Almost exactly how i feel. Another reason why i still use the Iclear 30s is that for my naturally extracted tobaccos, i prefer the warmer vapor top coils provide, and also the slightly muted effect of the sweet undertones or overtones or whatever everyone talks about ! I find my net's to be a little too sweet using a kayfun type device for example.
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Almost exactly how i feel. Another reason why i still use the Iclear 30s is that for my naturally extracted tobaccos, i prefer the warmer vapor top coils provide, and also the slightly muted effect of the sweet undertones or overtones or whatever everyone talks about ! I find my net's to be a little too sweet using a kayfun type device for example.
"it's all about the wick when it comes to taste and flavor. We want as much wick as possible, whenever possible. It has to fit the form factor and comform to the performance spec's (or limitations as in the KPT) of the overall build — mod, batt and element. "Youza! Your above observation is right on the money.
I wish I had time to answer you all on your specific questions. My calendar has filled up this week. I can tell you briefly I intend to write on these two subjects. First, Nextel XC-132 threads very easily into .07" which is the ideal Ø for this media and typical clearo assemblies. Secondly, following a brief test with a conventional (non-tension) micro on 5/64" I confirmed my very early experiences with Nextel in Kanger's, etc. Nextel REQUIRES a contact fit. In fact, in every atomizer there should be a uniform contact fit of wick to coil. Any high spots will be hot, uncooled by juice and basically vaporizing air. Result…a warmer drier vape which to some may seem, "ah, awesome, airflow." NOT. What you have is a hot element, a marginal short.
In the limited test I did I experienced something that I have for some time virtually eliminated…rapid discoloration (darkening, scorching) of eliquid. That happened within 24-hours! To me proof positive, irrefutable, that the above is taking place. Because that is the fastest way to discolor juice, rapidly overheat it. However, the overwhelmingly RED FLAG evidence of an oversized coil was the extreme overheating of the KPT while chaining, routine for me, sometimes in just six pulls. Too hot to the touch!
I painstakingly built this 5/64" reprise of early experimentation, making sure that termination was flawless, resistance on target precisely and a dark room test for any thermal indication of a high spot or lead during pulse burn in. The result is to my view then very obviously the wicking which was loose.
There is an optimal for each device. We can't remake or reinvent that no matter how accomplished modder's we think we might be. And no amount of vertical or any which way we can do it is going to change that. We are confined by the physics. Push the envelope maybe (I did here). But if you want a great vape, conform your build to the best identified capabilities of the device.
That's what I've been sayin' folks. From the get go.
Get yer tools right here on this thread.
Good luck.
So what you are saying is that we want the ideal amount of wick, which doesn't explain much as to the correct amount in and of itself. I suppose i wanted a one sentence response to spell out the correct amount for the kpt ! So basically try to make as much contact with all parts of the coil as evenly as possible without choking ?
Let me turn that statement on it's head. We build the coil to fit the wick. Sorta like we choose a good belt.
And as I said in my earlier post. Nextel, in some respects even more so Ekowool require a very precise fit to function optimally as wicks. And also in general terms we want no loose coils spoiling an otherwise tight build.
Bearing that in mind. We look at what we want to vape, in what, how (what temperature). That narrows down our choices of device and coil configuration quite a bit. Most of all the wick media. Quick and dirty around town in a clearo, silica may well do. It's disposable, good for a day or two before gunking and flexible regarding diameters (most compressible next to cotton). Durability, neutrality, precision, etc. you go Nextel. But then you probably are not going to be happy with in a dripper; it doesn't saturate as well as cotton, silica or Eko.
I think you get where I'm going. We're cooking here. And YMV happens to be true, but that depends on our choices. Like, what pot we choose to juice in. It's not just try 6/5 to get this or that. And the twisted pair is not one-size-fits-all. The microcoil has opened our universe and senses. And more products and options like Nextel and precision controllable wattage are what we need to explore them.
We're not in Kansas anymore Dorothy.
Good luck.
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Very well said, Mac.
Just built my 1st microcoil in a week or 2, been sticking to standard non-contact coils lately for my Protanks. But decided to switch it up tonight too, I did 9 wraps of 30g kanthal on my 1/16in (1.58mm) bit, instead of my usual 10 wraps. Coming in at 1.7ohms on my eVic, as expected.
It's not perfect but it's a pretty nice looking coil, most of the wraps touching, and it glowed red from the inside out on the 1st test-fire before I compressed it any. I think I actually deformed it a bit after compressing it a few times with tweezers (like I usually do! lol)..
Hopefully it vapes good because this was the very last of my kanthal!
Just built my 1st microcoil in a week or 2, been sticking to standard non-contact coils lately for my Protanks. But decided to switch it up tonight too, I did 9 wraps of 30g kanthal on my 1/16in (1.58mm) bit, instead of my usual 10 wraps. Coming in at 1.7ohms on my eVic, as expected.
It's not perfect but it's a pretty nice looking coil, most of the wraps touching, and it glowed red from the inside out on the 1st test-fire before I compressed it any. I think I actually deformed it a bit after compressing it a few times with tweezers (like I usually do! lol)..
Hopefully it vapes good because this was the very last of my kanthal!
Sounds great. I have found that with proper tension, I don't need to compress my coil. I have gone to the extreme, in this regard, and built a special jig to help create tension, adhesion and compression. All that is required is to fire the coil a few times to create the metallic oxide layers on the coil, wick it, and then I'm ready to vape. Here's a shot of a rig I use:Very well said, Mac.
Just built my 1st microcoil in a week or 2, been sticking to standard non-contact coils lately for my Protanks. But decided to switch it up tonight too, I did 9 wraps of 30g kanthal on my 1/16in (1.58mm) bit, instead of my usual 10 wraps. Coming in at 1.7ohms on my eVic, as expected.
It's not perfect but it's a pretty nice looking coil, most of the wraps touching, and it glowed red from the inside out on the 1st test-fire before I compressed it any. I think I actually deformed it a bit after compressing it a few times with tweezers (like I usually do! lol)..
Hopefully it vapes good because this was the very last of my kanthal!
One can certainly duplicate these results fairly closely by hand. Adding the correct side tensioning, though, would require some assistance, but you can still get fairly close by hand, and using a hand coil wrap has the advantage of "feel" that I don't get with equipment. On the other hand, I can wrap about a coil every minute or so, and complete my coil building for the month in a few minutes. Since I make coils for other house members, I do need to make quite a few coils every month, and I'm picky about precision. Good luck to you and get some more kanthal. I'm using 28 and 29 at the moment. YMMV.
Very well said, Mac.
Just built my 1st microcoil in a week or 2, been sticking to standard non-contact coils lately for my Protanks. But decided to switch it up tonight too, I did 9 wraps of 30g kanthal on my 1/16in (1.58mm) bit, instead of my usual 10 wraps. Coming in at 1.7ohms on my eVic, as expected.
It's not perfect but it's a pretty nice looking coil, most of the wraps touching, and it glowed red from the inside out on the 1st test-fire before I compressed it any. I think I actually deformed it a bit after compressing it a few times with tweezers (like I usually do! lol)..
Hopefully it vapes good because this was the very last of my kanthal!
Thanks M, nice to see you back. I'm bleedin' here. I'd love to see you get that perfect wrap…
With not quite enough tension to hold it together, I think you might be tryin' a tad too hard or maybe just too careful. Just below the threshold to keep it together. Or maybe you're just baiting me to finally make that video. LOL My tightest conventional contact coil on 1/16" I published here was 1.81Ω and I hit it dozens of times. Tensioned it and it became 1.73Ω (-1.74) on the best tries. But I'll grant you M, you're consistent. I often wonder if you're counting the same way or if you're using something other than TEMCO. I'm on the Ø of the Month Club with TEMCO or I'd be likely to be knockin' on doors in the middle of the night for my wire fix.
A technique that takes all the guesswork out of tension:
Hold the spool (or wire) with a small vice grips, a needle nose or locked forceps between your knees. With elbows resting on your thighs and the wire extending from the spool, etc. forward of your knees to your hands…start your first wrap hand-over-hand then holding both ends of the screwdriver pull the screwdriver away until its taught but not strained, just tight. Gingerly start your turns…2, 3 then begin slightly adding tension. When you see them stack up right on each other add and maintain just a slight bit more tension…and you're there. At the very most the first 2 or 3 may be shy of adhesion but all ensuing should be pulling together on examination. If not, there wasn't enough tension.
This technique is perfect for spool or strain or tension winding sections of wire, particularly larger gauge wire or twisted which may or not be on a spool. Another use is the winding of calculated (for resistance) lengths of wire where you don't want to exceed a certain total resistance and have measured out the precise length required. I sometimes do this as a cross-check to metered results when in doubt (adding a known working length, say a 1/2" to each of the leads, which is removed at termination for the final yield).
Good luck M.
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My credit card officially hates you! *checks balance for trip to hardware store*
You can still do this by hand! I started my "Coiler" with something like this:
You can get the wire coiling gizmo at most hobby shops, or Amazon also has them for under $10 delivered:
Amazon.com: Artistic Wire Coiling Gizmo(R) Deluxe Winder for Jewelry Making: Arts, Crafts & Sewing
I added the nuts, spring, washers and screw to create a "leg catcher." This set has 5 mandrels. Several sets out there have only two mandrels.
My next incarnation of the BMV Coiler V1 added the spooler (originally for solder):
The gizmo works pretty well. However, when I added the spooler, which added "hand drag" to the coil (the spring helped a little bit), and improved tensioning, I noticed that the mandrel started to deflect with enough pressure/drag/resistance applied.
Additionally, what I found is that once I could create a proper coil on the gizmo, my hand wraps improved, as well. All this led to the BMV Coiler 2.0, that added the Cobra Coiler, and adjustable drag (from fishing reel), in the BMV Coiler 2.0, shown in my previous post.
For a list of parts used in the coiler that I use, go here:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/bill-s-magic-vapor/5819-bmv-coiler-2-o.html.
Good luck in your coil building! Ciao.
Thanks for the great input guys, and Bill wow that is a cool jig!! Something like that would really help me out. Another thing that will help is getting a spool (or 4) of kanthal next time! I'm not sure if what I'm using is TEMco because I've been getting it from a local B&M.
... But next time I'll make sure I get Temco. And I'm 100% positive on my # of wraps, because I use my digi cam to take a macro-picture of the coil so I can see it super close up. I zoom in on the picture to count, I won't depend on counting wraps as I wrap them or trying to count them with my naked eye
... But next time I'll make sure I get Temco. And I'm 100% positive on my # of wraps, because I use my digi cam to take a macro-picture of the coil so I can see it super close up. I zoom in on the picture to count, I won't depend on counting wraps as I wrap them or trying to count them with my naked eye
By the way, this 1.7ohm micro I built last night has been vaping pretty well. Lots of vapor and a super-quick response time (expected with the lower resistance & less wraps than I usually use). But the flavor doesn't seem as complex and dense, and well, flavorful, as my standard non-contact (32gauge) builds on my Protank, have been. This is why I haven't been building many microcoils lately, I want that good juicy flavor! lol
I know I wicked it perfectly with cotton. Hopefully I'll have this figured out soon though
I know I wicked it perfectly with cotton. Hopefully I'll have this figured out soon though
And throat-hit is missing too in this microcoil.... I just can't figure out why I get perfect flavor and TH almost everytime I build and wick a standard, non-contact (spaced 32g) coil on my protank. But when I build a near perfect microcoil, it usually gives me good vapor, but the flavor and throat hit just seems so bland. My regular coils have been so much better lately, in terms of overall vapor production also, for some reason.
I want to figure this out.. Maybe I should try some 31g or 32g microcoil builds, instead of the 30g I have been usually using? And I definitely need to do some true tension building, like Mac and Bill's techniques!
I want to figure this out.. Maybe I should try some 31g or 32g microcoil builds, instead of the 30g I have been usually using? And I definitely need to do some true tension building, like Mac and Bill's techniques!
I came to the same conclusion after doing every kind of build I could think of, to me non-contact evenly spaced 32g at about 7 wraps gives me the best vape.
I figure it is a wicking/heat issue in such confined quarters. I also think factory coils are intentionally designed with a tighter center and loose ends, this improves wicking because the outside wraps aren't vaporizing the liquid before it can reach the center of the wick/coil.
I build what works best for me, in the PT this is evenly spaced non-contact coils at 2.0 ohms.
Hmmm, as I recall you and I have similar flavor/temp targets at 2Ω, 8W. Can you confirm f1ve? And what wick/s you are using? Interesting observation.
If it's workin' for you, stay with it is all I can say. I went through a good dry spell, lol, at the beginning of the year where everything tasted very bland…except any trace of singe or off flavor. I was utterly sensitive to the most insignificant wrong flavor but I wasn't getting the peaks I typically enjoy. At the moment my taste buds seem to be hyper sensitized as I'm experiencing the opposite. Or, maybe I've just returned to my normal overly sensitive state the past two months. We all go through phases fella's just like the seasons and it's probably no coincidence.
Hang in there M. I think you're on to something there with the wire given the difficulties you've experienced attaining adhesion. Most unusual. The two workshops/workgroups I'm participating in are uniformly TEMCO/VAPO (same thing) wire and I see a pretty uniform result from participants.
Good luck and LMK f1ve please.
p.s. Loose ends eventually cause shorts. And I don't necessarily disagree with your statement. The stop-it-dead-in-its-tracks solution to hot end turns and burny grommets I determined convincingly to be abruptly ended with a tensioned termination of the leads and equalizing the outboard turn tension to closely match the tension applied to the coil. If not…lower resistance will typically be exhibited initially or intermittently as tank is removed then relocated to the 510 than the actual or appropriate for the wind. This [varying resistance] has proven to me to be a primary indicator of loose tension in the build.
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Five4, what kind of spaced-build do you usually do? 7 wraps of 32g with cotton, on a drill bit? When I was still getting factory-made coils for the PT, I noticed that a lot of them had a larger space in the middle of the coil. I heard this was to keep it from getting too hot, since the middle gets the hottest. I usually try to keep my outside wraps pretty tight and close together myself. Thanks for the reply!
Thanks again Mac, everything you're saying makes sense. I'm hoping things will change when I try your tension-wind technique, right from a spool.
....... Trust me, it really pains me to say what I've stated in my last 2 replies, while on Page 82 of my own "Protank Contact-Coil" discussion/thread!!
Thanks again Mac, everything you're saying makes sense. I'm hoping things will change when I try your tension-wind technique, right from a spool.
....... Trust me, it really pains me to say what I've stated in my last 2 replies, while on Page 82 of my own "Protank Contact-Coil" discussion/thread!!
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I just hope I don't have to buy the plane ticket for the personal demonstration. LOL
Off to a vendor meetup. Have a great day all, and good luck.
I do like to vape the PT @ 8 watts somewhere around 2 ohms.
I have had good luck with your chart Mac, it's just I get muted flavor with contact coils and cotton.
I even picked up some 2+mm peaches & cream cotton yarn so I would have consistent density. I need to give ceramic and hemp a try.
I have had good luck with your chart Mac, it's just I get muted flavor with contact coils and cotton.
I even picked up some 2+mm peaches & cream cotton yarn so I would have consistent density. I need to give ceramic and hemp a try.
Been trying to find Mac's chart. Having trouble without my computer. Can someone kindly direct me to said chart?
Thanks in advance.
Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk. Excuse typos and stupid autocorrect errors.
I'm sorry to hear that. You def are on target (for the best flavor/vapor production on the KPT). If anything I'm suffering something quite the opposite at the moment with some juices and its more akin to flavor overload. Particularly with this excellent Gambit emulation I've grown fond of in everything. The one thing I have not tried it in is a Protank and Nextel.
(Maybe I need to lower the wattage on this ZNA30? Do ya think???)
I'm running tests right now with standard hand-over-hand winds again using Nextel in the newer pro tanks and find it satisfactory if a little bit bland. So I'm not sure if ceramic braid will do it for ya. But it's worth a shot I guess. Generally I would agree, cotton is best. There are braided silica versions of Nextel and Ekowool to consider as well. But they would require a bit more effort to wick, methinks.
Good luck f1ve. I feel ya.
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