Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[Road_House]

"Like I said.... as above, how in the hell do you prevent burning the insulator and if done, are they as of yet replaceable? "


These are not specifically for Protank heads but a lot of people have used them for that purpose.

AGA Series Positive Post Insulators - 10 pack - Kidney Puncher

 

[clnire]

On my phone so no links, but Lightning Vapes sells the grommet/insulators in either rubber or silicon. If I am misunderstanding, please someone correct me.

 

[Darryl Licht]

2) Best way to keep legs from getting hot. Given I'm not going to weld NR wire legs on is there a way to prevent this. I've read some put the coil on an rda and fire it stating passing electricity through it helps/prevents this assuming the coil is as close to the rda posts as possible. If this is the way - what RDA is recommended. I attempted to try this on a kayfun deck, but had a number of problems. (a) the posts are to wide and separated the coil I made for PT (b) the posts require the wire to be wrapped around the set screw thus distorting the wire. Is there a better deck to use where the wire goes through the posts and the set screw is tightened down onto the wire?

Running the mandrel through the coil back and forth when hot is what sx uses in his videos. It works, not sure why... but it just does!

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

There are these:
http://clonecores.com/product/60-piece-protank-evod-mt3-rebuilders-kit

And these:
http://www.lightningvapes.com/produ...10-pack-ce-type-atty-s-eg-protank-evod-t3-etc

And these:
http://www.lightningvapes.com/products/silicone-top-cap-10-pack-for-protank-evod-style-coil-heads

 

[MacTechVpr]

"Like I said.... as above, how in the hell do you prevent burning the insulator and if done, are they as of yet replaceable? "


These are not specifically for Protank heads but a lot of people have used them for that purpose.

AGA Series Positive Post Insulators - 10 pack - Kidney Puncher

Hey road welcome. They do kinda resemble the Kanger's don't they. But we've kinda been down this road before with KP and others. They never did fit the Kanger product. A myth spread all over ECF over and over. However the new grommets are similar in design and worth a look. I don't supposed you've checked it yourself?

On my phone so no links, but Lightning Vapes sells the grommet/insulators in either rubber or silicon. If I am misunderstanding, please someone correct me.

Hey C, good evenin'. I haven't seen LV put up any parts for the ST yet. Fingers crossed.

Good luck all.

 

[clnire]

Oh, the ones I was talking about are for Kangers..

 

[Taylor7617]

Mac - it's funny that you pointed me to a thread discussing the Wire Gizmo. I actually have one and used it for a bit...but then left it to use a blunt tip needle for a bit larger diameter coil. Now after reading through that thread, looks like I may be able to still use it but just need to get some Music/Piano wire and make another rod.

Wondering - are most using the 1/16 rod for SubTanks RBA builds? What about for the OCC heads...is that a 3mm tight tension coil (seems really large) or a loose coil?

After almost 2 years of finding something that works (PT2s rebuilt and MVP2 - the original 11w max)...I figure it's time for another upgrade given my MVP is starting to act up a bit - battery doesn't fully charge and seems to drain quicker. Wife's MVP resets itself. So... for the $70 I spent on those 2 MVPs....2 years later, figure it was a good investment.

 

[Darryl Licht]

Mac - it's funny that you pointed me to a thread discussing the Wire Gizmo. I actually have one and used it for a bit...but then left it to use a blunt tip needle for a bit larger diameter coil. Now after reading through that thread, looks like I may be able to still use it but just need to get some Music/Piano wire and make another rod.

Wondering - are most using the 1/16 rod for SubTanks RBA builds? What about for the OCC heads...is that a 3mm tight tension coil (seems really large) or a loose coil?

After almost 2 years of finding something that works (PT2s rebuilt and MVP2 - the original 11w max)...I figure it's time for another upgrade given my MVP is starting to act up a bit - battery doesn't fully charge and seems to drain quicker. Wife's MVP resets itself. So... for the $70 I spent on those 2 MVPs....2 years later, figure it was a good investment.

I made a mandrel for my coil gizmo using a coathanger that was 2.25mm, works great. I want to find a 2.5 rod which is as large as I think I'd want in a stm rba.

The iPV mini II 70W is a heluva great mod for around $60! Replaceable 18650 batts, SX330 chipset, USB charging too!

Tension is King!

 

[Road_House]

Hey road welcome. They do kinda resemble the Kanger's don't they. But we've kinda been down this road before with KP and others. They never did fit the Kanger product. A myth spread all over ECF over and over. However the new grommets are similar in design and worth a look. I don't supposed you've checked it yourself?

Hey Mac,

I just got some in today, the AGA silicone ones from Kidney Puncher and yeah they do fit a bit snug and I haven't tried one yet with coil wires. Without the wires it was a challenge to pack it in there but they fit. They are quite squishy which increases the challenge. I can see the fumble factor increasing the chances of jackin up your coil.

Anyway, I'm enjoying a subtank mini in rba mode these days and the evods have been relegated to backup status and yard work duty.

I'd be remiss if I didn't thank you for all the information you've provided in this thread along with SuperX and JeremyR. The 1.8 ohm microcoil paired with the rayon wick took a product that was meh in vapor production and prone to flooding and gave it new life, raising it's performance and reliability to a level that was good enough to keep me away from the stinkies

Cheers

 

[chanelvaps]

Not sure why I never get scorched insulators. Is it because I do not usually vape a protank any higher than 11-12 watts. I do dry burn but rather quickly a few times. I am seriously still using the insulators I was using when I joined this thread. Every once in awhile I will replace one from the pack of silicone ones I bought but more because it seems stretched out and weak.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Mac - it's funny that you pointed me to a thread discussing the Wire Gizmo. I actually have one and used it for a bit...but then left it to use a blunt tip needle for a bit larger diameter coil. Now after reading through that thread, looks like I may be able to still use it but just need to get some Music/Piano wire and make another rod.

Wondering - are most using the 1/16 rod for SubTanks RBA builds? What about for the OCC heads...is that a 3mm tight tension coil (seems really large) or a loose coil?

After almost 2 years of finding something that works (PT2s rebuilt and MVP2 - the original 11w max)...I figure it's time for another upgrade given my MVP is starting to act up a bit - battery doesn't fully charge and seems to drain quicker. Wife's MVP resets itself. So... for the $70 I spent on those 2 MVPs....2 years later, figure it was a good investment.

It's about tension T. It gives us a lot of mechanical leverage but still a lot of touch with a pin vise or gizmo. The optimal strain for a wire is one that gets it as close as possible (adhesion, Pauli exclusion) but not much further is needed. You're already at the rated wire resistance then. What is critical then is being patient about oxidation. Use low voltage, allow cooling adding air as needed. It will slowly start a migration of heating from center to lighting at a uniform color end to end. You have it. It can be taken further but that's good'nough to vape.


Here's a sample of a rewick on the first 2.5mm I ran. It shows the uplifted (sexy bottoms) on those wicks which I described earlier in the thread. Purpose is to compensate for gravity sag which will definitely happen. I tuck them in between the posts to allow unobstructed screwdown of the cap; then, lightly reposition them to touch the deck. Some folks concern about obstructing the channel. Never encountered that problem on any device. Just don't jamb it down there and you're good. Again, peeps thinning out these wicks. Just reduces the flow. Don't change fuel line sizes here. Be consistent. I've used up to 3x the lead thickness on wick thinning out the heated center to allow for more wick saturation. Never had a problem. Only time I ever had problems was under wicking lead media. That will dry things out and fast in high power. Here's the installed wick and plenty of it, between 3-4x the coil dia...

It's a parallel on 2.5mm. But you can get good results I believe on everything from 5/64", 3/32" 7/64" and I'd stay within' those to start. It's easer to get to "sticky" the smaller the dia. I'm going to test and migrate towards larger diameters for this tank as I think it has the flow to support it and channels that can be expanded. Not for the daily vape but when I want the big cigar/pipe feel. And it's great to have the base options to do that. The OCC has the most promise there even if will be the difficult build. The RBA for most everyone easier and I think adequate for up to 3mm. The important factor is the distance between screws. Great to build winds where the leads can go straight in, or nearly so. That puts less stress on the end turns and wind overall…particularly when you re-wick.

You should stay with singles until you can get the wind down consistently a few times. and still try to get a pin vise. Great to have both for comparison and the unavoidable unexpected. I have found myself suddenly unable to wind on either. It happens (like, can't find the bits, that go with the wire or the wick that I want). But most don't have a hundred or so premade lying around. Just sayin'.

Good luck T. Hail us if needed.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Hey Mac,

I just got some in today, the AGA silicone ones from Kidney Puncher and yeah they do fit a bit snug and I haven't tried one yet with coil wires. Without the wires it was a challenge to pack it in there but they fit. They are quite squishy which increases the challenge. I can see the fumble factor increasing the chances of jackin up your coil.

Anyway, I'm enjoying a subtank mini in rba mode these days and the evods have been relegated to backup status and yard work duty.

I'd be remiss if I didn't thank you for all the information you've provided in this thread along with SuperX and JeremyR. The 1.8 ohm microcoil paired with the rayon wick took a product that was meh in vapor production and prone to flooding and gave it new life, raising it's performance and reliability to a level that was good enough to keep me away from the stinkies

Cheers

Thanks road, I didn't mean to duck an answer. But I got really intrigued because the AGS rubber does resemble the ST's. And yeah that was my concern. They were way tight in the PT heads. So much so they choked the airflow. And the ST grommets are very soft too. Played around with them but haven't completed a rebuild on the OCC but at least 3-6 different configurations are planned overall for this tank. At least two completely unique circuit variants. Nothing too wild. Not that can't be done when you get the t.m.c. down.

Look, bad behavior by Kanthal is mostly attributable to one thing. It's the very reason we use Kanthal. We need to oxidize it. And this puts a CERAMIC LAYER OF PROTECTION on the wire. Building a secure proper electrical wind based on this principle and super_X_drifter's concept of the contact micro coil was what finally pushed me over the edge. I wasn't positive I'd succeed but confident that I knew several ways that such a circuit could be adequately cured. It's done every day by people of all skill levels in other arts and crafts. My adaptation of tension winding is just a methodology relied on by industry for ages. What's really as helpful are the methods I and many others have contributed to stabilization and symmetry of installation. Concepts that not many before this thread were taking to seriously. Just look back at some of the videos a year back or even today. But it is on the whole these things that help us reasonably arrive at a reliable and enjoyable vape!

No shorts, great vapor. Predictable and repeatable. Russ'll be the first to tell you. And my thanks to him.

That's the ticket.

Good luck road.



p.s. I couldn't find my AGS's but I got quite a bit kit and they gotta be there. I'll check it out. Thx.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Not sure why I never get scorched insulators. Is it because I do not usually vape a protank any higher than 11-12 watts. I do dry burn but rather quickly a few times. I am seriously still using the insulators I was using when I joined this thread. Every once in awhile I will replace one from the pack of silicone ones I bought but more because it seems stretched out and weak.

You've definitely got good symmetry channel.



Good luck.

 

[Alter]

I hate wasting a good protank insulator. I've scorched a few in my builds but cut the burnt off the tip and its back in action again. I do have a bunch on hand along with several packs of stock heads that I bought well over a year ago. I don't like those opaque clearish silicone. They get used right up till they literally crumble apart. So far the protank IMO is one of the most versatile and easy to maintain attys and will be very hard to replace.
I have since gotten into using kayfuns, foggers and russains but will always have a place for a protank in my vape arsenal. Now that I'm experimenting with making my own juice, its super handy to quickly build a PT head, wick and tryout a you new juice.
3mm is a nice coil size for a kayfun wicked with rayon, all my kayfuns running those builds...its a good vape

 

[MacTechVpr]

I hate wasting a good protank insulator. I've scorched a few in my builds but cut the burnt off the tip and its back in action again. I do have a bunch on hand along with several packs of stock heads that I bought well over a year ago. I don't like those opaque clearish silicone. They get used right up till they literally crumble apart. So far the protank IMO is one of the most versatile and easy to maintain attys and will be very hard to replace.
I have since gotten into using kayfuns, foggers and russains but will always have a place for a protank in my vape arsenal. Now that I'm experimenting with making my own juice, its super handy to quickly build a PT head, wick and tryout a you new juice.
3mm is a nice coil size for a kayfun wicked with rayon, all my kayfuns running those builds...its a good vape

You are the most frugal vaper I know. LOL!

But you know, I have (had) coil assemblies going back all the way to the original PT. Then at one point I had an intern who decided It'd be great to separate them all into parts. Damn if he didn't understand that I could tell their age/release by the coloration, whether it matched on elements like the top silicone, small o-ring or grommet… the number of scorch marks. The length of certain versions chimney cap, whether PT or EVOD.

I still don't like the clear silicone. Too mushy but I was able to refine the set to be able to use them without too frequently encountering lead slip (and loose end turns resulting). There is a subtle taste difference, I will admit. And those too sensitive will likely occasionally run into it even on a good symmetrical build. But the fact is that they're both silicone.

I've got all kinds of tanks I've never built for myself so intense has been the mission to get folks over on Protanks. My process may not work for everyone. But I've remained determined to help those for whom it does.

I highly recommend you try your hand at DIY AUE. You'll never look back and maybe still be able to enjoy the high end. I've had to 'cause I had to give my helpers somethin' to vape. Can't be building and testing all this gear and never get a chance to enjoy it.

Agreed, a tank with decent airflow deserves to be used. More wick, more flow, more vapor.

However, I agree. I still have a love/hate relationship with the venerable little tank. Even as I seldom vape it below 12W these days. Still trying to stay in what most folks would call a moderate range so I can experience what they do. On my personal gear and builds I'm usually upwards of 50W <.5Ω.

You take care and good luck AUE.

 

[cigatron]

The protank lives! Haven't used any if my protank variants since the advent of the Lemo and STmini but glad to see some out there still getting some use out of them.

 

[chanelvaps]

I cannot imagine ever 'not' using them. They are just so convenient for out and about. Not to mention they look cute on the multitudes of Isticks I stupidly bought in a coop before realizing the threads were nonsense. I have adapters on them and the adapters never come off.

The protank lives! Haven't used any if my protank variants since the advent of the Lemo and STmini but glad to see some out there still getting some use out of them.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I cannot imagine ever 'not' using them. They are just so convenient for out and about. Not to mention they look cute on the multitudes of Isticks I stupidly bought in a coop before realizing the threads were nonsense. I have adapters on them and the adapters never come off.

I agree chanel. And I still throw a Mini on a kicked Magneto, my preferred small carry, when I want to have that extra (tobacco) flavor with me. Especially on drives! I vape everywhere and that's a perfect inconspicuous fit in the back pocket too for the many common areas at the beachfront facility here and mall runs. Funny that this relatively low producing device draws so much attention…by peeps interested themselves in quitting. Most of us are not big power, cloud chasing cheerleaders. I personally do love the option though.

Good luck.

 

[cigatron]

Subtank mini, Lemo and Egrip are all Protank killers imo. The Lemo turned out to be a dripper killer too. Not that it produces exactly the same flavor as my rda's but it's so close that I don't drip anymore....don't need to unless testing new flavors at the local b&m.

I praise kanger for the introduction of the protank and its derivatives. They are solely responsible for getting me off cigs but I'm not one to remain loyal to a particular product or even a manufacturer. I've owned Fords, GMs and Mopars in my lifetime, each with its pros and conns. Some just drive better than others.


Initially cost was the main deterrent in introducing cig smokers to vaping around here. Even though cheaper than cigs they had a hard time rationizing the initial investment based on the amount of flavor and vapor produced by clearos. Then there was flooding, leaking and burny hits. Things changed for the better with the intro of rebuilding the kanger heads but then there are those who have no desire to do so...so they thought. Got a lot of them rebuilding and some remained successful but many gave it up...too fussy.

Along comes the Subtank mini. Best of both worlds. Buy and/or rebuild with better flavor and ample vapor production. For about $100 I can set up noobs with a 50w vape rig that works without modifications of any kind and lasts all day without refilling or recharging for most. When they get ready to rebuild they have more options than ever and it's less fussy to get a pretty spectacular vape. The STmini has conns too but none that a noob would notice. It just works imo.

Thanks to all here for your support and patience. It's because of you all that I was able to quit the stinkies and help others to do likewise. Made some friends along the way too....bonus!

 

[chanelvaps]

Well said Cig. So much truth in it all. I keep thinking I need to move along to either the Lemo or the Subtank but I am just not much of a sub Ohm er and isn't that the main bonus of both?
Most days I just like to mosy along with a few rigs at between 10-12 watts. Usually have two Taifuns, one with a tobacco and one with a fruit and then a Protank with another fav. All with TMC. When I go from room to room I usually grab 1-2 of them. When I go outside with my dog or leave the house I grab the Protank.
Sometimes, in the morning, or with a vaping friend, I get into a few serious jolts of nic and at that time I hit my Sigelei Taj .. dripper on my IPV at Sub Ohm. Few hits and I am done. More than a few hits and I cough a little the next day. I think I feel about it the way I feel about most anything in life (a reformed addicts way of thinking) if I start liking it (20 watts, 50 watts, 100 watts, yikes) where do I go from there? (200 watts? BIG yikes)
I am just happy having found a substitute for cigs and I will be over here vaping happily at 10-12 watts.
Now if someone tells me the flavor will improve greatly with different gear I might step out of this comfort zone of mine but so far the Taifun has the best flavor I know of, Protank the most convenience.