Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[Mazinny]

Here's a thought. How about a vaporizer that you buy, at whatever cost, doesn't really matter, but that does what you want, so you can enjoy your vape? How about a regulated and integrated device that we buy, add a cartridge or something, and then we command the vaporizer to, "Vaporizer.....please increase my vapor output. More density please....warmer, warmer again.....need a double shot of nic now...ok, Vaporizer, entering public building, back down vapor, more....thank you vaporizer." Instead, we quibble about coil size, air flow, wicking materials, resistance, etc. I want a Smart Vaporizer, and I want our most talented engineers on the planet to get on this problem right now....pretty please? I've already had to learn about 101 things that I didn't need to know, just so I can have a great vape, and I'm pretty good at it too....but why?

Such a device would be priceless, would change the world, and no one would smoke....well, you know what I mean. Why? Because vaping would be magnitudes better in terms of experience and satisfaction. This isn't science fiction either. All of these technologies exist right now. We just need to do it. This new Unicorn/Dream Vaporizer would allow us to adjust the vape, not the elements that effect the vape, many of which can be, collectively, counter-productive. How about a real all-day battery? Shouldn't all vaporizers have a USB connection? OMG, why do we all have to become little mini-engineers, metal workers, electrical designers, fluid dynamics expert, etc., all to try to get a satisfying vape? Why doesn't all juice taste like the real thing? If I want strawberries and cream, why do 80% of the juices suck? I want a Smart Vaporizer that does what I command it to do, not learn circuit design and Bernoulli's Law. Why do vaporizers leak, wicks burn, coils short, etc.? Shouldn't someone smarter than I am work out all of these kinks and allow me to adjust the features of my vape, not the engineering of my vape? And, we're not even going in the right direction for this. Yes, we are miles ahead of where we were, but come'on, a device that is designed with the ability to adjust vapor and vapor temperature and vapor density and amount of nicotine (without changing juice), should be within the grasp of the world's brightest people. Let them do the engineering, I'll pay whatever they want, just give me what I want. Pretty please?

Oh, and smaller i.d. micro coils do work better. Bombarding a poorly performing coil and wick with massive wattage is not the same as achieving the effect with normal power levels. It's a physics problem, not an opinion, and YES, YMMV.

Good luck all and forgive my musings. I don't post too often anymore, but this has been on my mind.....

I think regulatory uncertainty and unenforceabilty of patents in China, might have something to do with why talented scientists at bigger corporations are not working on perfecting the vape experience. Having said that, we all know that the entire industry is less than a decade old. How much did cars, televisions, pc's etc... improve in their first decade in the market.

You may very well be right about smaller i.d. coils, but terms like " work better " or " taste better " are not scientific terms. You must first define measurable attributes of the vapor that constitute better taste, or of the coil that define better performance. Until then, it's still an opinion imo. Now, the opinion might be shared among the vast majority of experienced vapors whose expertise and experience you respect, and you might have personal anecdotal evidence as well, but still, it's an opinion and not scientific fact

 

[MacTechVpr]

Here's a thought. How about a vaporizer that you buy, at whatever cost, doesn't really matter, but that does what you want, so you can enjoy your vape? How about a regulated and integrated device that we buy, add a cartridge or something, and then we command the vaporizer to, "Vaporizer.....please increase my vapor output. More density please....warmer, warmer again.....need a double shot of nic now...ok, Vaporizer, entering public building, back down vapor, more....thank you vaporizer." Instead, we quibble about coil size, air flow, wicking materials, resistance, etc. I want a Smart Vaporizer, and I want our most talented engineers on the planet to get on this problem right now....pretty please? I've already had to learn about 101 things that I didn't need to know, just so I can have a great vape, and I'm pretty good at it too....but why?

Such a device would be priceless, would change the world, and no one would smoke....well, you know what I mean. Why? Because vaping would be magnitudes better in terms of experience and satisfaction. This isn't science fiction either. All of these technologies exist right now. We just need to do it. This new Unicorn/Dream Vaporizer would allow us to adjust the vape, not the elements that effect the vape, many of which can be, collectively, counter-productive. How about a real all-day battery? Shouldn't all vaporizers have a USB connection? OMG, why do we all have to become little mini-engineers, metal workers, electrical designers, fluid dynamics expert, etc., all to try to get a satisfying vape? Why doesn't all juice taste like the real thing? If I want strawberries and cream, why do 80% of the juices suck? I want a Smart Vaporizer that does what I command it to do, not learn circuit design and Bernoulli's Law. Why do vaporizers leak, wicks burn, coils short, etc.? Shouldn't someone smarter than I am work out all of these kinks and allow me to adjust the features of my vape, not the engineering of my vape? And, we're not even going in the right direction for this. Yes, we are miles ahead of where we were, but come'on, a device that is designed with the ability to adjust vapor and vapor temperature and vapor density and amount of nicotine (without changing juice), should be within the grasp of the world's brightest people. Let them do the engineering, I'll pay whatever they want, just give me what I want. Pretty please?

Oh, and smaller i.d. micro coils do work better. Bombarding a poorly performing coil and wick with massive wattage is not the same as achieving the effect with normal power levels. It's a physics problem, not an opinion, and YES, YMMV.

Good luck all and forgive my musings. I don't post too often anymore, but this has been on my mind.....

Alas, were it not for the lack of that unicorn there would be no ECF and we would not be here. And perhaps according to my own romantic notions most would likely succeed using such a sterile apparatus to just quit.

Evidence, the Blu, on steroids.

Still I've never believed that smoking was merely an addiction. Recently I noted that we've been sniffing at flavor and combustion from the embers since the very first campfire. It's a social phenomena. Not simply a device. And such collective and personal human endeavors as from art to cooking have always embodied richness, diversity and texture. We have an intellectual curiosity to seek perfection, in all, yes. But no instrument would ever fully satisfy the human passion to explore our individuality. That urge is prolific in its variety.

Just my own probabilistic musings about this whole phenomenon.

Good luck all and enjoy the vape!

 

[Mazinny]

Alas, were it not for the lack of that unicorn there would be no ECF and we would not be here. And perhaps according to my own romantic notions most would likely succeed using such a sterile apparatus to just quit.

Evidence, the Blu, on steroids.

Still I've never believed that smoking was merely an addiction. Recently I noted that we've been sniffing at flavor and combustion from the embers since the very first campfire. It's a social phenomena. Not simply a device. And such collective and personal human endeavors as from art to cooking have always embodied richness, diversity and texture. We have an intellectual curiosity to seek perfection, in all, yes. But no instrument would ever fully satisfy the human passion to explore our individuality. That urge is prolific in its variety.

Just my own probabilistic musings about this whole phenomenon.

Good luck all and enjoy the vape!

agree with the overall gist of your post generally, but disagree when it comes to smoking cigarettes and nicotine addiction. For me and many others, all it was, was an addiction. Not in the beginning, but certainly for the majority of my smoking days. I was nota fine cigar afficionado, nor a connoisseur of fine pipe tobacco. I smoked the same brand for twenty years, and wiuld smoke a different brand, only if I had to.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

 

[cigatron]

My turn? No thanks; enjoying the show though.

 

[Mazinny]

Mac, don't get me wrong, i admire your curiosity, enthusiasm and zeal. Not everyone approaches vaping the same way as you do, though.

About a year ago, an acquaintance of mine tried a relatively inexpensive tropical tobacco juice i was vaping. He liked it, and decided to try quitting cigarettes. He bought from me, two 600 Mah eGo batteries ( 3.7 volts ), two iClear 16's, a ten pack of heads, and a charger, that i had just received from fasttech for $ 30 total. Within a month he had bought some vg, pg, 100 mg nicotine, and three flavors, a light tobacco, coconut and pineapple and diy'ed a years worth of juice for under $ 60. A year later, and he still hasn't bought any more gear.

Just saying, not everyone has that intellectual curiosity to seek perfection ! His curiosity was in figuring out the cheapest way he can satisfy his nicotine addiction. He still saves the money he spent daily on cigarettes, and gets a blast from watching it grow.

 

[MacTechVpr]

agree with the overall gist of your post generally, but disagree when it comes to smoking cigarettes and nicotine addiction. For me and many others, all it was, was an addiction. Not in the beginning, but certainly for the majority of my smoking days. I was nota fine cigar afficionado, nor a connoisseur of fine pipe tobacco. I smoked the same brand for twenty years, and wiuld smoke a different brand, only if I had to.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

Nicotine use may be potentially an addiction. I don't disagree maz. I said it wasn't merely an addiction but one which feeds off of some of our deepest and fundamental social urges.

But nicotine wasn't harming us to the extent that smoking was. It's the latter, that habit that I referred to for its constructive implications.

I personally didn't always experience psychological stress from trying to quit. I did actually quit eight times. Always resumed gradually as I uniformly experienced severe sometimes very challenging health problems. My body seems to have adapted to its addiction all too well. Ultimately, I fell into the same pattern as you describe, a self-imposed victim of the ritual.

And I understand why the powers that be would have us focus on nicotine and addiction. To deemphasize smoking as a social habit, a very rewarding one.

But of the two it was the latter that was doing us most harm. And the former they wish us to continue to criticize, associate with us and use now as a means to do what? Control the social phenomena that vaping is becoming.

Bureaucracy, particular over social preferences, is an addiction I would do away with today it it were in my power to kick it.

So I say to them that would pigeonhole us, and for the reasons I mentioned, good luck with that!

(And I don't mean it in a nice way.)

 

[MacTechVpr]

Mac, don't get me wrong, i admire your curiosity, enthusiasm and zeal. Not everyone approaches vaping the same way as you do, though.

About a year ago, an acquaintance of mine tried a relatively inexpensive tropical tobacco juice i was vaping. He liked it, and decided to try quitting cigarettes. He bought from me, two 600 Mah eGo batteries ( 3.7 volts ), two iClear 16's, a ten pack of heads, and a charger, that i had just received from fasttech for $ 30 total. Within a month he had bought some vg, pg, 100 mg nicotine, and three flavors, a light tobacco, coconut and pineapple and diy'ed a years worth of juice for under $ 60. A year later, and he still hasn't bought any more gear.

Just saying, not everyone has that intellectual curiosity to seek perfection ! His curiosity was in figuring out the cheapest way he can satisfy his nicotine addiction. He still saves the money he spent daily on cigarettes, and gets a blast from watching it grow.

There will always be a smoking cessation reseller available to service their needs (for the foreseeable future) for those that just wanna be done wid it. Many who will never experience the need or curiosity to go further. Then there are those that eat at Macdonald's every day.

LOL There's no tellin'.



I'm a (l)ibertarian, I respect choice. There are often good reasons for it.

 

[Mazinny]

There will always be a smoking cessation reseller available to service their needs (for the foreseeable future) for those that just wanna be done wid it. Many who will never experience the need or curiosity to go further. Then there are those that eat at Macdonald's every day.

LOL There's no tellin'.



I'm a (l)ibertarian, I respect choice. There are often good reasons for it.

Agreed. I consider myself a libertarian as well, although increasingly a "libertarian lite". My favorite libertarian quote as to the role of government, i believe by Robert Nozick :

" the duty not to interfere with another person's domain of choice, is all that any society should coercively demand"

 

[cigatron]

pottie break did I miss anything?

 

[MacTechVpr]

Agreed. I consider myself a libertarian as well, although increasingly a "libertarian lite". My favorite libertarian quote as to the role of government, i believe by Robert Nozick :

" the duty not to interfere with another person's domain of choice, is all that any society should coercively demand"

++



Good luck always.

 

[cigatron]

Some of you may remember my previous complaint about some 30awg purchased online. 30awg ka1 should average 8.36 ohms/ft.; mine measured 9.5.
Duplicating builds can be frustrating enough without the added headaches resulting from poor manufacturing practices and even poorer quality control.
That said I will not be a repeat customer with Vape City.

New 29 and 30awg KA1 arrived today from Temco.

29awg spec'd at 6.55ohms/ft measured 6.84
30awg spec'd at 8.36ohms/ft measured 8.63

Not surprised that they both measured a bit on the high side as they were both .0007" under spec'd diameter.

Measurements were taken from 6ft of lightly tensioned wire, test lead resistance subtracted then divided by 6.

Layman's terms: Vape City Temco

cig

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Some of you may remember my previous complaint about some 30awg purchased online. 30awg ka1 should average 8.36 ohms/ft.; mine measured 9.5.
Duplicating builds can be frustrating enough without the added headaches resulting from poor manufacturing practices and even poorer quality control.
That said I will not be a repeat customer with Vape City.

New 29 and 30awg KA1 arrived today from Temco.

29awg spec'd at 6.55ohms/ft measured 6.84
30awg spec'd at 8.36ohms/ft measured 8.63

Not surprised that they both measured a bit on the high side as they were both .0007" under spec'd diameter.

Measurements were taken from 6ft of lightly tensioned wire, test lead resistance subtracted then divided by 6.

Layman's terms: Vape City Temco

cig

+1. All I use. Best I've used thus far.

 

[Alter]

Nice to hear with Temco, you get what your suppose to. I've bought nothing else but Temco wire but have been thinking about others that are cheaper but you did the legwork and with your results I will stay with the Temco products.

 

[weenerdog3443]

Made nice vape in the protank, gave it to a friend to rock in his evod and got another one in my other protank

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

 

[MacTechVpr]

Made nice vape in the protank, gave it to a friend to rock in his evod and got another one in my other protank

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

Really nice tight wind w. Though I can't count the exact turns, I can tell you it seems high. It looks like 29 AWG. It starts to skirt the edges of reliability at about 11-12 turns because of the propensity of the legs to drift with grommet rotation. You may encounter a leg cross-over short or bending in the legs could contact the housing.

What was your resistance read w? And how's it vaping?

I recommend a middle of the road target with 29g of 9 or 10 wraps targeting about 1.75 and 2.1Ω respectively. The latter more surface area and a tad more efficiency. The 9-turn firing a bit faster and somewhat warmer.

Also as you probably know there was both a little bit of skewing on the mandrel. This happens due to too much or unbalanced tension in the lead wires as well as tension that pulls away from the coil (so stretching it). The horizontal skew (not aligned with socket) is also a sign of this. Both can damage the fusion formed by pulsing and reduce the efficiency.

This is a good build w. And you need to see these variations to see the difference in performance. Adjusting your lead tension and lead set location will help you perfect the alignment and load on the coil so you can retain the geometry you built when you first wound it. Keep at it and tap us on the shoulder if we can help.

Good luck, enjoy that one.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I think regulatory uncertainty and unenforceabilty of patents in China, might have something to do with why talented scientists at bigger corporations are not working on perfecting the vape experience. Having said that, we all know that the entire industry is less than a decade old. How much did cars, televisions, pc's etc... improve in their first decade in the market.

You may very well be right about smaller i.d. coils, but terms like " work better " or " taste better " are not scientific terms. You must first define measurable attributes of the vapor that constitute better taste, or of the coil that define better performance. Until then, it's still an opinion imo. Now, the opinion might be shared among the vast majority of experienced vapors whose expertise and experience you respect, and you might have personal anecdotal evidence as well, but still, it's an opinion and not scientific fact

Absolutely, on the chilling effect of regulatory uncertainty. Blunts technological advancement. So there is no disincentive either for our offshore competitors in their government sanctioned spectacular free-for-all of unmitigated replication of others' property. That has a chilling effect on innovation too. It's time for us to start thinking outside of the box we have put ourselves in. We almost seem to believe we're supposed to live in this paper prison.

On the other hand, I'm a technologist. I see and appreciate where Bill is coming from. I love the eVic and I applaud the Chinese for making it. It was a flash in the pan insofar as its teaser technology. And I don't see any formidable innovation on the horizon on this score of intelligent automation in PV's. It's the kind of nice notion that institutional and governmental authority love to quash…unless they can control it. Mind you its not because of creators and innovators. The technology is there to be had. Proof positive – How long did we wait for high resolution digital television? Why is duplication still being restrained through governmental and cross-media standards? Governments concerns for personal property, copyright. LOLOLOL

Technological innovation won't come because we persuade high powered industry and government to sanction it. They won't. They really don't create anything. It comes because bright smart innovators like Steve Jobs and Art Wozniak just won't say no to the big guns and keep at it. No matter how much you call 'em dumb and their vision stupid.

You just can't suppress the human intellect. It is persistent.

Good luck to all of you innovators watching.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Absolutely, on the chilling effect of regulatory uncertainty. Blunts technological advancement. So there is no disincentive either for our offshore competitors in their government sanctioned spectacular free-for-all of unmitigated replication of others' property. That has a chilling effect on innovation too. It's time for us to start thinking outside of the box we have put ourselves in. We almost seem to believe we're supposed to live in this paper prison.

On the other hand, I'm a technologist. I see and appreciate where Bill is coming from. I love the eVic and I applaud the Chinese for making it. It was a flash in the pan insofar as its teaser technology. And I don't see any formidable innovation on the horizon on this score of intelligent automation in PV's. It's the kind of nice notion that institutional and governmental authority love to quash…unless they can control it. Mind you its not because of creators and innovators. The technology is there to be had. Proof positive – How long did we wait for high resolution digital television? Why is duplication still being restrained through governmental and cross-media standards? Governments concerns for personal property, copyright. LOLOLOL

Technological innovation won't come because we persuade high powered industry and government to sanction it. They won't. They really don't create anything. It comes because bright smart innovators like Steve Jobs and Art Wozniak just won't say no to the big guns and keep at it. No matter how much you call 'em dumb and their vision stupid.

You just can't suppress the human intellect. It is persistent.

Good luck to all of you innovators watching.

I didn't comment on Maz's post previously. However, since Hana Modz is suing everyone in the US that has sold their China Clone, I think we will see a cooling effect on US retail sales of clones where the Original manufacturer has a patent, a trademark, or has applied for either one. The law is clear on this issue (The Sherman Act). You cannot rip off our innovators and get away with it, if the originator has done their upfront work. I can provide links to three lawsuits that I'm aware of. Hana Modz seeks 6 figure remuneration and damages, and I hope they get it. If we protect our innovators, support our innovators, we will all gain through innovation. Not that a clone doesn't have some place in the scheme of things, but what we have now is the wild, wild west.

Also, Mac, I didn't comment on your view concerning our craft, which I also agree with, and have pursued zealously for the last 18 months. I am up to speed on our most recent innovations, though my current investment is no where near where it was a year ago. Turns out, I really don't need 40 APV and 100 toppers. I've reduced my stash to a much more manageable level, as my vape has continued to improve. I don't expect dramatic improvements in my vape going forward without innovation, though, I do foresee smaller incremental improvements. I have to laugh Mac. You just have this very distinctive writing style. I could pick your work out of 50,000 writings with ease, LOL. Keep up the great work, my friend! Good luck to all!

 

[MacTechVpr]

...I have to laugh Mac. You just have this very distinctive writing style. I could pick your work out of 50,000 writings with ease, LOL. Keep up the great work, my friend! Good luck to all!

Thanks Bill. Now I know there's at least one person in the room that enjoys my dribble.

I write to inform and incite the imagination. On occasion, I think, I'm successful.

But most of all I write here to help people get over quickly and move on to broader horizons. I think the Kanger Protank is a great platform for this purpose and for mastering the electrical and other fundamentals necessary to rebuilding. I think Kanger is to be lauded for their design efforts but not so much for discouraging the latter. Come on fella's, really. Could you be any more transparent?

As of this week I have 35 mods, most original. Although I love diversity, it is kind of overkill. I am not an obsessive collector. There is a direction, not a rabbit hole. I need to experience and test what others are. I can't simply speculate to criticize, comment or add to it. I can't and won't guess. This is not a hobby for me but a means to pay back what I couldn't pay forward. It is also an opportunity for those anxious to escape the cloisters of that paper prison to dream and create. I kind of hope I'm encouraging that too.

One interesting facet and outcome of this research is, and kind of remarkably, that the majority of the above are in daily operation. It is precisely the techniques, methods and materials I have dissected on ECF that make that possible at all. And that too has been part of my purpose — to demonstrate a practicability of broader enjoyment is possible in what vaping has to offer.

That doesn't necessarily mean you haven't achieved it if you're lovin' life with two REO's.

Good luck.

 

[cigatron]

I would like to share a dyi tool I made to tension wind micro coils directly from the wire spool. 3/4" square x 4" long piece of hardwood with a .070 drill bit in the end of the tool (serves as a winding mandrel) and a screw with a washer on the side of the tool (serves as a wire retainer.

PRO's:
1. It's nearly free
2. Easy to use if you have big hands and/or arthritis
3. Easy to count your turns because it's square instead of round. Count in quarter turns ie. 1,2,3-1. 1,2,3-2. 1,2,3-3 etc.
4. Provides better leverage because it's larger and has flat sides to grip.
5. Faster and more secure wire retainer than using your thumb or tape
6. No need to overwind then unwind starter coils because it winds the first turn at a perfect 90 degrees
7. Almost anyone can fabricate one with tools they already own.
8. Coils are wound directly from the wire spool.
9. Coils require no torching before install

CONs:

1. Will only accommodate two mandrel sizes ie. one size on each end of tool
2. Probably won't look as pretty as a pin vise.

Re-posted for those who may not have seen the cheapest, easiest to use and best handheld coil winder on the planet.

Humbly yours,
Cig

 

[MacTechVpr]

View attachment 346380




Re-posted for those who may not have seen the cheapest, easiest to use and best handheld coil winder on the planet.

Humbly yours,
Cig

Are you kidding? I would'a chewed the thing out of a tree trunk if I had to, the first few weeks I was vapin'…windin' the noodle for Vivi Nova's as I was. Where the hell were you then? Huh? Huh?



Easy to do for someone to test the principle and get the result. Thanks cig.

Good luck.