Sorry all.......but have some noob twisted questions:
Does using twisted lead to a cooler vape? Better flavor?
As I'm about to start experimenting on the ST mini, can this be used with the OCC or is it best reserved for the RBA?
Lastly, since this is twisted, assume the previous mentions of "tension" can't really be done as I'd think it would distort the wire but I may be wrong. Is it best to still use a Jig or Wire Gizmo type tool or by hand over a particular rod/drill bit? I think either way you could get them close...just wondering if there is a 'best practice' and/or a couple vid's a guy could watch. All I've seen is HOW to twist which seems easy either with a drill or by hand using a pen cap (assuming wire is pulled tight while twisting).
I've got 32, 30 (which I was using on ProTanks), 28 which I used on REO and 26 ga which i just rec'd (purchased on a whim for the helluva it) ... Preferred gauge for builds? I'd probably like to stay in the 1ohm range but willing to try just about anything once. LOL
Thanks
Hi T, thx for joining us. No sorry. Welcome.
I'm going to start with a simple analogy. When we go to scramble a couple of eggs, do we throw the big pan on the small burner? Or, the one that fits? Ever try and cook on one like that?
<pause>
We need to build and compare to a standard T. If we don't someone else's (supposed) standard ain't gonna work for ya when ya do it. Plain and simple. And there's way too much of that here on ECF makin' it all the harder for all of us to find
what we like. The reasoning behind my choices are that for this to be an apples-for-apples comparison we must be lookin' at the same pan…that is, the same wire mass. Otherwise, it's the pressure cooker vs. the sauté pan. No makin' sense of that. Then
everybody's claim is valid and meaningless at the same time.
Now for folks just starting out any build that works is a marvel. Unfortunately at that stage we have zero notion of what efficiency is or the balance between diffusion of vapor and vaporization. What that entails for the flavor and texture result. That's unfortunate because we tend to get locked in to some of our first choices. Like the first car make we buy or like. And for many that's the result that's retained as a preference…often to the exclusion of most else. I find that sad. There is so much to enjoy here. I've tried to taylor my contributions to this thread so as to give new vapers a chance at being able to build those differences, all of them, effectively. First, by finding the middle ground as best as possible to have a balanced appreciation of the result. These atomizers are not a haphazard guess T. The producers do make them to accommodate their best estimation of what most of us are likely to enjoy. Find that mean and it's the point in the road where all the sign posts live.
Merely matching resistance is not a meaningful comparison. It may be the balance of power…but it doesn't consider function or efficiency.
Gonna throw up three examples for you to look at of
comparable wire mass (the measure of capacity to do work). I'll be talkin' more about this as needed. You go ahead, take a look and decide what's more likely to give you good overall performance. Consider the above analogy...
26AWG 7/7, 2.778mm i.d., LL=9, WS=0, t.m.c. = .99Ω (standard t.m.c.)
32AWG TP 5/5, 2.778mm i.d., TP=.606 (1.5Ø) LL=9, WS=0.202 t.m.c. = 1.67 Ω (twisted pair)
32AWG 6/6, 2.778mm i.d., LL=9, t.m.c. = 1.5625 Ω (dual coil, equiv. to the twisted)
You'll notice that to do the same work you've got to up the resistance considerably. Not even accounting for the inefficiencies of incomplete oxidation that multi wire builds all share (causes excess heat in operation), you gotta wonder just how much pan is off the burner in the last two T. You see the
ONLY part of the coil that matters…the part that does the
work., the surface area everybody keeps talkin' about isn't the big pan
per se but the part that's wet by the juice,
DIRECTLY. The more you put exactly there, the more business get's done. That's what we're talkin' about. And
that is the essential principle of the tensioned microcoil. That it concentrates energy efficiently where we need
the work. Not more than needed, but just enough. Exactly.
Note too that twisted and dual are much hotter in how much energy is throws off
overall (heat flux). But, if you compare the surface area and the proportion of
working surface you have to wonder what all the hubbub is about. Only way to make them remotely equal is to go thinner wire and more of it (total wraps, longer, don't fit). Why does thick wire and multi wire produce more
so says everyone? Read their posts. Look at what they're using for output power. Can always make a Pinto go fast if you floor it. Just sayin'. But is it
smoke T, or vapor? Most often unequal winds are being compared to increase multi wire's surface area.
For a better perspective of dimension (and whether it even fits on the ST RBA) check out
Coil Toy. Coil lengths are, per coil. There is no selection for
twisted, dual forward is an approximation slightly to the high side. You
can increase the coil diameter. That's what Kanger chose to do to approximate the efficiency of a microcoil. But that implies more wick (flow) requiring well, more power.
Match wick, wire and airflow been sayin' for over a year. But very importantly...
it's gotta fit. The coil is the pan we throw it on for the power (heat) we want to apply.
Everything else is just that, excess.
Look, I'm not going to be gettin' into much detail on multi-wire non-contact rebuilding on this thread. Not taking this thing off topic. This thread has been a clearo thread from day one. And by the good graces of the mods a beginners' discussion on rebuilding has been tolerated for the sake of new vapers. We should consider
them with our contributions. Alternatives for every kind of experimentation abound on ECF. And I'm a fan so long as the convo remains unbiased as to facts.
I'd be glad to help you refine a straightforward coil that works. So I'll try and build the above 26 gauge in the next day or so. I'd recommend the pin vise to start and the above common 7/64". Easiest way to train your body to find closest contact, for most of us. A gizmo certainly for reliable winds on thicker wire. Not all of us can apply that much strain with bare hands. If you're unclear on anything I've said above please let me know. Post here or PM me as you need.
Good luck T.
