversely, I was walking into bars at 19 and not getting carded. The first time I was carded was on my 21st birthday, getting a birthday beer with one of my friends at the Martha Lake Tavern. Some things you just don't forget..

Fortunately, or perhaps unfortunately for my future-alkie self, I was always *just* ahead of the rising age requirement to drink -- it was 18 when I turned 18; it rose to 19 about 3-4 months after i turned 19, and so on, until it hit 21... I was always old enough to drink, once I hit 18. But knowing my own very-early addiction to alcohol... I think I'd have found a way, even if I hadn't been old enough -- when I was at Lowry AFB in 1980, the only thing Colorado allowed for 18-20 yr olds was 3.2% beer -- but I found enough airmen who were old enough to buy me Tanqueray.

Andria

 

[Lessifer]

Do we agree we "Studies" based on the Statistical and Scientific Merits of how a Study was performed? Or do we just Agree with those that Fit into what we want? And dismiss those that Don't?

I try to judge every study by its actual merit, not just its conclusions. However, when there is a news story about a "study" prior to any indication that the study has actually been published, then I assume it's a case of:

Color me skeptical. Collected data is one thing. Methodology used and the conclusion drawn from it are another. Agenda-based science is not science. It is evidence-gathering for a pre-formed conclusion.

 

[Douggro]

Fortunately, or perhaps unfortunately for my future-alkie self, I was always *just* ahead of the rising age requirement to drink -- it was 18 when I turned 18; it rose to 19 about 3-4 months after i turned 19, and so on, until it hit 21... I was always old enough to drink, once I hit 18. But knowing my own very-early addiction to alcohol... I think I'd have found a way, even if I hadn't been old enough -- when I was at Lowry AFB in 1980, the only thing Colorado allowed for 18-20 yr olds was 3.2% beer -- but I found enough airmen who were old enough to buy me Tanqueray.

Andria

I toed the waters of becoming an alcoholic when I was 20. Failing relationship with my fiance at the time, etc. Liquid lunches and a stop at the bar before going home.
A near-and-dear friend broke it down to a simple question for me: "Who's in control: you, or the bottle?" I got the point.

 

[zoiDman]

I try to judge every study by its actual merit, not just its conclusions. However, when there is a news story about a "study" prior to any indication that the study has actually been published, then I assume it's a case of:

Agreed.

I think there is also Blurred Line between the Intent of a "study" by a it's Authors and how the Media will Spin the Results to an Uninformed Public.

This Spin is sometimes Unintended. But Many Times it is Exactly what is Desired.

 

[AndriaD]

I toed the waters of becoming an alcoholic when I was 20. Failing relationship with my fiance at the time, etc. Liquid lunches and a stop at the bar before going home.
A near-and-dear friend broke it down to a simple question for me: "Who's in control: you, or the bottle?" I got the point.

I've been around alcoholics all my life, raised by them, etc.. but that's no safeguard; I was firmly convinced that *I could handle it* (denial being one of the chief hallmarks of the disease!)... until my hangovers were lasting 3 days, and from a previous stint in rehab, I understand that meant that my liver was very definitely starting to NOT handle it... the last hangover was so severe, it could be classified as DTs... and that finally did it for me, considering that I was at that time the mother of a 4 yr old; I couldn't bear the idea of leaving him motherless, which I definitely would have done, if I had not stopped right then. I also couldn't bear the idea of him growing up as terrified of me as I was of my own alcoholic mother, so the choice was very clear.

Andria

 

[YoursTruli]

Color me skeptical. Collected data is one thing. Methodology used and the conclusion drawn from it are another. Agenda-based science is not science. It is evidence-gathering for a pre-formed conclusion.

All studies are agenda based.... so are you saying no studies are science based?

 

[Mazinny]

I try to judge every study by its actual merit, not just its conclusions. However, when there is a news story about a "study" prior to any indication that the study has actually been published, then I assume it's a case of:

published here. paywall though.

http://www.drugandalcoholdependence.com/article/S0376-8716(15)01826-8/fulltext

Funding for the research was provided by the New England Mental Illness Research Education Clinical, Centers, the Department of Veterans Affairs, the National Institute for Drug Abuse, and FDA Center for Tobacco Products.

http://news.yale.edu/2016/01/12/alcohol-e-cigs-can-affect-motor-skills-yale-study-shows

 

[Douggro]

All studies are agenda based.... so are you saying no studies are science based?

Oiy.. Dancing with the taxonomy of "study" and "agenda" again…
Science starts with a simple question, like "Why is the sky blue?" then seeks an answer. Hypothesis is tested and proven or disproven. Agenda-driven? Yes, seeking the answer to the question. By the same token, if I have an agenda driven by some other need to prove a view or point, science becomes an evidence-gathering tool.

It's that distinction of either trying to answer a question without bias versus trying to prove a point that separates the results.

 

[YoursTruli]

Oiy.. Dancing with the taxonomy of "study" and "agenda" again…
Science starts with a simple question, like "Why is the sky blue?" then seeks an answer. Hypothesis is tested and proven or disproven. Agenda-driven? Yes, seeking the answer to the question. By the same token, if I have an agenda driven by some other need to prove a view or point, science becomes an evidence-gathering tool.

It's that distinction of either trying to answer a question without bias versus trying to prove a point that separates the results.

I would argue all studies are to prove or disprove something and bias based studies can well turn out to prove preconceived notions wrong. With the plethora of studies regarding all aspects of e cigarettes (due to the immense amount of funding now hitting the scientific stream mainly from the FDA and NIH) this will take years, meanwhile there will be plenty of junk science and valid research being done.
I would also argue in studies such as this one, if said ingredients were not present in eliquids we would not be reading this study.

 

[Douggro]

I would argue all studies are to prove or disprove something and bias based studies can well turn out to prove preconceived notions wrong. With the plethora of studies regarding all aspects of e cigarettes (due to the immense amount of funding now hitting the scientific stream mainly from the FDA and NIH) this will take years, meanwhile there will be plenty of junk science and valid research being done.
I would also argue in studies such as this one, if said ingredients were not present in eliquids we would not be reading this study.

Yes, if they had a null result, they'd have nothing to publish worthy of note. But like the Harvard study, they did FIND it (in laughable amounts, mind you) and that becomes newsworthy.
I love science when it's done properly, and abhor it when done improperly.