Now we have to worry about booze in our vapes.

[DorianC]

File it into the "Headline for the sake of notice" file.
Anything popular will get unwanted attention, pet rocks had their sensational headlines too.

 

[zoiDman]

Oiy.. Dancing with the taxonomy of "study" and "agenda" again…
Science starts with a simple question, like "Why is the sky blue?" then seeks an answer. Hypothesis is tested and proven or disproven. Agenda-driven? Yes, seeking the answer to the question. By the same token, if I have an agenda driven by some other need to prove a view or point, science becomes an evidence-gathering tool.

It's that distinction of either trying to answer a question without bias versus trying to prove a point that separates the results.

Here's the Disconnect.

Study Methodology yielding Verifiable and Repeatable Results <=> Media Representation of a "Study".

Take this articles Title...

Alcohol in e-cigs can affect motor skills, Yale study shows

Implied Inclusion of All e-Cigarettes.
An Implied Proven Conclusion.
Abbreviation of the word "e-Cigarettes" to "e-Cigs".
Name dropping of Yale to foster credibility.

Now take this Picture...

Gee, kinda looks like this Dude is Under the Influence and 2 Days out of Rehab. Was that the Intent? BTW - Does the Vapor in this photo looked Photo Shopped?

Now the Body of the Article...

"Some commercially available e-cigarettes contain enough alcohol to impact motor skills, a new Yale University School of Medicine study shows."

Wow. A Pretty Concrete Conclusion. Omitted of course was the Quantitative Value of "some". And what Level of Motor Impairment is being accessed.

"E-cigarettes deliver nicotine by vaporizing liquids, which often contain alcohol and other chemicals in addition to nicotine. In the new study, published in the journal Drug and Alcohol Dependence, researchers tested subjects who used two commercially available e-cigarettes with liquids containing either high (23.5%) or low (0.4%) amounts of alcohol."

Cool. So where is the Link to "Study" so readers can Evaluate the Study for themselves?

"While neither group reported feeling differently after inhaling vapor, the group who used e-cigarettes with the high alcohol level performed more poorly on psychomotor tests and in some instances also had detectable levels of alcohol in their urine."

What is the Scientific Definition of "more poorly"? And these Detectable Levels of alcohol in participants urine, how do they Compare to someone who has ingested Soy Sauce in the last Hour?

"About 75% of the commercial e-cigarette liquids tested in the study contained less than 1% alcohol. However, the authors note some e-cig users create their own liquids with higher alcohol content and that almost nothing is known about the prevalence and patterns of using e-liquids that contain alcohol."

If nothing is Know, is this statement Relevant to the "study"? Or is this just a way in interject the "Mystery Factor"?

"The researchers also said it was possible that the presence of alcohol might reinforce the addictive properties of both nicotine and alcohol if inhaled."

Have been waiting for someone to Play the Addiction Card. It was only a Matter of time. And saying something is Possible is a Great Way to do it. Because just about Anything is Possible.

" 'Given the widespread and unregulated use of e-cigarettes, especially by youth and other vulnerable populations, further studies are needed to evaluate both the acute safety and long-term health risks of using alcohol-containing e-cigarettes,' said Mehmet Sofuoglu, of Yale’s Department of Psychiatry and VA Connecticut Healthcare system, who is senior author of the paper."

Couldn't agree more. Grant Money for Research should Never been turned down. And it is Always better to leave things Open-Ended to promote Future Research.

"Gerald Valentine of Yale is first author of the paper. Other Yale authors include Peter Jatlow, Marcedes Coffman, Haleh Nadim, and Ralitza Gueorguieva."

Nice of them to Include the Primary Author and the Contributors in the absence of the "Study" link.

"Funding for the research was provided by the New England Mental Illness Research Education Clinical, Centers, the Department of Veterans Affairs, the National Institute for Drug Abuse, and FDA Center for tobacco Products."

Just a Hypothetical Question: If "Motor Impairment" could not have been somehow reported, do you think the Funders would have Pushed to have this "Study" published? Or even done in the 1st Place?

---

So what do we Have and what did we Learn from this Article? Not Much. Seems like it is Better suited for an Op-Ed piece. Verses some Vague .......ization of what is supposed to be "Science".

But we have a Great Piece for the Media to Run with.

In in the Absence of any Real Sum or Substance, one would Question if that was not the Primary Intent?

 

[crxess]

Is there nothing else besides ethyl alcohol in the flavoring ? Where does the vanilla taste come from ?

20-30 % seems a lot. I have just started to follow some FA diy threads, and very rarely do they have more than 7 % flavoring in the formulas, often far less.

I can attest to 20%-30% and even 35% Flavor mixes as I have a save file of hundreds of recipes, some which will never be used due to High Flavoring levels.

Our (ECF's) own @Bill's Magic Vapor (IIRC), has released many Recipes exceeding 20%-30%.

Just an FYI

 

[Lessifer]

published here. paywall though.

http://www.drugandalcoholdependence.com/article/S0376-8716(15)01826-8/fulltext

Funding for the research was provided by the New England Mental Illness Research Education Clinical, Centers, the Department of Veterans Affairs, the National Institute for Drug Abuse, and FDA Center for Tobacco Products.

Alcohol in e-cigs can affect motor skills, Yale study shows

Thanks for the links, the actual study page won't even load due to my corporate security policy, so I can't even see the pay wall that I wouldn't be able to get beyond. So we still don't know the methodology used, or the actual quantifiable results.

In the absence of that information, I think it's important to look at what is being said as well as what is not being said. The article author makes no attempt to describe the LEVEL of impairment, and of course we have no way of knowing, without paying to read the actual study, what steps were taken to account for other sources of motor skill impairment.

One piece of information that was included was "and in some instances also had detectable levels of alcohol in their urine." and I think it is very important in the WAY that this was said. I could be reading more into it than is there, but it seems like these particular results were possibly not uniform, as in not all users had detectable levels in their urine after using the high content liquid, or possibly even some using lower content liquid had detectable levels, which would beg the question of how they controlled for outside contamination.

There is a reason why studies are supposed to include methodology, results, and then conclusions. If you only include the conclusions, like in this article, there is no way to determine if they are actually a result of the study.

Here's the Disconnect.

Study Methodology yielding Verifiable and Repeatable Results <=> Media Representation of a "Study".

Take this articles Title...

Alcohol in e-cigs can affect motor skills, Yale study shows

Implied Inclusion of All e-Cigarettes.
An Implied Proven Conclusion.
Abbreviation of the word "e-Cigarettes" to "e-Cigs".
Name dropping of Yale to foster credibility.

Now take this Picture...

Gee, kinda looks like this Dude is Under the Influence and 2 Days out of Rehab. Was that the Intent? BTW - Does the Vapor in this photo looked Photo Shopped?

Now the Body of the Article...

"Some commercially available e-cigarettes contain enough alcohol to impact motor skills, a new Yale University School of Medicine study shows."

Wow. A Pretty Concrete Conclusion. Omitted of course was the Quantitative Value of "some". And what Level of Motor Impairment is being accessed.

"E-cigarettes deliver nicotine by vaporizing liquids, which often contain alcohol and other chemicals in addition to nicotine. In the new study, published in the journal Drug and Alcohol Dependence, researchers tested subjects who used two commercially available e-cigarettes with liquids containing either high (23.5%) or low (0.4%) amounts of alcohol."

Cool. So where is the Link to "Study" so readers can Evaluate the Study for themselves?

"While neither group reported feeling differently after inhaling vapor, the group who used e-cigarettes with the high alcohol level performed more poorly on psychomotor tests and in some instances also had detectable levels of alcohol in their urine."

What is the Scientific Definition of "more poorly"? And these Detectable Levels of alcohol in participants urine, how do they Compare to someone who has ingested Soy Sauce in the last Hour?

"About 75% of the commercial e-cigarette liquids tested in the study contained less than 1% alcohol. However, the authors note some e-cig users create their own liquids with higher alcohol content and that almost nothing is known about the prevalence and patterns of using e-liquids that contain alcohol."

If nothing is Know, is this statement Relevant to the "study"? Or is this just a way in interject the "Mystery Factor"?

"The researchers also said it was possible that the presence of alcohol might reinforce the addictive properties of both nicotine and alcohol if inhaled."

Have been waiting for someone to Play the Addiction Card. It was only a Matter of time. And saying something is Possible is a Great Way to do it. Because just about Anything is Possible.

" 'Given the widespread and unregulated use of e-cigarettes, especially by youth and other vulnerable populations, further studies are needed to evaluate both the acute safety and long-term health risks of using alcohol-containing e-cigarettes,' said Mehmet Sofuoglu, of Yale’s Department of Psychiatry and VA Connecticut Healthcare system, who is senior author of the paper."

Couldn't agree more. Grant Money for Research should Never been turned down. And it is Always better to leave things Open-Ended to promote Future Research.

"Gerald Valentine of Yale is first author of the paper. Other Yale authors include Peter Jatlow, Marcedes Coffman, Haleh Nadim, and Ralitza Gueorguieva."

Nice of them to Include the Primary Author and the Contributors in the absence of the "Study" link.

"Funding for the research was provided by the New England Mental Illness Research Education Clinical, Centers, the Department of Veterans Affairs, the National Institute for Drug Abuse, and FDA Center for Tobacco Products."

Just a Hypothetical Question: If "Motor Impairment" could not have been somehow reported, do you think the Funders would have Pushed to have this "Study" published? Or even done in the 1st Place?

---

So what do we Have and what did we Learn from this Article? Not Much. Seems like it is Better suited for an Op-Ed piece. Verses some Vague .......ization of what is supposed to be "Science".

But we have a Great Piece for the Media to Run with.

In in the Absence of any Real Sum or Substance, one would Question if that was not the Primary Intent?

Excellent analysis. Was about to do this myself, now I don't have to

It seems like a lot of "research" these days is a result of grant shopping, which I understand(even if I hate it), because institutions have to fill their budgets somehow.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Excellent analysis. Was about to do this myself, now I don't have to

It seems like a lot of "research" these days is a result of grant shopping, which I understand(even if I hate it), because institutions have to fill their budgets somehow.

I think what Ticks Me Off the Most is where this is coming from.

If this had come from East Overshoe Community College, or it was just a Regurgitation of something the Huffington Post took off the Wire, that would be One Thing. But this is a Yale Publication?

Say What?

Yale has a Long, Time Honored, History of being a Pillar of Higher Education. Guess that Pillar has gotten Significantly Shorter in last couple of Generations.

If this is the kinda of Tripe that is Expectable to Write. But More So, Expectable for an Editor/Communications Department to Allow to be Published.

 

[Mazinny]

I can attest to 20%-30% and even 35% Flavor mixes as I have a save file of hundreds of recipes, some which will never be used due to High Flavoring levels.

Our (ECF's) own @Bill's Magic Vapor (IIRC), has released many Recipes exceeding 20%-30%.

Just an FYI

ty ! I guess there is a difference in strength between TFA and FA flavorings then. Formulas i've seen with FA flavorings use a considerable amount less flavoring.

 

[WattWick]

Is it OK if I don't worry about booze in my vape? Or is this mandatory?

 

[Racehorse]

If I had to guess, about 23.75%.

Nastiest stuff I ever had "airing" on my counter. I guess it's for people who love love love a strong chemical taste in their ejuice.

 

[Bunnykiller]

now we have to worry about our atties exploding from ethanol vapor ignition

 

[Plumes.91]

Now take this Picture...

Gee, kinda looks like this Dude is Under the Influence and 2 Days out of Rehab. Was that the Intent? BTW - Does the Vapor in this photo looked Photo Shopped?

HEY! I resemble that remark!!! Well, I resemble that man... We've similar beard styles & chin bone structure. If he had a smaller/rounder nose & shorter hair we could be twinsies. & I am most-certainly NOT 2 days out of rehab! In fact, I refuse to go all together!!

 

[AndriaD]

I can attest to 20%-30% and even 35% Flavor mixes as I have a save file of hundreds of recipes, some which will never be used due to High Flavoring levels.

Our (ECF's) own @Bill's Magic Vapor (IIRC), has released many Recipes exceeding 20%-30%.

Just an FYI

My ADV for more than a year now is somewhere between 29.5% and 31% flavoring -- depending on which iteration of the recipe I'm currently mixing -- the 31% naturally causes a lot more gunking, and sometimes I get tired of that and mix the 29.5% version.

Andria

 

[Lessifer]

My ADV for more than a year now is somewhere between 29.5% and 31% flavoring -- depending on which iteration of the recipe I'm currently mixing -- the 31% naturally causes a lot more gunking, and sometimes I get tired of that and mix the 29.5% version.

Andria

I believe, in general though nowhere near universally, tootle puffer gear lends itself more to higher flavor concentrations. Unless you're one of those people who likes unflavored or lightly flavored.

 

[crxess]

ty ! I guess there is a difference in strength between TFA and FA flavorings then. Formulas i've seen with FA flavorings use a considerable amount less flavoring.

Actually, I have some VZ SC Flavorings that Max at 3%, much less if used in a blend

Yea, some of FW is like juice in a bottle. Takes way to much to do anything

TFA - most are anywhere from 6%-15% Single with a couple that are SC strength. I'd much rather pay for Flavoring than Carrier

 

[AndriaD]

I believe, in general though nowhere near universally, tootle puffer gear lends itself more to higher flavor concentrations. Unless you're one of those people who likes unflavored or lightly flavored.

I suppose I might get to lightly flavored at some point, I dunno; I've always had a vast sweet tooth, though less so than when I was a kid until my late 20s or so. My husband enjoys unsweetened tea, which boggles my mind -- to me, tea without sugar tastes like extremely bitter water. I stopped using so much sugar in coffee when I was pregnant; for some reason, i *craved* coffee, so I drank decaf, with just a little sugar and a whole lot of milk, and that's still how I drink it now, if I drink it at all -- never in the morning, hot tea for me, but sometimes after a big meal and dessert, a nice cup of decaf is appealing.

I think my tastebuds are still somewhat comatose though, which is why I enjoy such strongly-flavored and sweet ejuice; until I started making this strawberry & cream, I didn't really taste ejuice at all; it was mostly just a nice smell. This 30% flavoring juice, I can actually taste.

Andria

 

[Mazinny]

Actually, I have some VZ SC Flavorings that Max at 3%, much less if used in a blend

Yea, some of FW is like juice in a bottle. Takes way to much to do anything

TFA - most are anywhere from 6%-15% Single with a couple that are SC strength. I'd much rather pay for Flavoring than Carrier

This is the thread i was reading. Almost all the recipes are in the 3 % to 7 % range
Pure Vapes has 3ml FlavourArt flavorings

 

[Douggro]

Here's the Disconnect.

Study Methodology yielding Verifiable and Repeatable Results <=> Media Representation of a "Study".

Take this articles Title...

Alcohol in e-cigs can affect motor skills, Yale study shows

Implied Inclusion of All e-Cigarettes.
An Implied Proven Conclusion.
Abbreviation of the word "e-Cigarettes" to "e-Cigs".
Name dropping of Yale to foster credibility.

Now take this Picture...

Gee, kinda looks like this Dude is Under the Influence and 2 Days out of Rehab. Was that the Intent? BTW - Does the Vapor in this photo looked Photo Shopped?

Now the Body of the Article...

"Some commercially available e-cigarettes contain enough alcohol to impact motor skills, a new Yale University School of Medicine study shows."

Wow. A Pretty Concrete Conclusion. Omitted of course was the Quantitative Value of "some". And what Level of Motor Impairment is being accessed.

"E-cigarettes deliver nicotine by vaporizing liquids, which often contain alcohol and other chemicals in addition to nicotine. In the new study, published in the journal Drug and Alcohol Dependence, researchers tested subjects who used two commercially available e-cigarettes with liquids containing either high (23.5%) or low (0.4%) amounts of alcohol."

Cool. So where is the Link to "Study" so readers can Evaluate the Study for themselves?

"While neither group reported feeling differently after inhaling vapor, the group who used e-cigarettes with the high alcohol level performed more poorly on psychomotor tests and in some instances also had detectable levels of alcohol in their urine."

What is the Scientific Definition of "more poorly"? And these Detectable Levels of alcohol in participants urine, how do they Compare to someone who has ingested Soy Sauce in the last Hour?

"About 75% of the commercial e-cigarette liquids tested in the study contained less than 1% alcohol. However, the authors note some e-cig users create their own liquids with higher alcohol content and that almost nothing is known about the prevalence and patterns of using e-liquids that contain alcohol."

If nothing is Know, is this statement Relevant to the "study"? Or is this just a way in interject the "Mystery Factor"?

"The researchers also said it was possible that the presence of alcohol might reinforce the addictive properties of both nicotine and alcohol if inhaled."

Have been waiting for someone to Play the Addiction Card. It was only a Matter of time. And saying something is Possible is a Great Way to do it. Because just about Anything is Possible.

" 'Given the widespread and unregulated use of e-cigarettes, especially by youth and other vulnerable populations, further studies are needed to evaluate both the acute safety and long-term health risks of using alcohol-containing e-cigarettes,' said Mehmet Sofuoglu, of Yale’s Department of Psychiatry and VA Connecticut Healthcare system, who is senior author of the paper."

Couldn't agree more. Grant Money for Research should Never been turned down. And it is Always better to leave things Open-Ended to promote Future Research.

"Gerald Valentine of Yale is first author of the paper. Other Yale authors include Peter Jatlow, Marcedes Coffman, Haleh Nadim, and Ralitza Gueorguieva."

Nice of them to Include the Primary Author and the Contributors in the absence of the "Study" link.

"Funding for the research was provided by the New England Mental Illness Research Education Clinical, Centers, the Department of Veterans Affairs, the National Institute for Drug Abuse, and FDA Center for Tobacco Products."

Just a Hypothetical Question: If "Motor Impairment" could not have been somehow reported, do you think the Funders would have Pushed to have this "Study" published? Or even done in the 1st Place?

---

So what do we Have and what did we Learn from this Article? Not Much. Seems like it is Better suited for an Op-Ed piece. Verses some Vague .......ization of what is supposed to be "Science".

But we have a Great Piece for the Media to Run with.

In in the Absence of any Real Sum or Substance, one would Question if that was not the Primary Intent?

I had to step away to attend to my work, but my thanks to you, @Lessifer, @crxess, @Mazinny and everyone else for your posts. Each of you has touched on very pertinent matters related to how these studies are being driven by external forces, many times for no other purpose than to maintain grant funding, other times to have some notable output worthy of publication and attention. It's a sad commentary when students in higher education pursuing degrees in the Sciences are practically obligated to devote almost as much study to the mechanisms of funding and grant application writing and processes as they are to their intended field of science. Perhaps a course in Ethics and Responsibility should also be mandatory.

 

[Lessifer]

I had to step away to attend to my work, but my thanks to you, @Lessifer, @crxess, @Mazinny and everyone else for your posts. Each of you has touched on very pertinent matters related to how these studies are being driven by external forces, many times for no other purpose than to maintain grant funding, other times to have some notable output worthy of publication and attention. It's a sad commentary when students in higher education pursuing degrees in the Sciences are practically obligated to devote almost as much study to the mechanisms of funding and grant application writing and processes as they are to their intended field of science. Perhaps a course in Ethics and Responsibility should also be mandatory.

From what I hear, academia is now very much "publish or die."

 

[Danousa]

Hmm, I noticed that if in hyper-ventilate I get impaired. If I hold my breath too long I get impaired. I am willing to bet that if studies were done, breathing air, and drinking water would be found to cause cancer.

 

[Douggro]

From what I hear, academia is now very much "publish or die."

That would be a very adequate description based on my understanding as well. And, of course, it is all the better if you publish and it gets picked up by the mainstream media.

 

[Douggro]

Hmm, I noticed that if in hyper-ventilate I get impaired. If I hold my breath too long I get impaired. I am willing to bet that if studies were done, breathing air, and drinking water would be found to cause cancer.

You forgot to mention eating.