Numb, tingly hands, funny electric shock feeling when you bend your head to your chest?

[Automaton]

Indeed. And I think that is really all we can base vaping/not vaping on at this point in time. Our own situations, and what that hidden board could potentially mean for us. If I was much older with more risk from smoking? I might just get on with vaping, though I may also try to do it in such a way as to minimise the theoretical risks, based upon where we currently think they are most likely to come from with the information we do have.

I'm lucky not only to be young (statistically, I do indeed have a decade before smoking does any permanent damage), but also to have the kind of genetics I do. A family full of life-long smokers who never suffer from anything worse than a bit of asthma. People in my family either die of old age, or flamboyant recklessness. And sometimes they live to old age despite a lifetime of flamboyant recklessness. The worst thing I have to worry about in the mid-term future is gum disease.

I am definitely a shades of gray person, as a rule. No doubt smoking is harmful, even for someone with my genetics. My smoker family isn't dropping dead, but I'd like to see them try to run a mile. But I also have a couple friends with 2 smoker/ex-smoker parents who both got or died of smoking-related cancer.

But I do think there is a social stigma-based campaign that exaggerates the harms of smoking, or at least applies them more thickly and indiscriminately than is the reality. It depends on a million different factors, and I remember railing about that even before I was a smoker, when I was doing my homework and realized how twisted around the public anti-smoking campaign really is.

Likewise, I think the FDA fear campaign is wrong in an incredible way. They're wrong in a way that dismisses the potentially huge social and health impact of vaping if it is guided and researched well in the coming decade. What a foolish thing for them to do. What a blatantly irresponsible thing for them to do.

But likewise, I wish I saw more critical discussion in the vaping world itself. I wish I saw fewer people dismissing symptoms on the Health section of this forum. That is equally foolish and irresponsible.

I guess I'm trying to learn how to play the long game. I guess that's sort of ambitious given the brevity of my life. That's something people spend 50 years working on. But you're right - it's not failure, and there's plenty more time for me to figure out my long game.

 

[shanagan]

Now I'll tell you my biggest concerns with vaping because no one seems to be looking at it. The flavoring. That does bother me because there are a couple substances that are known to be harmful in some flavorings. There is at least some information on inhaling the PG, VG and nic but, the flavorings are a closed book and I'm willing to bet that some of them are harmful. Hard to say they are more harmful than tobacco though.

Trust me, that's what this concern is all about, the flavorings. Judging by your join date you've possibly missed the discussions on diacetyl, which thankfully we were able to get removed - or if not removed altogether at least "promised" to be removed - from most suppliers. And I've mentioned in this thread that the diketones in general may not be a good bet for vapor inhalation - one flavoring I mentioned is hexanedione (a diketone) which gives a buttery/nutty/creamy flavor to foods and is of course food-safe. But inhaled it can cause neurological problems. As I've said also in the thread - I am NOT aware of anyone using hexanedione - but sooner or later someone could easily pick up a bottle and use it for the buttery/creamy/nutty flavor in vape. In fact, if there isn't at least one person using it now I'd be surprised - because it's a readily available flavoring, and why wouldn't they? And that's just one known/studied diketone. Diacetyl is another that has been proven unsafe to inhale in other applications (I won't start the debate here, but will allow that we don't know if it's safe to inhale via vaping) but up until several months ago, it was a common flavoring agent, even though in other applications it's been proven to cause irreversible lung disease.

And the point is that it's not just hard to say whether they're more harmful - it's impossible to say if they are more, the same, or less harmful than tobacco - but say that on the boards and it's as if you've kicked someone's puppy.

 

[slumdog]

vaping is better than smoking.......ok prove it............thats what I thought...noone really knows.....and just like cigarettes it may be 50 years before we realize the dangers of what we have done...I do feel better, but that could be due to the fact that I stopped smoking, and vaping just hasn't caught up with me yet....I no longer have the need or want ..to smoke and have started to realize I really don't even need my pv which I think is great...I used to pick it up even when I didn't want it just because it tasted so well...but thank you for this thread that brought me back to reality and made me realize that just because I feel better, doesn't mean I am better, and to believe this blindly would be the greatest injustice I could force upon myself....

 

[LynGBH]

I've also noticed that when my hands or legs are bended they get pins and needles feeling much faster and in positions that would not normally call for that. It's only become present since I started vaping, so there is likely a correlation.

I'm dealing with this exact same symptom, not to mention serious edema. I'm vaping less, but I haven't given it up altogether. I don't want to go back to smoking. I think I'll pick up some patches, vape no-nic and taper down. I'm 49 and nicotine simply isn't worth the risk anymore.

 

[shanagan]

Lyn. (plus, hi!)

 

[Nixsdaddy]

I really hate replying on these sort of threads, but here it goes.

We know these flavorings are mostly used in the food industry. Candies, cakes, and that massive list goes on and on. How many particles of food from powdered candies, or anything that we consume, goes into our lungs? How many times did we open a bag of artificially flavored popcorn and inhale that smell into our lungs? And this doesn't take into account our vaping!

(this will sound gross) When a toilet is flushed, water/bacteria particles can travel in the air up to 10 feet to be inhaled by someone. Open a bag of popcorn, and those food particles do the exact same thing. Or any food for that matter. If you think about it, the world is not safe for us to live in. But I'm preaching to the choir here.

People have reactions to anything, could of been a flavor, a food, a bug bite, bacteria, whatever. Even before we started smoking, through our childhood we have been exposed to all sorts of airborne/foodborne chemicals, preservatives, bad work environments, etc.... It all boils down to is the individual's willingness to accept a risk. Smoking. we know it's bad. Vaping, not so much... but at least I have felt better vaping than 20 years of smoking. All we can deal with is the here and now. No one knows what the future holds for vaping or anything else.

Cassie, I don't fully know your situation, but you also had environmental changes to go along with your vaping. You moved across the country to AZ, which is a different climate and worked in a place that mixes juice, which is different than just vaping by itself. There are too many factors that could explain your situation. Just because your 21 and having problems does not mean that it because of vaping. You may of been predisposed to such an episode and the environmental stimuli was there to trigger it, slow or fast.

Thank you for listening to my ramblings.

 

[Automaton]

No, there really aren't all kinds of factors. If you read my description, the reaction was pin-pointed to one flavor, within specific periods both of exposure and of duration of symptoms. It doesn't get any less random than that. Even if the environment had some sort of impact on the symptoms, it doesn't negate that they are definitely not the cause.

Please don't dismiss my decision. I do not dismiss anyone else's.

 

[Nixsdaddy]

Cassie, I am not dismissing your decision in any way, I just wish to better understand it. If it was only pin-pointed to a single flavor, then why give up vaping entirely rather than just not vaping that flavor or not using a flavor from a company that produced it? I know that it's your decision whether to vape or not to vape. You have to understand, within that brain of yours is a wealth of knowledge that should be shared.

 

[Automaton]

Cassie, I am not dismissing your decision in any way, I just wish to better understand it. If it was only pin-pointed to a single flavor, then why give up vaping entirely rather than just not vaping that flavor or not using a flavor from a company that produced it? I know that it's your decision whether to vape or not to vape. You have to understand, within that brain of yours is a wealth of knowledge that should be shared.

That's the thing. Everyone keeps assuming I know something they don't. That isn't the case. There is simply no information available.

I stopped because I don't know what the threshold for symptoms is. Chemically, there are other flavors similar to it - just more or this, less of that, etc. They may just be under the threshold to cause immediate symptoms, but that doesn't mean they aren't doing anything bad. I don't know if my symptoms meant something bad was going on in a way that was cumulative over time, rather than dissipating after use was stopped.

But because I don't know that, and the chances of either possibility is equally strong, it isn't worth the risk when combined with my other factors.

 

[GiMante]

Well isn't all of this a complete 180. If you weren't so argumentative a few months ago, right before you moved to AZ. This thread wouldn't make me so ...... off.

 

[Automaton]

Well isn't all of this a complete 180. If you weren't so argumentative a few months ago, right before you moved to AZ. This thread wouldn't make me so ...... off.

I never was, that's the thing. All that's changed is my personal action, not my stance.

My stance has always been that we don't know anything. I simply spoke out about the antagonistic attitude, and the proclamations of things way beyond what we currently know. I still am.

Nothin's changed.

 

[Tracy68]

Well I don't know. After a recent break from vaping due to what I thought was a VG allergy (maybe the sulfites added?) I'm now testing PG as an alternative. (alternating with smoking cigarettes as I'm not ready to do a complete switch)
So far there's no rash or pronounced flushing/burning on my face or gassy tummy troubles as I experienced with the VG but I'm getting this really disconcerting sensation of patches of numbness on my cheeks - mainly my right cheek. Sometimes it's been on my chin too.
It's very slight but enough for me to be aware of it and it comes and goes but I'm pretty sure it coincides with the times I vape.
I googled "numb spots on face and anxiety" and sure enough it's there on the list.
I've always been an anxious person and I've always had weird symptoms crop up in one form or another and put it down to anxiety or stress.
I honestly don't know what to do.
I feel I can't move ahead and stop smoking entirely and take up vaping fulltime again because a part of me is obviously a bit freaked out now about possible side effects.
I feel it would be useless to even discuss this with my doctor because they don't know anything about vaping and would probably automatically assume it is the cause.
So I'm kind of in limbo here and beginning to think I'm turning into a nut case. I probably sound like one, lol!
If I completely stop vaping again and this weird numbness goes away then it could be either that vaping itself is a direct cause OR that my anxiety surrounding vaping is the cause - therefore either way I won't really know for sure.
Please don't get me wrong. I really REALLY want vaping to be the answer for me. I hate smoking but I really don't think I'll ever be able to quit going cold turkey.

 

[MsBree]

I've learned that our mind can very easily play 'head games' with us, and when we're not feeling well and experiencing symptoms new to us, we tend to blame it on the 'new' thing in our lives! TRUE TRUE...we do NOT know long-term effects of vaping, but the proof I've experienced the last 6 months, and all the countless threads on this forum I've been through, it appears the positive is certainly outweighing the negative, at this point!

From my own personal experience, I believe that smoking tobacco cigarettes can hide physical health issues because we are so toxic. Once the 'smoke has passed', our bodies are able to breathe again while we detox. This time period can be different for everyone! For me, I've been experiencing physical symptoms since November of 2007, long before I quit smoking. It was a rollercoaster of symptoms too, that I do not want to get into! So after I quit smoking in November of last year, my body began to detox and even more strange symptoms arose these last few months. At first, the ONLY thing I could blame on these new symptoms was something to do with vaping...what else could it be?

Fearful of being put in a position to go back to tobacco cigs, anxiety crept up even more. Was it the PG...was it the VG....was it the flavoring...am I vaping too much....is my nic not low enough (12mg at the time)....could there be something in my eGo batteries....could it be the solder in the CE2.....questions, questions, questions! I also had the limb numbness and tingly body parts too! It wasn't until I landed in the hospital this month (almost 3 weeks ago) from Vertigo, that I decided it was time to find out exactly what was wrong with me these last 3-1/2 years! So my ND ordered mega testing.....diagnosis?....Lyme Disease! Yes, Lyme Disease!!!!

So what I'm getting at here is we need to stop blaming the unknown...find a GOOD doctor (preferably holistic as an ND), and start working towards finding out what the UNDERLYING issue is...the root cause of these symptoms!!! A 'not-so-good, uncaring' doctor will just deal with the symptoms!

At this point, I'm thrilled that vaping is NOT an issue for me TODAY, and BTW, my chest x-ray in the hospital came back CLEAR!!!!!....first time in many, many years!!!!! I may not be happy with my diagnosis, but at least I know where all these symptoms have been coming from the last 3-1/2 years, and I can begin the process of getting rid of it! For all of you who are curious, google 'symptoms of lyme' disease....you'll be surprised what you learn, and how more common this is than people realize!!!

 

[deback]

But I do think there is a social stigma-based campaign that exaggerates the harms of smoking, or at least applies them more thickly and indiscriminately than is the reality. It depends on a million different factors, and I remember railing about that even before I was a smoker, when I was doing my homework and realized how twisted around the public anti-smoking campaign really is.

In my opinion, the harms of smoking are not exaggerated and are not "twisted around" in any of the public anti-smoking and social stigma-based campaigns. When I was a smoker (for 42 years) prior to September 16, 2010, I might have agreed with your "current" opinion related to smoking, but now that I no longer cough, no longer have chronic bronchitis, and can breathe almost normally again (something I haven't been able to do since I was 16), I have to disagree with you. But, of course, I have the benefit of 42 years of constant (and sometimes, heavy) smoking upon which to base my opinions -- and the long-term, permanent effects of internal inflammation, which I'm sure are caused from smoking for so long.

I would be very interested in knowing your symptoms and the particular flavor that caused those symptoms. I've read this entire thread and didn't find where you mentioned those two pertinent facts. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to hear the specific reasons why you quit vaping.

 

[Automaton]

In my opinion, the harms of smoking are not exaggerated and are not "twisted around" in any of the public anti-smoking and social stigma-based campaigns. When I was a smoker (for 42 years) prior to September 16, 2010, I might have agreed with your "current" opinion related to smoking, but now that I no longer cough, no longer have chronic bronchitis, and can breathe almost normally again (something I haven't been able to do since I was 16), I have to disagree with you. But, of course, I have the benefit of 42 years of constant (and sometimes, heavy) smoking upon which to base my opinions -- and the long-term, permanent effects of internal inflammation, which I'm sure are caused from smoking for so long.

I would be very interested in knowing your symptoms and the particular flavor that caused those symptoms. I've read this entire thread and didn't find where you mentioned those two pertinent facts. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to hear the specific reasons why you quit vaping.

My position on that has remained consistent since years before I ever smoked, through-out the time I did, once I stopped, and it still is now in my on-again-off-again state. It is not a matter trying to justify my, or anyone else's smoking. No one needs any justification for the things they do to themselves.

In short, it started with me doing homework for a paper related to public smoking laws. After reading the methodology of the WHO study on second-hand smoke and other oft-cited sources, I found it to be a bit sloppy. Further research confirmed my distrust of it. I started smoking at an uncommonly late age - I was 19 - so this was 3-4 years before I began smoking. During this period of my life, I was actively engaged in trying to get my dad to quit smoking, so it was not a matter of being pro-smoking. Periodically I revisited the issue, as I am very politically involved, and I always came to the same conclusion.

I am not claiming to know what the truth of the matter is, and I am not claiming there are no harms from second-hand smoke whatsoever.

Additionally, nearly any illness or cause of death in a current or former smoker is blamed on smoking, even if there is absolutely no evidence that a given illness is connected to smoking.

I am not claiming there is no harm from smoking, or that there aren't harms of smoking we may not fully understand yet.

I am simply claiming that there is a social campaign that seems to be sacrificing facts for social stigma, to some degree. To what degree I do not know.

I have said repeatedly why I quit vaping.

 

[JonesJustJones]

ok now I am scared, guess I go back to my old habit smoking old school cigarettes....

 

[jamie]

I would be very interested in knowing your symptoms and the particular flavor that caused those symptoms. I've read this entire thread and didn't find where you mentioned those two pertinent facts.

Same here.

 

[Automaton]

Yeah, well, I'm not inclined to go into it. I've tried repeatedly to explain why that is, and anyone who spends half a second thinking about my position should get it, but if people will insist on feeling entitled to things they are not, then the new answer is just "no."

So, no.

Ok?

 

[slumdog]

Wow, this thread turned a bit abrasive..no one here is threatening anyones way of life or condemning their choices. Just making personal ones and deciding to share because that's what a forum is about..I believe someone said the mind can be a powerful thing... So I implore you to think about the fact that there are as many different realities as there are people and the human mind can cause symptoms that cannot be defined by any medical journal or textbook this does not mean that the symptoms are not real to a specific reality or even to many realities...now don't get me wrong, I'm by no means saying that any symptom discussed here is in anyones head just that belief is a very strong thing.. and we are not here to condemn but to discuss and if the individual does not want to discuss it.. Then it should be dropped..... The SS died with Hitler... Display the same respect as you would expect... I think it took courage enough for Cassie to talk about her decision at all, then to have to deal with judgmental posts..

 

[deback]

I'd like to bring this thread back to what it was intended for - to share with others the different problems we might be having with vaping e-liquid.

I certainly don't feel like I'm "entitled" to hear anyone's specific story. If someone doesn't want to share their problems, that's their choice.

Ok, since around the middle of January, after vaping since the middle of September, I started having problems, but I have no idea if they're related to vaping. I'd be interested in others' similar stories.

I started having a bloating and constipation problem (which I've never had before in my life) and also gained about 10 lbs (in my lower abdomen) for no reason. I wasn't eating more than I have all my life. In March, I came down with a nasty cold and flu -- and then fluid and infection in my left ear. I've never had an ear infection or ear problems of any kind in my life. This all lasted for about a month and Keflex got rid of the infection, and the fluid finally was gone after about three weeks. I was still having some bloating, constipation, and mild abdominal cramps during this time.

During the last two or three months, I started having more severe and intermittent abdominal cramps when eating certain foods (about once or twice per week). The pain was (is) in the location of my bladder. When that occurred, I would have to lie in bed all day, usually doubled over, until the cramps finally went away after several hours or the next day. The problem seemed to get worse as time went by.

A week ago today, I went to an urgent care and obtained a prescription for Cipro (The doctor and I both assumed I had a bladder infection). Yesterday, the (now constant) pain was still there, in addition to new pain in my kidney areas, so I went to the ER, they admitted me for overnight, did a CT scan, and then I talked them into letting me go home earlier this afternoon. I now have prescriptions for Flagyl and Bactrim (and am on a soft/liquid diet) - to treat a probable abscess in my sigmoid colon. They are treating it as diverticulitis and told me to come back to the ER, if the problem doesn't go away after 10 days (or follow up with my regular doctor).

The gastroenterologist also said they found a nodule in one of my lungs -- and to follow up with that problem with my regular doctor at some time in the future.

I can't help but wonder if vaping is causing these infections and health problems. There's no way I'll start smoking again, but I'm considering trying to quit vaping. I can say that I've cut down on vaping a lot -- from about 6 mg per day to 2 mg or less per day.

Has anyone else (who is willing to share) had any similar problems with various infections?