"PelosiCare" was Unveiled today you can read the bill here
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Exactly. This idea that the reform package would make it harder for people to get health care than it is now is flat out absurd and bordering on idiotic. The fact of the matter is that the "reform" package doesn't do anything significant unless it contains a public option... which would be (wait for it...) OPTIONAL.
Everything else in the bill deals with relatively minor issues like pre-existing conditions, which though important, won't make much difference to people who have health coverage already.
Opponents of the bill are basically spreading misinformation in an attempt to smear Obama, regardless of what's actually in the bill.
If free means I cannot provide medical care to my sick child then I'm not sure I want to be free. This care can be as basic as providing food to my family. I think watching my sick child die because I can't provide health care would be as bad as watching them die from starvation.
What rights do we expect. You expect the government will be there when you can't feed you children and they are why not except them to be there when your children need medical care.
There are certain rights we expect living in this country and I think medical care if one of them. I personally don't think we would be losing any more power if the government provided this care.
What rights do we expect. You expect the government will be there when you can't feed you children and they are why not except them to be there when your children need medical care.
There are certain rights we expect living in this country and I think medical care if one of them. I personally don't think we would be losing any more power if the government provided this care.
Oooh don't you know, the working man will pay, those with insurance will pay, I have a few questions. 1 Do we really want the govt handling our health insurance. I sure dont I cant think of anything they handle efficiently. 2 Does the tax payers have to pay for illegal immigrants coverage?
My husband is the working man and his company does not offer health coverage, I am no longer able to work but also can not get health care for my condition, the government takes plenty from us it's time they provide something we can actually use.
Surf, I do tend to act like an idiot sometimes, according to my wife, but before I argue I do check the facts. This is not Obama bashing or Pelosi bashing. I'm bashing the whole lot. Republican, Democrat, big government period. The "option" is not an option. And the "reform" package will do "significant" things. Big business and small, down to us lowly individuals. Granted we all have opinions and all the facts in the world won't change that, but before you can throw out the "misinformation" card I think it would be helpful to all if you dig a little deeper than the evening news, see what's in the legislation, then counter some of these accusations.
There are people who need to government to handle their medical care because there are millions that don't have covereage, either because of their ability to pay or our employer can't pay this for you.
With the overall to the insurance companies they will be better. They will not be able to deny converage for preexisting condition. may not increase you benefits if you use more medical care.
You will have to qualify for the Health Insurance Exchange. If your preminums are above the average then you can buy into this program. Smaller business who are trying to provide insurance to their employees may be able to sign them under the Health Insurance Exchange.
People who already have insurance through their employer will be able to keep their coverage. As I said you have to qualify for the Exchange.
Based on your income the government will help you pay for your coverage.
This would certainly help people who make just enough to keep them off of welfare but not enough to afford health care
I think it will work like our current tax system. The more you make the more you pay. It's the old robin hood form of taxation.
With the overall to the insurance companies they will be better. They will not be able to deny converage for preexisting condition. may not increase you benefits if you use more medical care.
You will have to qualify for the Health Insurance Exchange. If your preminums are above the average then you can buy into this program. Smaller business who are trying to provide insurance to their employees may be able to sign them under the Health Insurance Exchange.
People who already have insurance through their employer will be able to keep their coverage. As I said you have to qualify for the Exchange.
Based on your income the government will help you pay for your coverage.
This would certainly help people who make just enough to keep them off of welfare but not enough to afford health care
I think it will work like our current tax system. The more you make the more you pay. It's the old robin hood form of taxation.
So, you would have the government confiscate what I (and everybody else) earn to pay for healthcare for all, instead of implementing changes to make the healthcare industry work like a free market system. i.e. you receive service, you pay for service, without the middleman of the idiotic insurance companies.
We're ALL going to have *****y healthcare. Yay!
Shouldn't there be a distinction made between
Health CARE
and
Healthcare INSURANCE
Healthcare in the US is a remarkable thing. It's the insurance scam that is broken, bent twisted and in urgent need of fixing.
Health CARE
and
Healthcare INSURANCE
Healthcare in the US is a remarkable thing. It's the insurance scam that is broken, bent twisted and in urgent need of fixing.
Now you got it. We will no longer live in a capitalist society. I doesn't matter if you're a jewel thief, cattle rustler or just an honest guy that worked hard and built up a profitable business. The current direction of our government will ensure that we all have the same thing. Or we all do without the same things. We'll work at the jobs our government needs done and in return they'll take care of us. That's what they do in Russia and it works out ok. And the icing on the cake is that I can't bow out if I want to...Hmmm, no thanks, I'll take my chances? No, can't do that either. FREEDOM ISN'T FREE, BUT IT'S WORTH FIGHTING FOR!!
If people paid for the care they receive, we would only need a major medical policy. When someone who has insurance goes to the doctor for every sniffle and headache and expects the insurance company to pay for it they are happy to do so because then they jack up everyone's premiums. My health insurance premium has gone up 20-30% a year, when we barely use it! (Thank God we're healthy, so far)
The doctors I work for have to pay a staff to handle the insurance billing. 15% of our fulltime staff is dedicated to trying to receive payment for the services the doctors provide. What happens when they cannot get recompensation? The prices go up for everyone. They have equipment to buy, employees to pay, educations to pay for and families to feed.
If I were a student considering the medical field, I'd get out before I became a government employee.
I think good place to start would be to encourage tax-free healthcare savings accounts, and offer major medical policies at reasonable prices.
The only people getting rich are the directors of the health insurance companies.
The doctors I work for have to pay a staff to handle the insurance billing. 15% of our fulltime staff is dedicated to trying to receive payment for the services the doctors provide. What happens when they cannot get recompensation? The prices go up for everyone. They have equipment to buy, employees to pay, educations to pay for and families to feed.
If I were a student considering the medical field, I'd get out before I became a government employee.
I think good place to start would be to encourage tax-free healthcare savings accounts, and offer major medical policies at reasonable prices.
The only people getting rich are the directors of the health insurance companies.
Bingo. This is what I believe should be done, also, but the government won't consider that. Alot of good doctors would be willing to donate services to those that normally can't afford it as long as the IRS gave them a tax break. That's fair. Thank you, geeker.
I know I'm a forum noob but this is one subject I HAVE to comment on:
I was at friends house the other day for dinner and there was a couple from France there and of course the discussion found it's way to healthcare. According to them, if you and your doctor go by the government rules, there are long delays in treatment. However many of the doctors will go "off the books" and see you right away but it will cost a pretty penny. The gentleman gave an example of someone who needed surgery on their hand. They ended up paying for it out of their pocket so they didn't have to wait 3 years to have it done under the government plan. So, while thing might seem like they are great in la belle France, they aren't
The more things change, the more they stay the same. The cost of medical care went up 400% (yes that's right 400!) in the years following the implementation of medicare and medicaid.
This is probably the most accurate statement so far. It's not the care itself that's the problem it's the availability of it and the cost.
Well, way back when, most people just carried a hospitalization policy to cover them should they be hospitalized. The creation of health plans that covered doctors' office visits etc, was something that was introduced by the unions and the snowball just kept rolling (No offense union people! I know you work hard and unions have done alot to improve the conditions for employees. But they've outlived their usefulness. Just think what could be done with the union trust funds to help out....)
I was at friends house the other day for dinner and there was a couple from France there and of course the discussion found it's way to healthcare. According to them, if you and your doctor go by the government rules, there are long delays in treatment. However many of the doctors will go "off the books" and see you right away but it will cost a pretty penny. The gentleman gave an example of someone who needed surgery on their hand. They ended up paying for it out of their pocket so they didn't have to wait 3 years to have it done under the government plan. So, while thing might seem like they are great in la belle France, they aren't
The more things change, the more they stay the same. The cost of medical care went up 400% (yes that's right 400!) in the years following the implementation of medicare and medicaid.
This is probably the most accurate statement so far. It's not the care itself that's the problem it's the availability of it and the cost.
Well, way back when, most people just carried a hospitalization policy to cover them should they be hospitalized. The creation of health plans that covered doctors' office visits etc, was something that was introduced by the unions and the snowball just kept rolling (No offense union people! I know you work hard and unions have done alot to improve the conditions for employees. But they've outlived their usefulness. Just think what could be done with the union trust funds to help out....)
Read the many health care reform threads. You'll find that I know exactly what I'm taking about.
I don't think pre-existing conditions is a minor issue. This bill is not intended to make a difference to people who already have health coverage. This is to help the millions who don't have insurance.I think the health care reform bill will work without a public option. Just the overhaul of the insurance companies will make a big difference. Presently my husband can't get insurance at any cost because of pre-existing conditon. I am on Medicare due to disabilities. In addition to Medicare I have to carry a supplemental policy which cost 300.00 a month. My medicine cost 1500.00 a month and I end up paying 5500.00 out of pocket each year. So even though I have insurance I am still paying a lot.
A public option would worka little like Medicare and Tricare. I know you think the Medicare program is going broke but it is only because there was a surplus of money in the program and they started using it for other things.
Doctors and hospitals are reimbursed different amounts based on Medicare and private insurances. They have a negotiated price which is much cheaper than the charge.If you go to the doctor or in the hospital with no health insurance you will pay the full charge. My husband goes to the doctor he pays for a average office visit of 70.00. When I go Medicare pays about 35.00 of which I have to 20% of that and the rest is just written off.
The government already provides Public School System including requirement for attendance, continuing educations through college funds, law enforcement and military to protect us. They also provide free health care clinic for those who can't afford healthcare across the country. They also provide food and shelter programs for the homeless. They pay the most part for Medicaid which provides assistance to the financially disabled including medical insurance. There are numerous other programs the government provides. After all the constitution gives every citizen the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
This will be just another service the government provides. The other programs the government already provides does not take away our freedom nor do I think that health care reform would affect our freedom.
Actually when you think about the consitution provides for LIFE. Which is provided by adequate health care.
I would gladly pay more so that everybody could have adequate health coverage and receive the care they deserve. Our health is one of the more important things during our life.
Ok, the debate goes on, ha, ha. The bottom line is we'll have to wait and see what they end up with. Obviously, it's out of our hands as our elected officials know what's best for us better than we do. Surf, I appreciate your passion even if I don't agree with your views. This whole thing is bigger than the healthcare reform bill alone and it's hard for me to stay focused on a single strand of spagetti when whole plate is before my eyes. My stance on this, in part, is that to acheive health coverage for all then all must give up some freedom. I'm not willing to do that. The 2 largest percentages of people currently without coverage are those who opt out (young, healthy and invincable) and illegal immigrants. This fact is undisputable, but we never hear about it. As I said, I'm not willing to give up my freedom, but I know some are to get what they want or need. In that vein I believe they should have that freedom. Unfortunately, we can't seem to have it both ways. There's no point to continue our debate when we won't be coming to any resolutions, but I'd like to leave you with this: read the bill. Read it with an open mind, but look for the gaps and loopholes, they're there and they're major in my eyes. This forum is a good place for friendly debate, but at the end of the day we all go back to our corners in triumph, nothing solved. I just ask all who haven't to go directly to the source and read the bill, decide for yourselves. I might be right or wrong, but I've formed my opinion based partly on the bill itself and partly on past performance of our Federal Government. We've all talked about the absurdity of the FDA banning ecigs and endorsing deadlier drugs in the name of Big Pharma money. This is only a tiny exemple of how our government comes to its legislative conclusions and I see this as no different. If it pass I truely hope I've been wrong. See you on the forum.
Our (yes I pay them too) taxes pay for this war. They pay to feed and give medical care to countries who hate us. They pay for the FDA to try to put me out off work and force me back to tobacco. So yeah they can damn sure pay for me to get medical care without being bankrupt. Again I am 31 years old and have a 6 figure medical debt. My credit is permanantly ruined. I don't get medical attention unless I am bleeding out. So yeah if our taxes can pay for bombs and food for our enemies then they can pay for me to have kidney stones removed too.
I am not saying I believe this will happen or that I think this new administration is going to do anything for me. But if they do it will be welcomed, at least by me and the hundreds of thosuands of people like me who work hard for a living but can't see a doctor regularly.
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