Personal Observation: The general public are aware and angry with deeming regs...
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I've seen too many of my hobbies been regulated to hell and back and this kind of behavior makes me feel s***** to be called an American. "I don't have time to read what's going on with vaping and I'm too lazy to sign petitions or do anything to help" then they are in an uproar when they see what happens by being idle. I'm beginning to agree with how the world views us, as fat stupid cattle instead of how we see ourselves as a freedom loving nation.
You thought Wall-E was just a movie? That's the future
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see why showing a customer how a device works would constitute a violation.
According to a brief that PBusardo has on his website,
"Retail staff can instruct and demonstrate how a device is assembled or a tank is filled or how eliquid is dripped. They can not assemble products for customers. That would qualify them as a manufacturer. To that point, repairing or adjusting a customer's device is also considered manufacturing."
One of my buddies who works in a vape shop in Ohio had this customer come into his shop today, who needed a new coil made for his setup. As you can see he is physically challenged and can't make one for himself, and no shop employee could help him according to the FDA. Luckily another customer was kind enough to help the dude out.
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That right there is the kind of thing we need to see presented to the public at large!According to a brief that PBusardo has on his website,
"Retail staff can instruct and demonstrate how a device is assembled or a tank is filled or how eliquid is dripped. They can not assemble products for customers. That would qualify them as a manufacturer. To that point, repairing or adjusting a customer's device is also considered manufacturing."One of my buddies who works in a vape shop in Ohio had this customer come into his shop today, who needed a new coil made for his setup. As you can see he is physically challenged and can't make one for himself, and no shop employee could help him. Luckily another customer was kind enough to help the dude out.
Right. I was commenting on the statement, "a vape shoppe cannot demonstrate or help a customer returning with an issue." That's not exactly correct, but that doesn't really render the deeming significantly less odious.According to a brief that PBusardo has on his website,
"Retail staff can instruct and demonstrate how a device is assembled or a tank is filled or how eliquid is dripped. They can not assemble products for customers. That would qualify them as a manufacturer. To that point, repairing or adjusting a customer's device is also considered manufacturing."One of my buddies who works in a vape shop in Ohio had this customer come into his shop today, who needed a new coil made for his setup. As you can see he is physically challenged and can't make one for himself, and no shop employee could help him according to the FDA. Luckily another customer was kind enough to help the dude out.
Does a restaurant server "manufacture" a food product when he/she pours a glass of milk? Does Jiffy Lube become a car manufacturer when they change my oil filter and put air in the tires? Does the laundry manufacture my shirt when they wash out the mustard stains and press it? Apparently, if a vape shop puts a drip tip on an atomizer it becomes a manufacturer and would have to submit a PMTA costing hundreds of thousands of dollars.
The FDA has taken this to an absurd extreme and I wish some of the briefs in the Nicopure lawsuit had make this point a little more forcefully, illustrating it with concrete examples; e.g., requiring PMTAs in order to sell and/or install drip tips, o-rings and replacement springs.
I see your point, but if i can't talk about hazard reduction etc,, where is the line that i mustn't cross? So far nothing, guidelines? The FDA plays the role of the Sphinx, we risk the trap..
Well, according to their procedure manual, the FDA is not going to start off by seizing things, fining you or seeking an injunction if they catch you installing coils or making factual statements to customers. Rather, they start off by issuing a warning letter and it escalates from there. Selling to minors will probably be treated more severely.
There should be a survey before more regulations governing the personal behavior of adult citizens are adopted. If you say you want the government to protect you from making bad decisions, you'll be subject to the regulations. If you say, "Thanks, but no thanks. I'll make my own decisions," then you can do whatever you want, but if you harm yourself you're ineligible for government disability benefits or subsidized health care.
[If anyone feels compelled to explain why this is impractical, please don't trouble yourself. I already know that.]
Our anger about what qualifies one as a manufacturer of a tobacco product is misdirected when we aim it at the FDA. It needs to be aimed at Congress. They are the ones that put into law the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (in 2009) where they defined manufacturer. (see below) The FDA is simply following to the letter of the law the directive they were give. (I underlined the word assembles).
"(20) Tobacco product manufacturer.-- The term 'tobacco product manufacturer' means any person, including any repacker or relabeler, who--
"(A) manufactures, fabricates, assembles, processes, or labels a tobacco product; or
"(B) imports a finished tobacco product for sale or distribution in the United States.
"(20) Tobacco product manufacturer.-- The term 'tobacco product manufacturer' means any person, including any repacker or relabeler, who--
"(A) manufactures, fabricates, assembles, processes, or labels a tobacco product; or
"(B) imports a finished tobacco product for sale or distribution in the United States.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
New York City tried to limit the portion size of sugary drinks and the courts shot them down. I don't expect to see significant sugar and salt restrictions. There are no powerful economic forces to line up behind it, whereas vaping threatens a number of such interests and we're seeing the results.
People being angry and outraged is one thing. People being angry and outraged to the point of calling politicians is another. I am not sure how helpful contacting politicians is going to be, but it's doing something.
Pf, that person must be a joy to hang around. I mean, imagine being so uptight that something like vaping gets you to a point where you have to be vehement about it, LOL..
Try living with someone like that. I live with my brother who is very anti-vaping. I was left with no choice but to move in with him when I became unemployed and exhausted my savings, otherwise I'd be living in a cardboard box under the bridge.
He's in his mid-50' and single. He smoked earlier in life but quit. He's got allergies which he states vapor aggrevates.
I vape outside or in my bedroom with the door closed. He still says he can smell it, but none of the rest of my family or friends can smell it when they visit. Hopefully I'll be in a more favorable situation in about 6 months when I can move out into my own residence.
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Although I'm no fan of the FSPTCA or Congress in general, Congress didn't have e-cigarettes in mind. Hardly anybody had even heard of e-cigarettes when the statute was written.
There's nothing in the FSPTCA which compelled the FDA to "deem" e-cigarettes. It provides, "This chapter shall apply to all cigarettes, cigarette tobacco, roll-your-own tobacco, and smokeless tobacco and to any other tobacco products that the Secretary by regulation deems to be subject to this chapter."
Moreover, the statute includes "accessories" in the definition of tobacco products. But the FDA elected not to include accessories in the deeming.
It's the smell that he's worried about? Or is he just a ..... sheep that believes it'll kill him?
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