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Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

Discussion in 'Tanks, clearomizers and drop-in coils' started by M_DuBb716, Nov 1, 2013.

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  1. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Bounced your reply over to the TMC Next thread for context.

    Sorry for the belated response. Tied up this weekend.

    Good luck. :)
     
  2. Robbert

    Robbert Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 1, 2016
    I like the subtank mini.Simple,one coil,doesn't leak,and nice flavor.
    Has anyone found coil shape,sizes and places to mount coils to bring out flavor?
     
  3. LilWhiteClouder

    LilWhiteClouder Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 1, 2015
    Raleigh, NC
    I am following up the mention of Nextel woven ceramic fiber insulation as wicking material. I see different versions available (312, 440 and 550). Since I can only find mention of this wicking material on your post from page 153 of this thread (I haven't researched online yet, just ECF), can you tell me
    1. Is there is a difference between the 3 types I mentioned previously, in regards to wicking, and
    2. Thermostatic.com has it available for purchase. Is there anywhere else I should be looking since I will not be using it for an industrial application?
    3. Why have I not heard of this before? I try to take my head out of the clouds on occasion;) Edit: I wasn't even vaping at the time this was really becoming popular for wicking... Was there a reason it fell to the wayside?
    4. Is it comparable to this porous ceramic wicking material stuff for Genesis tanks: VapeSupply's Porous Ceramic Wick FC-2000 1/8" x1.5" Rods 5 Pack | eBay

    Edit: Sorry, I actually searched the entire forum this time (not just the current thread :facepalm:) and found a few mentions. Saw your take on the 312 version in the READYxWICK thread and pdibs SKINNY XC-116 w/ MC thread. Also saw that this stuff needs to be kiln treated!?
     
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  4. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Nextel is a ultra high temp electrical wire insulation. It may be obtained from various industrial sources. However, it requires a specialized process to remove sizing which is not advisable to vape. Only one provider at this point performing the 3M recommended cleaning process to make this braided wick useful for our purposes and that is RBA Supplies (READYxWICK™). The Type 312 at 3mm is what I typically refer to. Others vary in fiber density, braiding and internal/external dimension. Only one provider at this point performing the 3M recommended cleaning process to make this braided wick useful for our purposes and that is RBA Supplies (READYxWICK™).


    Nextel ceramic wick has a long history of succesful use on ECF among the squonking and rda community which predates the intro of the micro and t.m.c. However, this media is far more capable than alternatives in flow and this can be to our advantage with the right productive tensioned geometry. The downside, it's limited by it's diameter which happens to be pretty ideal for most vapers under 75W.

    Recommend all try it. Especially new vapers for its practical efficiency.

    Good luck and let us know if we can help. :)
     
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  5. LilWhiteClouder

    LilWhiteClouder Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 1, 2015
    Raleigh, NC
    Awesome, thanks for the info. I'll check them out on RBA supplies site. I really like the fact that it can be dry burned to clean. With so many atties, and being somewhat of a lazy vaper, the most time consuming thing is rewicking after they sit for awhile (espicially if I plan to keep the coil build in them) Being able to dry burn before shelving them would be ideal.
     
  6. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Assuming you can limit wire surface erosion and warping of a contact coil, winds and surface oxidation can be maintained for some time. An example of high-power excessive surface wear and resulting erosion, retained symmetry and recycled Nextel at 6 mos+...


    Folks I bring up on RxW report good results with simple cleaning in place and dry burn with low power. This is what has allowed me to own and operate so many devices over the past three years as I test the t.m.c. on Protanks then Subtanks with various media and wire approaches. Today, 15 in operation. Too many for most to keep up. Especially when you wish to swap out a fair part of them every week.

    Do a search for Nextel, RxD or READYxWICK and my handle for posts on use and maintenance. Any questions, call out. Someone will def answer. Lots of vets with this powerful and flavorful wicking out there.

    Good luck. :)

    p.s. You're welcome!
     
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  7. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Just droppin' a link for ref on some general ideas…More watts for wider coils? | E-Cigarette Forum.

    Just a quick note for new builders hope'll save some time. It's sugars and flavoring components that gunk. They're sensitive to heat. Too much or too little power for the build will cook your juice. That's a mismatch of heat to juice availability. Also, airflow must match the juice flow or you'll get much the same. Best to find the happy center for your device combo and test the extremes of high or low power and flow from there. The geometry of the rda will tell you a lot about what it needs. If it looks wonky, it's likely to vape that way too.

    Good observation @Bonskibon.

    Good luck. :)
     
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  8. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Some notes on uneven firing, hotspots and maintenance from my remarks on Dual Coil Problem | Post #12 | E-Cigarette Forum

    You come right to the point. Variations in resistance graduate output. But apart from simple error, it is symmetry in production and application that assure parity of d/c operation. Why I've promoted the use of strain as an aid to assure consistency. Then you get this…


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    For a variety of reasons like differences in termination contact which should be cleared even if surface wire temps are close, you'll get unbalanced output. Once this starts if allowed to persist, it will. Even if you have a perfectly matched and uniformly oxidized pair it can develop in operation. Screws back off for example. More or less than adequate wicking contact can create more accretion on one part of an element. You dry burn these and suddenly find you're unbalanced in temp.

    Found that a minute bit of water, drop fractions, applied to hot zones or the hotter coil, will retard a wind's ramp up. This serves to help bring up heat on a laggard coil suppressing the effect of the higher resistance. Applied judicially, enough to produce the required lag of the hotter side, this will get the winds quickly firing in tandem. Keep a small bottle of distilled with a metal needle tip handy at all times. Also routinely hit points of accretion in use when detected. This keeps the twins smiling.

    Good luck. :)
     
  9. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    @nocigsnomore sorry that my mailbox is full. If your hello's about t.m.c.'s, sub tanks or rebuilding in general hit me here. Glad to chat.

    Good luck. :)

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  10. nocigsnomore

    nocigsnomore Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 18, 2014
    Land of Oz
    Hi MacTechVpr. Thanks for contacting me! :) Are microcoils suitable for subvaping?
     
  11. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Oh yeah, the above twisted-lead parallel in the Subtank is <.5Ω and the specs are mentioned earlier in the thread.

    I've found that t.m.c.'s are generally at least 20% more efficient than standard open/closed contact or multi wire winds. Although I do build these as well. The upshot is that since the vaporization rate is higher you can build to lower resistance than you might otherwise tolerate. That brings more volume potential. However, understand that you're producing more vapor density. Some folks can't handle that DL. MTL vapers love it. The trick is harnessing that extra vapor volume through diffusion by way of the build selection, greater airflow or drip-tip air.


    Once you have the single-wire performance down and stable with a t.m.c. at any resistance you then know what you can or should be expecting from any build of greater complexity. If you can't get that then maybe you're barkin' up the wrong tree. It's always great to know where the crossroads live.

    Why I encourage everyone especially new vapers to learn to nail the single straight-wire t.m.c. for starters. It's the everyday go-to for most that do and an awesome wind for the ADV.

    Good luck. :)
     
  12. nocigsnomore

    nocigsnomore Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 18, 2014
    Land of Oz
    Thank you so much for an interesting read! Looking forward to make a t.m.c.! Should I order the "Deluxe Coiling Gizmo" on Ebay? Or can I make my own jig?

    + Going to sleep now. Slept little lately. ZZZ Gnight! :)
     
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  13. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    You may find a jig easier in the long term. But I think the simplest way to find "sticky"…the point wires get tightest together naturally…is hand winding with a pin vise. Search for that on this thread and you'll prolly find some links if not yell and I'll be back at ya. With a PV you ought to get to a solid wind in a few attempts and things will improve from there. Jigs are great and I've used them but the tendency is to over tighten. This may actually get you less rather than more vapor. I find simple is faster and more effective.

    Good luck and look forward to helping if I can. :)

    p.s. Sleep you say, what's that? :D
     
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  14. nocigsnomore

    nocigsnomore Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 18, 2014
    Land of Oz
    Thank you so much! :) Sleep is when one is resetting the brain. Does wonders! :D
     
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  15. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    On the subject of the ongoing popularity and viability of mechanical mods, I wrote…

    Good luck. :) Vape on.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  16. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    If you want to be happy for the rest of your life
    Just build a contact coil for your wife
    And from my personal point of view…
    Jus' a little strain will get ya through

    Put one of these…

    Tensioned micro: 25/7/7 2.75mmØ=0.7995Ω
    17.12-22.06W @ 3.7-4.2V (4.63-5.25A) 134-173 mW/mm²


    in one of these…


    Good luck and Merry Christmas all. :)

    Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.
    Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

     
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  17. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    For info here, lifted my remarks re Protank top wicks from the thread Can I use 2 different types of wicks? | Page 4 | E-Cigarette Forum

    Quick and dirty…you're right on both counts.

    Factory clear coils were fabulously asymmetrical and frequently exhibited hot turns or leads. So a top-wick hid that.

    Did they know the coils were that poor?

    These coils were frequently not symmetrical within the assembly (cup) either. So a top-wick helped insulate the coil from shorting on the cup's top cap (chimney).

    But the primary functional purpose of the top-wick was to fill the gap that often remained in the slot above the wick itself. Although coils loosely matched the silica diameter they didn't really match (otherwise it just would've been nigh-near impossible to thread them). So the "flavor" wick filled that gap deterring flooding and over saturation. On the other hand, these overly-hot often shorting coils were cooled by the top-wick which somewhat improved flavor, i.e. less dry hitting from scorched or cooking wick spittin' at us. That is, if you like refried beans.


    All's well that ends well in that the tensioned micro and install methods solved these issues here…Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!. Details and more answers there if you need. Glad to help.

    (Love the tag line TB.)

    Good luck all. :)
     
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  18. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Happy VD to all vet and new subscribers. Good luck. :)
     
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  19. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    @ChelsB thx for the nod gal. Hope you're doing well. If you're not churning out t.m.c.'s yet or keepin' 'em in the zone, hail us. I've always loved the Protank and light gauge wire as the best testing media for perfecting them. They run pretty well at 75W+ too sharing all the efficiency advantages they exhibit in a clearo. I still vape them all and love it. When you're ready, give us a shout here with that project.

    pssst…My fav exit path is something like an Origen or 454 dripper and light wire Nextel verticals for an amazing surprise in vapor and flavor. Just sayin'. ;)

    Good luck. :)
     
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  20. ChelsB

    ChelsB Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 12, 2016
    California
    You can use a PT at 75+w???
     
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