Penelope V2
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The designers, if they have confidence in their design, must think big.
They must research the market for their specific product.
They must be prepared to invest their own money, to set up CNC programmes, tooling etc. for initial prototype trials.
Source the parts, from different factories in the far east, so that no one knows the final design.
And when they are happy with the product, make a cost effective large run.
Then price it to attract the market, based on its desirability. Making sure it's marketed properly.
Then, when the product becomes successful, and you have passed your break-even point, offer it to the FT's etc as authentic (or even as a clone!!! without logo, while you sell it slightly more expensive ) and move on to your next design. It won't be worth copying.
What do you reckon fellas, lol. Have I sold it to you!!
They must research the market for their specific product.
They must be prepared to invest their own money, to set up CNC programmes, tooling etc. for initial prototype trials.
Source the parts, from different factories in the far east, so that no one knows the final design.
And when they are happy with the product, make a cost effective large run.
Then price it to attract the market, based on its desirability. Making sure it's marketed properly.
Then, when the product becomes successful, and you have passed your break-even point, offer it to the FT's etc as authentic (or even as a clone!!! without logo, while you sell it slightly more expensive ) and move on to your next design. It won't be worth copying.
What do you reckon fellas, lol. Have I sold it to you!!
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Nothing would stop there.
Copiers copy the latest and most popular model, if modders would go on strike, copiers would simply keep on copying the last model.
We would be missing a few innovations, but we wouldn´t even know what we´re missing, because it never existed.
The last model before the strike would become the most popular device ever, prices would drop even lower due to an ever increasing amount of more copiers copying the same thing and we would all be happily vaping at near zero cost.
This is a hard one, I hate the idea of clones. I did buy one by one once before I realized it was a clone. when I then got into vaping more I realized what it was so it got put to one side and I have not used it since. It may well be true to some other vapers. so i think getting products known out there may help, but with regards to price, there is no way the someone like Imeo or any other original mod maker can make them cheaper due to there product design, and testing, at the end of the day, the time it takes for them to create these devices and the risk they take they have to get a return to allow them to do further products. I know I have not come up with an answer I don't think we ever will. These clone makers take advantage of the modder as they don't take the risk, have the design costs etc, the modder is helpless in this. The only way we can help, and perhaps it may be a bit harsh as some people cant afford the original product, so I do feel for these people but perhaps we should call for forum owners/admins to set rauls of clone devises being band from the forums so these devices cannot be publicised. they cannot go in the sale sections, nor can they be talked about in posts. I know its a bit like a nanny state and it will be hard to police but we need to start somewhere, if the clones are not publicised then there will be less chance of them being noticed. I don't know, I am only typing as i am thinking about it, its such a hard subject with so meany points of view, I am not saying this is the answer, just giving food for thought.
You're right. They would copy the latest model. But keep in mind, many vapers are creatures of the latest "funforaweek" device. There are many. If all those dried up I don't believe that people would keep buying the same device. Eventually it'd become either a Stop Buying scenario, or have to buy a second, third, etc because there is no variety.
Believe me. I don't think the strike would help, but it's a possibility. I also don't believe that anything less than 12 months would remotely work. You would have to get it coordinated with all the big makers and have to shut down innovation for LONGER than a year. 4-5 months doesn't do enough for "boredom".
The obvious downfall here is the makers all lose money and profits. This in theory is an idea, but not a realistic idea. It's a fantasy.
Keep poking around here buddy. E-smoke will likely have spares to sell.
ECF did ban "counterfeits" in the Classifieds, which is a start, and better than nothing. Counterfeits being copies with logos and fake serial numbers.
what about if forums stop those sellers from being on the forums yankee? We can put those stores on black list. Then noone will buy from them
That is indeed an excellent start. Not been on ECF that long, sorry I should prob have looked. it would be cool if we could push it a little further to include clones.
I for example dont need cloners to force me make something better because I force myself Its. You may know this because without cloners I made almost everything new in this market the last 5 years. Cloners just made me feel pitty because I see people buying those clones
Only if the design will go mass production under modder supervise,let say 100,000 units,
Then it can reach price point that won't leave room for cloners.
If let say some big corp work with the modder and hit the market with new design
And big stock levels this will be affective.
Cloners cannot effectively copied Audi or Coca-cola or 3m or any other big numbers corp'.(effectively)
What happen with copiers of Provari is if they made it low cost it was not perform the same,
If they made it almost the same quality then the price will not be far from a genuine Provari,
So people will prefer the original.
Price point is the most effective key to eliminate cloners.
The small modders are like artist,it will always be profitable to clone them.
Just Look at known painters or the like,all of them are copied to this days.
No small high end modder can be safe because there is room enough for profits to cloners.
So a modder like artist will have the heart of is loyalist but the mass is out of reach.
On the other hand we know that if a modder will work with big corp' they won't agree to
Make all he wants because of economy considerations so in the end of day I say we are lucky
Of this situation,in a way:
We get (those that can afford to buy art designs) the best design with no limitation,
In a price we can pay,and yes the cloners have room to make a profits,and others to buy clone.
The way I prefer to look on this is from the full half of the glass.
We still have Imeo and we can support him and enjoy his designs.
The alternative is that he will consult big corp' that will cut some of the features of the device
For money reasons,and we get less feature in our device,is that better???
We had big tobaco company that cloners could not clone,so what?
Did day give us better designs??? You all know the answer.
I personally found this situation best of the alternatives as I see them for know.
Small modders try always to make something better because of cloners that clone them.
It can be worse.
So I better be happy with what I have then be angry because of what I could have.
Problem is with that Imeo is that a good number of people on this forum pretty much exclusively buy clones we can blacklist but they will advertise hell the fastech thread is one of the biggest on ecf at the moment best think you can do to fight cloning is what is already being done innovating faster then they copy giving a level of service they can't even dream off giving
you are right S8. We have the way to stop them but we have to start doing it. If noone cares then nothing good will happen
I innovate not to fight clones but because I can and because I want to give you the best of the best Fish. So we have to ban clones once for good. We cant allow thiefs on our house. Its like we accept thiefs if we dont ban them immediately
Oh no don't get me wrong I think of cloning as nothing short of theft I will not buy or even help anyone who has bought a clone and how would such a ban work ?
I didnt get you wrong fish, no way buddy. I just say that we cant innovate just to avoid cloners. We have to innovate because we like to innovate. If we innovate to avoid cloners then we will always be on a hurry and our devices will have problems.
I dont like cloners to force me do nothing more than what I like. Innovation needs time and if someone push me to make something, be sure that it will not be as good as you want
I dont like cloners to force me do nothing more than what I like. Innovation needs time and if someone push me to make something, be sure that it will not be as good as you want
Well when you put it like that it makes sense to me but what would be done to stop the cloning
That's certainly a start. But Imeo, you and I both know that the forum will chase that user away, and another with a different name will come along and register and start the cycle all over again. The forum owners/moderators would spend a good portion of time managing this blacklist.
Another problem is how many forums there are. Where one forum may get the stones or manpower to manage this, other forums may say "Not worth our time policing it." Unless all are onboard, this will not get a lot of traction.
Understand, I would LOVE for this to get under control. I hate the cloners - ESPECIALLY those that go so far as to put the damn logo on there as well as any other markings. The sad part, cloning has become to vaping what spam has become to emails. Stopping can be a full time job.
Imeo I don't mean to disagree but I hope you do make another batch even if by pre order. I understand there are Ithaka's in stock but to me this is a good thing. This is the first time in a long time in GG history where I can show someone a GG product and actually tell them where they can get it if they want one and I personally think that is a good thing. Also given the number of Ithaka's made there is bound to be a slowdown of the rush buying eventually.
I know the coppiers thing is a bad situation. But please don't let that stop you from making multiple runs of your great products. Every time you say you are only going to make 1 run of something or discontinue it it saddens me a bit inside because it means from then on any time a new Vaper or a new person to GG sees something and wants to know what it is we have to tell them that is a GG xxx but it is discontinued so you only chance of ever having one is buy buying it off the classys or buying a inferior replica.
This is just my .02 on the subject.
I wish they'd take the next step and ban all discussion of/links to counterfeits. That would dry up a lot of the cloners business.
Edit: And here's an example of why they need to get it off their forums IMO. People are going to get sick/hurt from this crap coming out of China. Here's an example of cloning gone bad.
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