Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[M_DuBb716]

fivefour, I took your advice and have been trying some standard 32gauge coils for my last 2 builds. My 1st was a 5/4 wrap of 32g on my 1/16inch bit, was about 1.8-1.9 ohms. The one I'm vaping now is 6/5 wraps, 2.0ohms, and vaping better than my 1st, spaced the coils better with this one also. My 1st 5 wrap build seemed to get too hot/too red in the middle, so I tried one more wrap.

It's been consistently giving me real good vapor and flavor. I want to try a standard, twisted 32g build next, like the pic you posted above.. I've never tried a twisted-coil build!

 

[humpstyles]

Just did a 100 proof vodka soak of about 5 EVOD heads and 3 PT3 heads a few nights ago, let them dry, and tonight I'm rebuilding them.

Rebuilt 2 EVODs so far; here is my third one. Had the coil on the far right crimp up on me a teeny bit, but it shouldn't affect it too much. The first one I built is vaping Boba's like a champ. No leaks, no gurgles, but the flavor isn't extraordinary. Don't get me wrong, it's delicious; it's just on par with the stock silica. Maybe it's the real taste of Boba's (since it's so hard to put a finger on). Who knows!

Think I'm going to try my first dual coil build for the PT3 after I'm done with these EVODs.

Then onto the Igo-W and the KF3.1

 

[f1vefour]

fivefour, I took your advice and have been trying some standard 32gauge coils for my last 2 builds. My 1st was a 5/4 wrap of 32g on my 1/16inch bit, was about 1.8-1.9 ohms. The one I'm vaping now is 6/5 wraps, 2.0ohms, and vaping better than my 1st, spaced the coils better with this one also. My 1st 5 wrap build seemed to get too hot/too red in the middle, so I tried one more wrap.

It's been consistently giving me real good vapor and flavor. I want to try a standard, twisted 32g build next, like the pic you posted above.. I've never tried a twisted-coil build!

I'm glad it works for you as well, twisted has a longer heat up but produces better flavor.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I'm glad it works for you as well, twisted has a longer heat up but produces better flavor.

I'm not so sure about that as a categorical conclusion f1ve. Maybe that it's partially true, sometimes.

MC's run cooler, that's efficiency. Cool. Twisted run's cooler still given the same wattage. Substantially more so when tensioned. I like them because I think they present even a greater surface contact area to the wick than straight wire. I couldn't give a hoot for convoluted, multi-stranded hijinks of knarly winds that simply present more surface to heat air. What matters when you're drivin' is the rubber that meets the road.

So I like twisted, a lot. Testing it extensively for my personal use. But given what I've said it kinda contradicts your conclusion. Tobacco flavors I'm very fond of do best warm, really warm. Although twisted may vaporize them efficiently those subtleties I'm talking about may not be as abundant. Tribeca is another example. There are subtle flavor notes that emerge when it's vaporized rather on the cool side like a carto tank, surrounded by liquid and the micro abundantly fed from the fill fiber envelope surrounding it. Those notes are def not there for me being taste sensitive in a dripper; and, for much the same reasons likely not with twisted in a Protank. Even with the copious wicking of Nextel. To be fair, I haven't tested that config but I think it's a reasonable expectation. And I think you see what I mean.

But little more power could do the trick for me with cool efficient winds and now that I have a ZNA30, dooya think? A nearly dry fire at 8W of this 31g dual 11 twist…this thing saw action at the Tampa convention this weekend and the honey's due for an overhaul of that rubber…





F1ve, as much as I advocate a standard of basics for clearo winds I don't believe there's any one geometry that's gonna suit everyone's tastes or the direction they choose in flavors. Best to give 'em the tools to diversify their hunt for the magic elixir killer! And I'm with you on that one. I love twisted. It's just not the generic be-all, do-all, flux capacitor wind that solves all clearo taste issues. Wish it were, it's sturdier in a Protank.

Just don't think I'm gonna run with a Protank on the ZNA.



Good luck.

 

[f1vefour]

LOL Mac, with the juices I vape twisted produces better everything. Everything I or anyone else says is always IMO, nothing is definitive.

1.3 ohm twisted 32g @ 4+ volts heats up almost instantaneously. I have been vaping tobacco for the past two days exclusively, I have a standard 2 ohm micro build in a pt2 and the above coil in the same thing both wicked with cotton. Both filled with same liquid, the twisted is almost twice as flavorful with about %20 of a warmer vape and perhaps %15 better vapor production when vaped @ the same wattage.

This has been across the board with all my juices, fruits..creams...tobaccos.

 

[MacTechVpr]

LOL Mac, with the juices I vape twisted produces better everything. Everything I or anyone else says is always IMO, nothing is definitive.[/QOTE]

1.3 ohm twisted 32g @ 4+ volts heats up almost instantaneously. I have been vaping tobacco for the past two days exclusively, I have a standard 2 ohm micro build in a pt2 and the above coil in the same thing both wicked with cotton. Both filled with same liquid, the twisted is almost twice as flavorful with about %20 of a warmer vape and perhaps %15 better vapor production when vaped @ the same wattage.

This has been across the board with all my juices, fruits..creams...tobaccos.

I hear ya. You are one lucky tobacco party animal, aren'tcha?



I chase nuances with 31/32 twists. That's gotten me closer in some respects. I've got 31 mods now and just about every popular kind of atomizer device in use. It's costs me far more effort than money. Then there are the spectacular and unexpected exceptions. I have a tortured invalid of a ravaged veteran Trident that produces more flavor and vapor per volt than a couple of my Immo's put together. It is an anomaly. It runs the very first tension wind I did for a B&M demo at 28g, 9, on 5/64" @ 1.4Ω, if I recall, and I've published pictures with it's story on supe's thread. It is perfection, but not twisted.

So go figure. It's all good f1ve. But just when you least expect it, life surprises you. And it may turn out that my first was the best ever. For no other reason than…it just was.

Good luck.

 

[f1vefour]

OT : How you like that ZNA?

 

[MacTechVpr]

OT : How you like that ZNA?

Totally OT but…it's quite beyond my expectations. Very smooth, deliberate precise switch in fit and function. Efficient, very. Vapes clouds at 8W on 29tp 11dc 5/64 @ .8Ω Helios. I had a grand time working the booth with it for nimbus9vape.com at the convention. You can produce clouds of pretty much any magnitude with it on demand with the 490's. And flavor as well but I haven't optimized that yet as I've had to radically down-nic recently. And the Helios while an excellent drip is not the ideal for this although a perfect complement to the mod. I can't run my Immo's on it. The 510's are too long for the non-adj screw. I understand that a fix is in the works. I need to have an extra brass Steam Monkey tube indexed by Zen. I know Lance having spoken with him, read his stuff and know it'll be worked out to satisfaction. He is just real, and he gets you. His biz is a true labor of personal passion and probably one of the most under-rated enterprises in this industry. And that is evident by his contributions to the public knowledge through reddit, his blog and elsewhere. I'm really pleased to have met him finally after having had several biz and product related convo's with him for some time.




As for the mod, the shape of things to come. It has made me consider that perhaps the generous collection of fine production I've so far acquired is mostly just interesting. This mod is compelling. Perhaps the best article of vaping extant from both a functional and collectors standpoint. A testament to vaping form and function. Mine was the last of the first production run I believe. I will be purchasing another in brass which I would have preferred for the first. No matter. Not perfect in its first iteration but then I owned one of the first 2000 Macintosh computers. And I was right then, as I am now. Need I say more.

Good luck. Get one.

 

[f1vefour]

Thanks for your thoughts on it, looks great.

 

[M_DuBb716]

Back into the Contact-Coil game!! lol, I've been building standard 32g coils (non-contact) for the past couple weeks or so.. But decided to wrap my a microcoil tonight - I thought I'd be a little rusty after non doing any contact coils for a couple weeks, but damn I did a good job on this one, by looking at it!! Hand wound it under tension, 10 wraps of 30g on my 1/16in bit, coming in at 2.0ohms.

About to vape on it now. I know I never come through on the pics, but I got lots of pics of this one because of how nice it looked hah. Can't believe I hand-wound it so nice, especially after only wrapping regular coils for a couple weeks.
.... It's soaking up juice now and I'm about to try it out. I bet it's going to vape amazing, after not trying a microcoil in a while!!

styles, that's a great looking coil, especially if it's one of your first!! Mac, that ZNA!!! A local vape store near me has been selling very limited stocks of that exact ZNA (actually ZNA20 I believe), once every couple weeks or so - it looks amazing, but I don't know if I could spend around $300 for it. I'm seriously debating it though, that thing looks niceee

Maybe I should get that ZNA. After that I can definitely have a good reason to get my first dripper/rebuildable.. And try some twisted coils and duals and some of those other crazy builds!

 

[quiter]

I don't want to sound lazy but I'm sorry to say I didn't read this entire thread, so the answer might be there, but it's huge. Please forgive me if this has already been answered. How do you get these things to be more airy? I'm really more of a dripper and have been for years. But I ended up with a couple of these for next to nothing and I can't stand them. It's like sucking a milkshake through a tiny straw. I rebuilt the one and I like the taste just fine and it would be nice to have a tank for going out and about with, but I just can't get over the lack of air flow. I have tried them on 5 different mods and none of them allow enough air for me to enjoy it. I do have other tanks including a new G-pulse but would like these to work.

Is there a trick I'm missing?

Thanks.

 

[f1vefour]

You can either get the AeroTank base or drill out the airflow holes on the base.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Back into the Contact-Coil game!! lol, I've been building standard 32g coils (non-contact) for the past couple weeks or so.. But decided to wrap my a microcoil tonight - I thought I'd be a little rusty after non doing any contact coils for a couple weeks, but damn I did a good job on this one, by looking at it!! Hand wound it under tension, 10 wraps of 30g on my 1/16in bit, coming in at 2.0ohms.

Damn holmes, that's like perfekt!

(Wait'll ya tension wind that noise.)



Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Back into the Contact-Coil game!! lol...Mac, that ZNA!!! A local vape store near me has been selling very limited stocks of that exact ZNA (actually ZNA20 I believe), once every couple weeks or so - it looks amazing, but I don't know if I could spend around $300 for it. I'm seriously debating it though, that thing looks niceee

Maybe I should get that ZNA. After that I can definitely have a good reason to get my first dripper/rebuildable.. And try some twisted coils and duals and some of those other crazy builds!

LOLOLOL

If you get that ZNA you will be spoiled for other women for the rest of your life. There's a lot of outstanding production out there and I wouldn't want to see you do that to yourself. On the other hand…might be a good thing. I'll PM's ya.

Unless Perfection's offering a deal on the 6 left, I got the 30 for less at the convention. Then again, you'll have to wait for the 2nd round. There will be improvements. My strategy has been to buy a clone, or clones of different manufacturers and put the devices through their paces. It has served me well. Can't do that with this item. It's a leap of faith based on anecdotal testimony. But technically, we know what the chip can do. The rest is trust in Zen/Steam Monkey's precision depending on how you go.

Let's compare some notes on the mech's when you have a chance. To come back on topic, I've been able to translate many of the coils I've used on the KPT to drippers, or the configs and wind values have served as useful guides for resistance. This thread, to those wise enough to avail themselves of it, is invaluable. Thank you M…for inspiring us.

Repayin' right back atcha. LOL

Good luck.

 

[M_DuBb716]

lol Mac, Perfection Vapes!! That's the place. It's about a 25minute drive away from me.. I've only been there once (there's a few vape shops closer to me), I stopped by there once and paid $32 for the PT2, because I was in the area and they were the 1st ones to have it. Haven't been back since lol

quiter, like 5 said, I heard the Aero base helps a lot. Or you could get the Version 1 Protank, which is a bit airier than the PT2 and others.

As for the 30g microcoil I built last night, it looks perfect. On a test fire, it glowed perfectly from the inside out, before I even compressed it! But the flavor really seems muted, and throat hit not as strong as the standard non-contact coils I've been building.. I've been building regular (32g) coils for the past couple weeks, because they constantly have been giving me realllyy good flavor and vapor, pretty much every one I build.
..... Maybe I should try a 31g micro, or even 32g? It could also be my wicking, I believe I used slightlyy too much cotton. Getting lots of crackling/sizzling & popping though, no frying sound (like the cotton is dry).

I'll post the pics in a minute

 

[MacTechVpr]

As for the 30g microcoil I built last night, it looks perfect. On a test fire, it glowed perfectly from the inside out, before I even compressed it! But the flavor really seems muted, and throat hit not as strong as the standard non-contact coils I've been building.. I've been building regular (32g) coils for the past couple weeks, because they constantly have been giving me realllyy good flavor and vapor, pretty much every one I build.
..... Maybe I should try a 31g micro, or even 32g? It could also be my wicking, I believe I used slightlyy too much cotton. Getting lots of crackling/sizzling & popping though, no frying sound (like the cotton is dry).

Classic description of an overpowered coil, undersaturated wick. If you had a dripper you'd recognize the symptom instantly.

It seems you mastered the body mechanics for cotton in a standard wind. You still execute them perfectly M. That's good, great muscle memory. Now retrain the muscles to do it for a tight wind and you'll be in heaven. No question a cooler more uniform coil can only improve your properly terminated 32g experience.

It may be simplistic but I wrote on the Protank cotton thread…

Wicking cotton is more of an art than a science. Cut a section about twice the diameter of the coil and just long enough to work with, about 1 1/2". DO NOT compress it, twist it or try to make a wick of it other than to lightly press it into a uniform roundness. Make a a needle tip from one end and insert that through the coil. Gently tug until you meet resistance (it doesn't want to go further without adding force). It should go in easily until then with a .07" coil Ø (a bit harder to tell with 1/16" as it's more affected by variations in the cotton density itself). When it starts to resist it means you're compressing it too much. Forcing more in can choke the wick and you won't get enough juice. It will run dry and burn. You should get at least 1/4" past that slot usually. Enough that you have to cut off more than the needle to stay within the boundary of the of assembly flange. That's where you cut it. Dampen it thoroughly before installing or firing it or you will scorch and ruin it (maybe even catch it on fire)! And yer done.

First…I do not boil cotton. I try to preserve as much of the natural fiber density as possible. Boiling matts and clumps the fibers together compromising its internal geometry and so flow. Turns it from a grassy stream to the gnarled winding undergrowth of a delta swamp. I'm using various diameters all the way down to .07 (1.75) but not 1/16" and all the drippers I use like the natural density. It may be too much for a Protank but I don't think so if it's kept adequately dry (dried out on top-offs, not over-chained, or battery over-burdened). I do not twirl or rope it and if you go to .07", the widest possible in the slot, you likely may not need a flavor wick. You may as the cotton breaks in though and the top of the slot opens up. I prefer to use Eko which saturates almost as exceedingly well as cotton for a top-wick. Sometimes surgical gauze.

You haven't described the circumstances where you experience the dry hit. When you first start vaping the full tank? What is the fill state? What wattage when it happens? And I take it about 2Ω? I think a Protank is well underperforming at 32g. But I also know that unless the setup is tight and wick/coil properly coordinated you flood a Protank easily. You can throw power at a 32 but you can't with cotton. I did that test and could not approach 10W without drying it out. So let me know if you like M and I'll try to duplicate your set. We'll get this sorted out, k?

I'm in the process of screening 31 AWG. I haven't run enough intervals to trust because I am having grommet issues. Slippage which I've described. Don't know if it's the change in atmospheric conditions here in S FL in Winter but I've noted for some time that more recent grommets seem more slippery. I'm discarding too many results at the moment because I can't seem to put some on the cargo-meter twice in a row for the same read. Also grommets seem to be slipping further into the assembly with screw-down. That definitely can affect resistance. I resorted recently to torching leads to aid in keeping them grounding, which I hate to do, but it hasn't helped much. And the first and only pure silicone Kanger grommet assy. I've used gave me different reads for three days before it settled in, finally, and beautifully into it's correct resistance. Baffling.

You LMK M, good luck.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

So, is this where you hang out Mac? Looks interesting!

 

[MacTechVpr]

So, is this where you hang out Mac? Looks interesting!

Yep Bill, http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html is where I hang my shingle…LOL. Otherwise known as...The great contact vs. non-contact coil face off!!!

I did my first tensioned contact m.c. a month after I quit in Jul last year. I realized Vivi's hand winds and the pitiful circuit arrangement of the 510 defied all logic. I remembered a veteran line engineer's sage advice, an efficient hat-trick with wire on a pin vise and mandrel. Tried it myself and did the face palm.

I lurked on ECF for a couple of months realizing that some, many, had got it right. But shortly after looking around here it dawned on me that the story wasn't getting out. That the misinformed and under-informed were leading the inexperienced. So I started working out build symmetry, coil geometry and termination on... http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tips-tricks/463771-protank-cotton-rebuild-way-i-do.html; then, I set out here to expound on approaches like tension to optimize the electrical characteristics of m.c.'s. and further refine tight building methods. It's been an arduous process culminating with my posts on http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/coil-builds/416271-micro-coils-increase-vapor-flavor-th.html.

Since this process began with the invaluable help and understanding of many participants including our excellent OP, m_dubb716, I believe some important strides have been made developing an understanding of how Protank style clearo's actually work (or don't). And it's not that this information isn't available, it is, spread all over ECF.

So what do you do in a culture so unfocused anything more than two sentences is TL/DR? I did it anyway.

The effort in this instance was to organize it as coherently as possible given the venue, a forum thread. Without resorting to video antics. I chose the example method assisting individuals with specific problems I was targeting myself in my consumer research study. The goal has been to use these opportunities to articulate a paradigm for consistent build strategies so that newcomers can rapidly succeed to advanced rebuilding. It's far from perfect, but it's a start.

And there you have it. I'm glad you have joined the fray on http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/coil-builds/416271-micro-coils-increase-vapor-flavor-th.html. Thanks for looking in.

Good luck Bill.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Yep Bill, http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html is where I hang my shingle…LOL. Otherwise known as...The great contact vs. non-contact coil face off!!!

I did my first tensioned contact m.c. a month after I quit in Jul last year. I realized Vivi's hand winds and the pitiful circuit arrangement of the 510 defied all logic. I remembered a veteran line engineer's sage advice, an efficient hat-trick with wire on a pin vise and mandrel. Tried it myself and did the face palm.

I lurked on ECF for a couple of months realizing that some, many, had got it right. But shortly after looking around here it dawned on me that the story wasn't getting out. That the misinformed and under-informed were leading the inexperienced. So I started working out build symmetry, coil geometry and termination on... http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tips-tricks/463771-protank-cotton-rebuild-way-i-do.html; then, I set out here to expound on approaches like tension to optimize the electrical characteristics of m.c.'s. and further refine tight building approaches. It's been an arduous process culminating with my posts on http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/coil-builds/416271-micro-coils-increase-vapor-flavor-th.html.

Since this process began with the invaluable help and understanding of many participants including our excellent OP, m_dubb716, I believe some important strides have been made developing an understanding of how Protank style clearo's actually work (or don't). And it's not that this information isn't available, it is, spread all over ECF.

So what do you do in a culture so unfocused anything more than two sentences is TL/DR? I did it anyway.

The effort in this instance was to organize it as coherently as possible given the venue, a forum thread. Without resorting to video antics. I chose the example method assisting individuals with specific problems I was targeting myself in my consumer research study. The goal has been to use these opportunities to articulate a paradigm for consistent build strategies so that newcomers can rapidly succeed to advanced rebuilding. It's far from perfect, but it's a start.

And there you have it. I'm glad you have joined the fray on http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/coil-builds/416271-micro-coils-increase-vapor-flavor-th.html. Thanks for looking in.

Good luck Bill.

Well that summed it up really nice! What does it mean, LOL?

Just kidding. For the rest of you, Mac knows his stuff, as I'm sure you've learned, and if you have the opportunity to learn from him, your vape will improve 200% in the next 30 days. I know mine did. He has some crazy notions about all sorts of very involved vaping experiences, techniques, science, mechanics, theories, etc. Turns out he was right all along. I've spent a bit of time researching Mac's theories, and they are totally science based, I'm happy to report. Great job, my friend!

I may follow this post, Mac, it looks really interesting! My coil building experience actually started on the Protank last June. I don't think I built micro coils in them, but compared to the stock heads, mine were just fine. Of course, all I use now is the micro coil, and if you guys have found a way to get it perfected in the Protank, then that's a huge advance, and a tremendous vape potentially. All I ever use anymore, and I use a tank too, these days. No reason a Protank can't be an RTA, right? Anyway, just saying hello all. Keep up the good work! All the best OP! Power up and Vape On!

 

[quiter]

Thanks for the reply guys.

I already drilled out holes and that didn't do enough. One of the two tanks is a pro-tank 1 the other a pro-tank 2. Even with the holes punched out they are still not airy enough for me. I'll check out the special bottom and see. Otherwise I'll probably just pass these on to someone who likes them better than me.

Thanks again.