Ok All You Original Maker Type People... Knock It Off...!!!

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HauntedMyst

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If a clone is 1:1 with an original and it's 10% of the price, which is often the case, it's an obvious choice unless your corrupted "morality" gets in the way.

Actually, wouldn't it be your lack of "morality" that doesn't get in your way? So far most of your morals seem tied to your wallet. Perhaps one day you will actually create something or make something new which others want to buy. I doubt very much your "morality" would like other people copying what you worked hard to create and then profiting from it. Or perhaps you are just independently wealthy and everything you create goes right to the public domain so you can't understand the concept of intellectual property having value.
 

Feraloxide

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Actually, wouldn't it be your lack of "morality" that doesn't get in your way? So far most of your morals seem tied to your wallet. Perhaps one day you will actually create something or make something new which others want to buy. I doubt very much your "morality" would like other people copying what you worked hard to create and then profiting from it. Or perhaps you are just independently wealthy and everything you create goes right to the public domain so you can't understand the concept of intellectual property having value.

Morality is nothing more than a barrier. I do what benefits me, and I gladly support the makers of clones for providing something nice at such a low price. If I were to create something, which I don't see myself doing, I'd be happy to sell it at a fair price. I see where people like me are coming from, and I'd be glad to help them out too.

It doesn't take much of a brain from today's standard knowledge to improve upon a tube of metal with a switch. If a creator honestly believes a tiny improvement is worth doubling the price, they should deflate their ego.

Feel free to call me Lucifer for not supporting swindling. :vapor:
 

stevegmu

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It isn't surprising the entitlement crowd knows absolutely nothing about working for a living, manufacturing, how business works, intellectual property rights, morality... It is the obligation of business to cater to their price points, or else buying from those who blatantly steal the design of others and sell products based on the reputation of others is their only option, because they are entitled to the mod they can't afford or are not willing to work to buy. It is beneath them to vape with eGos...
 

Maurice Pudlo

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That makes no sense and I'm sorry you feel that way about your own equipment. Perhaps they would be better off in the hands of someone who would actually appreciate them.

No one wants to pay as much as they do for authentics, and if you claim otherwise, you're lying. It makes me wonder if you sort of people would whine if you could no longer throw small fortunes at companies laughing all the way to the bank. Absolutely ridiculous that you'd even compare dumpster diving for food to buying a clone.

In some cases the clones are actually better. For example, a Penny mod clone has a lower voltage drop than the authentic. Clone atomizers often improve on the original design, improved airflow and better juicewells among other things.

If I didn't want to pay what I paid for genuine stuff I wouldn't have paid for it.

I certainly feel worst for buying the entire clone rig than spending substantially more for a single genesis.

It really isn't about how much the stuff costs to me, it isn't even if the clones work as well or better than the original. It's about having what I want.

Nobody lusts after clones, because clones are by their very nature copies of something.

The whole performance argument doesn't hold much water in these arguments simply because very few people are buying strictly based on performance. In our very vain society people purchase more on the aesthetic appeal of a product or its current popularity.

I'm as good an example as any for that, I very much like the look of genesis atomizers in particular ones with visible O-rings, so that's what I will happily spend lots of money on. Similarly I like clean looking tube mods, I'll spend a metric boatload there too to buy exactly what I want from the guy that designed it.

I could care less if you buy one just like mine, I'm not concerned about what you can or can not afford to buy.

So long as I am able to buy an authentic device that suits my fancy I will do so. And be very happy to own some item I feel will be treasured for a lifetime.

I will gladly give my clone stuff away as soon as my authentic rig is complete and in my hands, you see, I'm not a collector, I'm not particularly wealthy, I just like a few nice things and don't mind paying for them or waiting on them.

As for the dumpster diving comment, I'm pretty sure the food in Gordon Ramsey's dumpster is better than what I eat on a regular basis, but it isn't the same as paying for it and eating it in the restaurant. Which is the same as buying a 1:1 clone, you may well be getting something very good, it may well be exactly the same for all intents and purposes, but that's not the whole deal.

I just spoke with the guy who is making the stuff I ordered, I feel that is worth a great deal in and of itself. If for nothing else its just nice to be able to chat about where things are, how things are going, etc. Its highly personal.

That just doesn't exist with clones in this market. It isn't as if you are owner of some obsolete item in need of a replacement part that simply no longer exists and you contact an artisan to replicate that part; clones are churned out buy the thousands by someone you will never speak to.

There is no magic in that, its just like buying a carton of smokes. It is a very impersonal way of doing things, that in my opinion is very much what is wrong in today's world.

Maurice
 

jimbodaddy74

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If there werten't a market for clones, they wouldn't sell. if there weren't a market for authentics, they wouldn't sell. I have no problem with clones as long as they are not passed off as an authentic to an unsuspecting customer. I own clone guitars. Why own a Fender Stratocaster when I can have a Fernandes that was LITERALLY made to the EXACT specs from the EXACT materials, by the EXACT same people for $400 less? What do I get for the extra $400? Resale is only of concern to collectors, not users of the product.
 

regal55

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Here's how the hobby/leisure time goods economy works,

the west creates something innovative but expensive to manufacture.

So China comes in and clones it for less than half the price at a later date.

Then the original has to make a rev 2 (always a better version) and to compete with the clones.

Works like that for audio equipment, e-cigarettes, flashlights, a lot of non life essential man hobby stuff.

There was a time we could import rifles from the far east, those were good times, they makde fantastic AK-47 clones. Those that made it here legally are in high demand and expensive.

Edit: I'm exaggerating a bit but I see it all the time. Auto enthusiast parts is another example. Western country (you can just about include Japan as western now) creates a great set of headers. A year later you can get an exact duplicate from China for 1/4 the price. Quality sometimes is just as good.

I was in a group that designe amplifiers (high end) as a hobby and we frequently sent the designs to china to make the PCB boards, this was all not for profit but for fun. A year later we would see our designs on ebay. I just laughed, they can duplicate about anything for cheap but can't create or design, its like 100% left brain over there. I do worry about slavery over there.


Look at the Aerotank, they had V2 on their shelf just as China perfectly cloned it for under 1 for under $7.
 
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Myk

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I have to kind of agree with OP. A few short years ago, we could buy an entire SS hybrid for the price that just the attys are going for today.
I don't keep track of SS prices, so maybe I should just hush up, but ...

$20 for a 1"x12" round bar of SS.
About $10 I think for brass (possibly tube, I forget what I was pricing).
Of course that is not bulk pricing a manufacturer would get.
 

Maurice Pudlo

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Morality is nothing more than a barrier. I do what benefits me, and I gladly support the makers of clones for providing something nice at such a low price. If I were to create something, which I don't see myself doing, I'd be happy to sell it at a fair price. I see where people like me are coming from, and I'd be glad to help them out too.

It doesn't take much of a brain from today's standard knowledge to improve upon a tube of metal with a switch. If a creator honestly believes a tiny improvement is worth doubling the price, they should deflate their ego.

Feel free to call me Lucifer for not supporting swindling. :vapor:

Do you even comprehend what you've said here?

You are supporting swindling by buying from the very thieves that steal others designs.

Setting aside morality is foolish, can you imagine what it would be like if nobody had morals of any kind. Life would be rather tricky would it not?

This morality is nothing but a barrier thing, is it good for everyone? Modders might enjoy having no moral barriers.

Let's hope whomever makes our food has at least some measure of morality?

Meh, morals, who needs em?

Maurice
 

stevegmu

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$20 for a 1"x12" round bar of SS.
About $10 I think for brass (possibly tube, I forget what I was pricing).
Of course that is not bulk pricing a manufacturer would get.

How dare any manufacturer charge significantly more than the cost of raw material for a finished good.
I'm just glad our customers at work don't know what the cost of extruder grade pellitized plastic costs, or I'd be out of a job...:facepalm:
.
 

WattWick

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Morality is nothing more than a barrier. I do what benefits me, and I gladly support the makers of clones for providing something nice at such a low price. If I were to create something, which I don't see myself doing, I'd be happy to sell it at a fair price. I see where people like me are coming from, and I'd be glad to help them out too.

It doesn't take much of a brain from today's standard knowledge to improve upon a tube of metal with a switch. If a creator honestly believes a tiny improvement is worth doubling the price, they should deflate their ego.

Feel free to call me Lucifer for not supporting swindling. :vapor:

Excellent! If you happen to know what a fair price for the various original mods is, I assume you can provide what's missing from all these threads: actual numbers. That would be a great contribution and a great way to avoid you having to deflate your ego :p
 

Myk

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How dare any manufacturer charge significantly more than the cost of raw material for a finished good.
I'm just glad our customers at work don't know what the cost of extruder grade pellitized plastic costs, or I'd be out of a job...:facepalm:
.

How said anything about that? I was answering a question. Someone made a very valid point that the cost of original mechs has gone up drastically, way more than the cost of goods, labor or inflation.
So you can take your entitled self and troll someone else.

I'm sitting here happily vaping on my OEM Vamo with an OEM UD product.
 

WattWick

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How said anything about that? I was answering a question. Someone made a very valid point that the cost of original mechs has gone up drastically, way more than the cost of goods, labor or inflation.
So you can take your entitled self and troll someone else.

I'm sitting here happily vaping on my OEM Vamo with an OEM UD product.

I wouldn't say the prices have generally increased. I'd rather say there are a lot of new mods that are more expensive than the norm was a year ago. I.e, you can pick up a brand new Paps for half of what many others charge. Or a brand new Nanos for ~$100. Both from reputable manufacturers. Or you can pick up a $250+ mod from someone who just released their first model. Or anything in between.

I do find it a bit odd that a lot of new mod makers charge seemingly ridiculous amounts for their first product ever released. I find it equally odd that the usual "clone vs original" discussion is so often about $200+ originals vs clones. I have no doubt that some manufacturers price gouge. Some isn't enough for me to go all Robin Hood. I do own a few clones. I don't think I'm doing anyone any good or teaching anyone any valuable lessons by vaping on them.

(Not aimed at Myk... your post simply triggered a little something)
 

WharfRat1976

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All you have to do is get a 6X or less magnifier and look at the difference between an authentic and a clone. The difference is huge---I do not think it is worth the price difference. It is definitely worth some price difference without a doubt. I would say a minimum of at least 30% more than a knockoff in quality alone. Of course, supply and demand.........

This thread can be directed to your local B&M's. Their business practice is shameless. How about buying a Cloupor DNA clone for $120.00....absolutely, shameless.

So go get a 6X magnifier then post your thoughts...

PS. Okay, I just read all the drama in this thread---great stuff but not worth the emotional currency, fellas. Likening "morality" to a "clone or not to clone" discussion is semi bizarre and a tad macabre...lol
 
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