Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[super_X_drifter]

My soldiers:

Their guns ( typical build ):

Yes, those are bottom fed setups where you press an onboard bottle and juice comes up thru the bottom of the RDA then drains back down when you release pressure on the bottle. Fresh squozen juice on demand.

I don't rely on gravity or wicking to get juice to the wick.

Here - if your curious as to why their all I'll ever use

http://youtu.be/1zKJFfP-2ws

 

[cigatron]

My soldiers:

Their guns ( typical build ):

Yes, those are bottom fed setups where you press an onboard bottle and juice comes up thru the bottom of the RDA then drains back down when you release pressure on the bottle. Fresh squozen juice on demand.

I don't rely on gravity or wicking to get juice to the wick.

Here - if your curious as to why their all I'll ever use

Bottom Feeders - How they work and why YOU need one - YouTube

PROSELYTIZING


Super nice build on the Odin Russ. Not as easy as it looks for sure and I'm still green with envy. DAAAaaang!

cig

 

[cigatron]

Did someone say forrest? All I have is a bush patch! Lol




Left: Mini Aerotank
Left/Center: Innokin VV3 w/Mini Protank2
Right/Center: Innokin MVP2 w/Aerotank Mega
Right: Panzer 18650 Mech Mod w/Tobh Atty RDA

Nothing big; just the bare necessities.

And no I'm not a girl......

cig

 

[crg31953]

Did someone say forrest? All I have is a bush patch! Lol

View attachment 386148


Left: Mini Aerotank
Left/Center: Innokin VV3 w/Mini Protank2
Right/Center: Innokin MVP2 w/Aerotank Mega
Right: Panzer 18650 Mech Mod w/Tobh Atty RDA

Nothing big; just the bare necessities.

And no I'm not a girl......

cig

Well you got a laugh out of me!

 

[MacTechVpr]

My soldiers:

Their guns ( typical build ):

Yes, those are bottom fed setups where you press an onboard bottle and juice comes up thru the bottom of the RDA then drains back down when you release pressure on the bottle. Fresh squozen juice on demand.

I don't rely on gravity or wicking to get juice to the wick.

Here - if your curious as to why their all I'll ever use

Bottom Feeders - How they work and why YOU need one - YouTube

Yessiree, that's one purdy set of gals ya got there supe!

(Shall I go on? Better not press my luck.)

We're all bottom feeders here Russ. Ya came to the right place. We just use immersion, not ejection. We must be Baptists or somethin'. I dunno.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

At the bell it seems like an unfair contest but here's the scorecard, what the heck.

Picked me up one these Mega's on account of everyone sayin' they're so damned bad. And being discounted to ridiculous price points, I couldn't resist. I won't tell ya where but it was. And yes, it's authentic. For the visualization impaired some pixel artifacts for you ringside...

In the left corner we have the venerable champion, the brawny epitome of vaping's finest of consumer tanks, the Mega. A tank like several of it's predecessors which I've ignored due to Kanker's propensity for hiding it's vaporizer strategies. Since they all do it, it seems the deck is stacked. And just because I'm tired of spending ever more green on everything that gets thrown at us catering to whatever the latest vaping craze. It's bad enough that B&M's buy them because everybody else does. But trying to make us feel that way is beyond the pale. No matter how cutsie the video was. Nonetheless the champ has some attributes in size and potential benefits of wind that it merited a look see even if this is no official meet up.

It's opponent in the right corner the veritable monster build I posted a while back (on a lightweight KPT Aero). All 18 turns of tensioned micro coil muscle and brandishing the Nextel belt the champ should be wearing.

Well I'd heard a lot of nice things about the champ's prowess and the sniping about it's capacity I thought was just petty. Lo and behold though you almost get the feeling you've lookin' at a ringer the first time you fill and flip the thing. There's no tellin' what kinda juice the champ has got. It's runnin' on half-empty from the git. So after the sigh of disillusionment you almost know where this is gonna end.

I'll dispense with the fight allegory 'cause (I'm no expert in pugilism either) it's getting late and the eyes are weary of this might have been a contest. The Mega tank is a good solid tank (good luck finding the rubber). With the improvements in Aero bases it's every bit as good as any other tank I've vaped. That is, if you can get over that silica cardboard taste that's sort of akin to drinkin' a flat beer. Yeah, it's like that. At the end of the tape we got a state of the art dual coil that at 2.2Ω delivers a quarter of the output of a t.m.c. in vapor. Only one other slight difference...the vapor is at least twice as dense for the latter. Vaped at 12W which the d/c seemed to handle adequately and only appearing about twice as warm, the Kanger coil performed with its characteristic objectionable silica crackle. So it's kinda understandable in a boring and familiar way that inexperienced vapers (and those who choose to remain so) might think it's fabulous. They and all the reviewers. So much so as well for the similar Aspire's, Nautilus', etc. ad infinitum.

Folks that's why I joined this parade. It can't get any better unless we do it ourselves. The more things change...

You are the source of the imagination necessary to fulfill your vaping dreams.

Have at it and do it with tension.

Good luck.

 

[crg31953]

At the bell it seems like an unfair contest but here's the scorecard, what the heck.

Picked me up one these Mega's on account of everyone sayin' they're so damned bad. And being discounted to ridiculous price points, I couldn't resist. I won't tell ya where but it was. And yes, it's authentic. For the visualization impaired some pixel artifacts for you ringside...

In the left corner we have the venerable champion, the brawny epitome of vaping's finest of consumer tanks, the Mega. A tank like several of it's predecessors which I've ignored due to Kanker's propensity for hiding it's vaporizer strategies. Since they all do it, it seems the deck is stacked. And just because I'm tired of spending ever more green on everything that gets thrown at us catering to whatever the latest vaping craze. It's bad enough that B&M's buy them because everybody else does. But trying to make us feel that way is beyond the pale. No matter how cutsie the video was. Nonetheless the champ has some attributes in size and potential benefits of wind that it merited a look see even if this is no official meet up.

It's opponent in the right corner the veritable monster build I posted a while back (on a lightweight KPT Aero). All 18 turns of tensioned micro coil muscle and brandishing the Nextel belt the champ should be wearing.

Well I'd heard a lot of nice things about the champ's prowess and the sniping about it's capacity I thought was just petty. Lo and behold though you almost get the feeling you've lookin' at a ringer the first time you fill and flip the thing. There's no tellin' what kinda juice the champ has got. It's runnin' on half-empty from the git. So after the sigh of disillusionment you almost know where this is gonna end.

I'll dispense with the fight allegory 'cause (I'm no expert in pugilism either) it's getting late and the eyes are weary of this might have been a contest. The Mega tank is a good solid tank (good luck finding the rubber). With the improvements in Aero bases it's every bit as good as any other tank I've vaped. That is, if you can get over that silica cardboard taste that's sort of akin to drinkin' a flat beer. Yeah, it's like that. At the end of the tape we got a state of the art dual coil that at 2.2Ω delivers a quarter of the output of a t.m.c. in vapor. Only one other slight difference...the vapor is at least twice as dense for the latter. Vaped at 12W which the d/c seemed to handle adequately and only appearing about twice as warm, the Kanger coil performed with its characteristic objectionable silica crackle. So it's kinda understandable in a boring and familiar way that inexperienced vapers (and those who choose to remain so) might think it's fabulous. They and all the reviewers. So much so as well for the similar Aspire's, Nautilus', etc. ad infinitum.

Folks that's why I joined this parade. It can't get any better unless we do it ourselves. The more things change...

You are the source of the imagination necessary to fulfill your vaping dreams.

Have at it and do it with tension.

Good luck.

So do plan running single coil builds? [emoji4]

From A Galaxy Far Away
Using Tapatalk Pro

 

[MacTechVpr]

So do plan running single coil builds? [emoji4]

From A Galaxy Far Away
Using Tapatalk Pro

Absolutely, have to give the champ a chance to make good, no?

Initially I'll be working up some high density builds, multi-wire. But yeah, there'll be lower res singles starting with 29 AWG and down.



Good luck.

 

[Bored2Tears]

Gents, super x drifter sold me on the artistic wire jig/ coil winding tool. For $8 at Hobby Lobby, I think it will take off months of practicing hand winds for perfect tensioned micro coils. Great vids super x! Love how generous folks are with their time to teach noobs like myself.

I've had no time to try it out yet. I made decent coils hand wrapping on the drill bit with no other aid, but the leads were all wonky and misshapen. I think the jig will resolve that. I am definitely sold on the tensioned technique promoted here.

And super x .... Stop making me lust after those Reos! I want one badly! Must stop spending $. Those Reos just seem like the ultimate in simplicity. Maybe Santa will put me on his nice list this Christmas.

I will post some pics when I finally get time to do a few more coils with my fancy new tool.

Always following this thread...but limited time to post.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Gents, super x drifter sold me on the artistic wire jig/ coil winding tool. For $8 at Hobby Lobby, I think it will take off months of practicing hand winds for perfect tensioned micro coils. Great vids super x! Love how generous folks are with their time to teach noobs like myself.

I've had no time to try it out yet. I made decent coils hand wrapping on the drill bit with no other aid, but the leads were all wonky and misshapen. I think the jig will resolve that. I am definitely sold on the tensioned technique promoted here.

And super x .... Stop making me lust after those Reos! I want one badly! Must stop spending $. Those Reos just seem like the ultimate in simplicity. Maybe Santa will put me on his nice list this Christmas.

I will post some pics when I finally get time to do a few more coils with my fancy new tool.

Always following this thread...but limited time to post.

A jig is a wonderful device and capable of easily imparting a lot of tension and consistently. For many of us its essential. Like me, some days.

But to correct a possible misconception B2T, it takes maybe an hour to recognize when adhesion takes place. A couple'a three days to gain the muscle memory to hit it consistently for most of us. Sometimes a lot quicker. I've trained a lot of folks personally. Most have it down within a few hours, a few builds, the first day. And many of you nail it the first or second wind.

The greatest advantage of a pin vise is that coupled with our acute sense of touch, of measuring the pressure, we can learn when the precise point of adhesion occurs. It's there, right there, where that coil is about as good as it gets. That's what I've come to increasingly realize as I experience more and more builds hitting that landing point. It's the jump shot swish, the kick between the posts, the knock-out punch…it don't get any better. The reason seems to be resistance. It goes too high on both sides of the mark. With too little or too much tension. The point of ideal "stickiness" is the bullseye. It gets appreciably challenging to discern when it happens as the length of wire from the spool to the wind increases. It also becomes more difficult to apply consistent tension unless you apply it liberally. And that's the tendency with a jig.

So what exactly am I saying here? It's about control. But it can also be about utility.

A pin vise, bit and some wire can travel with you in your pocket. It's there when you need it.

I also recommend the pin vise to beginners as it's extremely versatile. For less than 10$ it's possible to get one, a bit or two and some wire. A few more and you can wind a wide variety. It travels easily with you. If you build for many devices having a huge number of options for bits and wind diameters is indispensable. This can be a challenge itself with a jig and depending on which one. It could take you months to sort that out.

Hopefully it won't and you'll find what works best for your needs. But nothing will teach you where adhesion lives better than a pin vise.

However, please by all means buy one, buy both! You need to be winding tension coils to experience just how good vaporization can actually be. Most of us live in suspended disbelief choosing to believe we have the best we can get until we do.

Good luck and enjoy that vape!

 

[cigatron]

Absolutely, have to give the champ a chance to make good, no?

Initially I'll be working up some high density builds, multi-wire. But yeah, they'll be lower res singles starting with 29 AWG and down.



Good luck.

I think you'll like the Mega Mac but it's stiill a kanger tank with built-in limitations (grommet). One thing I have noticed however, and suspected, is that the flow of juice is more consistent with greater dia:height ratio tanks. More air above the juice ensures less flow change each time a bubble rises to the top. Mini tanks that are smaller dia, and tall, can change from dry hit to flooded condition quite rapidly. Not so much with the Mega.

I have successfully vaped the Mega w/.9 ohms single for a week now but have to reverse puff it frequently to releave neg tank pressure enough to keep juice supply up for the monster coil.

Next Mega build will be 29awg crossed dual coil tmc netting around .9 ohms. This way each coil will only be responsible for half of the total wattage. Hoping the juice flow can then keep up at around 10 watts per coil. Should be dynamite on a mech mod or high wattage apv.

cig

 

[MacTechVpr]

I think you'll like the Mega Mac but it's stiill a kanger tank with built-in limitations (grommet). One thing I have noticed however, and suspected, is that the flow of juice is more consistent with greater dia:height ratio tanks. More air above the juice ensures less flow change each time a bubble rises to the top. Mini tanks that are smaller dia, and tall, can change from dry hit to flooded condition quite rapidly. Not so much with the Mega.

I have successfully vaped the Mega w/.9 ohms single for a week now but have to reverse puff it frequently to releave neg tank pressure enough to keep juice supply up for the monster coil.

Next Mega build will be 29awg crossed dual coil tmc netting around .9 ohms. This way each coil will only be responsible for half of the total wattage. Hoping the juice flow can then keep up at around 10 watts per coil. Should be dynamite on a mech mod or high wattage apv.

cig

Well the mainstream view has been that the thinner the vertical column the less surface area affected as vacuum reduces. And that's been my experience with things like the Mini and T3s. They blow the PT away in performance at times. So I was skeptical about the Mega with that bigger expanse of liquid surface subject to increasing downward pressure. So far…it's a surprise despite the constancy of comments about it being leaky. Yeah, it'll leak. Damn skippy it will if it shorts. And this one is to boot at a solid 2.1-2.2Ω (on a 2.0Ω spec). It is showing in a drier rather bland taste today but vapor holding up (of course).

I gather you're talking about the counter rotated wind center post I posted [9/25] earlier? That one was on 1.778mm with 31AWG. Came out to 1.29Ω and held rock steady with just two over-torquing lapses until just the last few days. Those cleared by adjusting the grommet. Taste held up throughout but is starting to change finally seeming subtly chalky with a bit more than usual discoloration.

A little bit about my strategy on this build cig. I used my dirtiest tobacco blend on it. And it does start to discolor within a few days of just about any build, wick, factory, cotton, rayon or Nextel. Shortly then it's starting to taste ashy. I set about a preemptive strategy I've touched on before with you. And that's to rinse out at about 2-3 days with a very mild dry burn just to clear the last of moisture from a mostly air-dried wick. And then you know I said screw it. I've dry burned this thing 3 times since Sep 25 but since then about every 3-5 tank fills I've vaped it down to the visible quarter tank mark approx and added a quarter to third of a tank of straight vg then fill as usual. Mostly I refill at the half tank as I'm usually down close to 3.7V by then. When I notice that I replace coils to avoid the gunking resulting from under powering the wick. And that's what gunking is and where it comes from for those that don't fail to observe the obvious. Witness any misfiring dripper connection. Not the urban legend of charring or too hot at center microcoils.

Now I have to say that running a protank out a week is like enjoying a good porridge. If you haven't experienced any shorting or overheating it's a dense taste experience. And certainly for me that's the case for the juices I use and enjoy. After that 2nd dry burn I would expect most dense juices to exhibit some darkening at 12-12.5W. Certainly here. But adding the bit of VG has just balanced the flavor of that denseness somehow keeping further pigment aggregation at bay. Amazing.

I frankly did not expect that of Nextel and have not previously tried dilution as a remedy for discoloration with this wick. I've always seen it as a signal to either dry burn and washout or replace the coil. Never treated it like a good stew reduction.

Like I've said many times cig, vaping more resembles cooking than anything else we do.

And knowing when to dilute a good sauce has proved to be an excellent surprise. I have grossly underestimated Nextel's capabilities by subjecting it to the same test standards as all other media.

Good luck in your test.

 

[cigatron]

Well the mainstream view has been that the thinner the vertical column the less surface area affected as vacuum reduces. And that's been my experience with things like the Mini and T3s. They blow the PT away in performance at times. So I was skeptical about the Mega with that bigger expanse of liquid surface subject to increasing downward pressure. So far…it's a surprise despite the constancy of comments about it being leaky.

Helpful Techie Stuff

So as we lay awake at night contemplating the behaviours of varying tank sizes and shapes it may be helpful to consider a couple of known scientific aspects of liquids and gases.

First, gases (air included) are compressible and expandable. This includes air in vacuum (negative pressure) environments. In our case the air in our tanks is in a constant state of vacuum but the amount of vacuum (in/hg) varies slightly dependent upon whether a bubble of air has just risen to the top of the tank or not. Slightly more vacuum (causing less juice flow) if it has been a while since one has risen; slightly less vacuum (causing more juice flow) if one has just risen. The overall level of vacuum is controlled (regulated) by wicking density and juice viscosity (thickness). The vacuum applied to the top of the fluid in our tanks is the same in/hg per sq.in. of surface area regardless of diameter and has no greater or lesser effect on juice flow based on diameter of the tank.

Liquids are non compressible or expandable by positive or negative pressure changes. The downward force provided by liquids is a result of gravitational forces acting upon the mass of the fluid. Fluid in a column will provide a downward force proportional to it's mass and height. Not it's diameter. In the case of water: water in a column will provide a downward force of .43psi (pounds per square inch) per foot of height. It doesn't matter if the column is 1/2" diameter or 100 ft. diameter; it will remain the same.

So if diameter has no impact on juice flow based on physics then one may wonder why I included diameter in my earlier post where I stated that "I like tanks with a greater dia/height ratio? When we fill our tanks we stop at the point that the juice could run down the airtube. This leaves a small amount of air in the tank. That's a good thing because without some air up there above the fluid our tanks would stop flowing juice altogether. Why? Because without air there is no vacuum; just a solid column of non expandable fluid. An air bubble would never rise. In fact the more air we have in the tank vs. juice the more consistent vacuum we have because each air bubble that rises adds a smaller percentage of air to the overall air in the tank. This translates to more consistent juice flow. That's why I stated that I thought you would like the Mega. Because bdc clearos have shorter air tubes (taller wickheads) you will always have ample air above the juice after refill. Even more so with larger diameter tanks.

The following is my understanding of the dynamics controlling juice flow in tanks.

The negative pressurized air (vacuum) above the juice is regulated by a valve (the wick) and the viscosity (thickness) of the juice and remains fairly constant throughout the tank level. However, this negative pressurized air also acts an air spring and the spring tension (ability to resist expansion) of this air spring is controlled by the amount of air vs. juice in the tank. Greater volumes of air are easier to expand than smaller volumes. The level of vacuum AND this air spring tension is what dictates how much draw effort is required to pull juice from the tank. So as the ratio of air vs. juice increases so does our abilty to overcome the normalized vacuum by stretching the air spring with only slightly greater than needed draw effort. This is why as tank juice level drops we can experience flooding at or near the bottom of the tank if not wicked heavy enough. As it is, this is the condition that I wick for, the bottom of the tank, not the top.


Summary of sorts:

The looser you wick; the lower the vacuum (because air can more easily migrate through the wick and into the tank) and allows more juice flow.

The thinner the juice; the lower the vacuum (because air can more easily migrate through the wick and into the tank) and allows more juice flow.

The more air vs. juice in the tank; the less vacuum change per risen air bubble occurs allowing for greater consistency in juice flow.

The more air vs. juice in the tank the easier it is to pull juice from the tank with a given draw effort because the "air spring" weakens.

Vacuum levels in the tank do not change much with changes in fluid levels of tank.

Wicking density should be adequate to stave off flooding at or near empty tank levels.

Hope this helps.

cig:

 

[MacTechVpr]

I think you'll like the Mega Mac but it's stiill a kanger tank with built-in limitations (grommet)...

Can't say I agree with you on some of your suppositions above cig. We seem to be getting to the same place on wick density though and that's good.

But I gotta say contrary to theory clearo's flood whith a good air bubble in the tank. Fact. That's why Kanger was recommending at one point to refill at half-tank (when the PT2 first came out). Then they retracted that admission. Effectively that's what we have now. More below.

I gotta say overall I'm impressed as I have always been on Kanger's engineering. This tank improves in host of ways in little details and apparently the overall effect is a constructive one on the flow and vacuum pressure issues. It is by far the driest Protank I've yet had the pleasure of using.

Whether intentional or not, as I agree with Pete B how unfortunate it is that the tank appears half full when filled, it does keep you filling up when it hits the bottom of the glass. And that is approximately when the tank is 40% approx full. Pretty darn close to the point that vacuum pressure heads South. Ingenious? Or serendipity?

Predictably Day 2 slight discoloration began, quickly followed today by increasingly greasy taste of my delicious moderately pigmented tobacco blend. By tonight we were getting distinctively disconcerting scorched instances. And on the last fill moments ago back to a 2.2Ω res return. Examination also showed that it was blowing out the top wick on both of the minute air entrances to the cup. This pretty much called it for this particular coil. So I had to resort to the 2nd included to give them a fair shake. We'll hope for a 50/50 ratio that it lasts the 3-4 days average that Kanger coils have worked for me. How much are they each these days at retail?

On the downside for the Mega. There's an awful lot of silicone on this thing that you're not going to find at retailers. If you do, it's your solemn obligation to post it here. Stock up peeps. Glass and bases too while you're at it. Don't know why I'm feelin' it but I don't think this great tank is going to have a long history. Hope I'm wrong. But it could be something as fickle as the market rejecting the lack of a flush fit on devices. Dunno. I feel an ill wind.

I've learned to live with the loss of the luscious lines of the original KPT, and acclimated to the tapered look of the PT2 and now the uniformity of the Aero/PT3. At least we can use real drip tips now. But I love the idea of a 2mm tank option for Kangers. It annoys me the performance of the Aero/PT3 is that much different now. But at least that has a fix.

Do not ever fall into the fantasy that Kanger will build a Kayfun style rebuildable out of the Kanger, as has been suggested by some. No folks, Kanger is in the business of selling consumables and the Protank is the delivery mechanism.

Overall I have to say the Mega's are an order of magnitude better than previous tanks including the very nice Aerotank. And I'm more inclined at this point to build for it. Just unsure to what extent I may cover variations here. It certainly will not be on any enclosed version of their coils. And the simple reason is I will not endorse nor support any tank maker that designs to hide their winds and inhibit rebuilding. If Kanger persists then the Kanger product line will cease to be a viable recommendation for beginners.

So all of you get a reprieve so long as there are aftermarket makers of an assembly that permits easier access. I would not subject any of you to having to have a press to install a top cap or extract internals. That's redic. It's serious employment. It won't yield efficient adaptation for those quitting. And Kanger's not payin' any of us to better their builds. So as long as they continue to give us the opportunity to improve on their coils and accordingly our vape, I'll be here showing you how. But the time is coming to a close. And I'm not gonna go all Noah on ya. Seize the moment if you're reading this thread. The time to learn to rebuild is now. Just sayin'.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Helpful Techie Stuff

So as we lay awake at night contemplating the behaviours of varying tank sizes and shapes it may be helpful to consider a couple of known scientific aspects of liquids and gases.

First, gases (air included) are compressible and expandable. This includes air in vacuum (negative pressure) environments. In our case the air in our tanks is in a constant state of vacuum but the amount of vacuum (in/hg) varies slightly dependent upon whether a bubble of air has just risen to the top of the tank or not. Slightly more vacuum (causing less juice flow) if it has been a while since one has risen; slightly less vacuum (causing more juice flow) if one has just risen. The overall level of vacuum is controlled (regulated) by wicking density and juice viscosity (thickness). The vacuum applied to the top of the fluid in our tanks is the same in/hg per sq.in. of surface area regardless of diameter and has no greater or lesser effect on juice flow based on diameter of the tank.

Liquids are non compressible or expandable by positive or negative pressure changes. The downward force provided by liquids is a result of gravitational forces acting upon the mass of the fluid. Fluid in a column will provide a downward force proportional to it's mass and height. Not it's diameter. In the case of water: water in a column will provide a downward force of .43psi (pounds per square inch) per foot of height. It doesn't matter if the column is 1/2" diameter or 100 ft. diameter; it will remain the same.

So if diameter has no impact on juice flow based on physics then one may wonder why I included diameter in my earlier post where I stated that "I like tanks with a greater dia/height ratio? When we fill our tanks we stop at the point that the juice could run down the airtube. This leaves a small amount of air in the tank. That's a good thing because without some air up there above the fluid our tanks would stop flowing juice altogether. Why? Because without air there is no vacuum; just a solid column of non expandable fluid. An air bubble would never rise. In fact the more air we have in the tank vs. juice the more consistent vacuum we have because each air bubble that rises adds a smaller percentage of air to the overall air in the tank. This translates to more consistent juice flow. That's why I stated that I thought you would like the Mega. Because bdc clearos have shorter air tubes (taller wickheads) you will always have ample air above the juice after refill. Even more so with larger diameter tanks.

The following is my understanding of the dynamics controlling juice flow in tanks.

The negative pressurized air (vacuum) above the juice is regulated by a valve (the wick) and the viscosity (thickness) of the juice and remains fairly constant throughout the tank level. However, this negative pressurized air also acts an air spring and the spring tension (ability to resist expansion) of this air spring is controlled by the amount of air vs. juice in the tank. Greater volumes of air are easier to expand than smaller volumes. The level of vacuum AND this air spring tension is what dictates how much draw effort is required to pull juice from the tank. So as the ratio of air vs. juice increases so does our abilty to overcome the normalized vacuum by stretching the air spring with only slightly greater than needed draw effort. This is why as tank juice level drops we can experience flooding at or near the bottom of the tank if not wicked heavy enough. As it is, this is the condition that I wick for, the bottom of the tank, not the top.


Summary of sorts:

The looser you wick; the lower the vacuum (because air can more easily migrate through the wick and into the tank) and allows more juice flow.

The thinner the juice; the lower the vacuum (because air can more easily migrate through the wick and into the tank) and allows more juice flow.

The more air vs. juice in the tank; the less vacuum change per risen air bubble occurs allowing for greater consistency in juice flow.

The more air vs. juice in the tank the easier it is to pull juice from the tank with a given draw effort because the "air spring" weakens.

Vacuum levels in the tank do not change much with changes in fluid levels of tank.

Wicking density should be adequate to stave off flooding at or near empty tank levels.

Hope this helps.

cig:

Cig I found your above remarks very informative. Thank you. Had a little more time this morning over coffee to review your post. It does pose a quandary you may wish to expand upon because in practice I and many others have found that clearo's with narrower vertical columns tend to flood less. Also my remark about Kanger's refill cutoff is on point. I'm not an expert on fluid dynamics. I largely report observations which seem to be at odds with the physics. I do report what I find in physics that would appear to explain those anomalies. I try my best to report what is having had the benefit of substantial exposure to the numbers in practice.

I marvel somewhat at times at what appears the weighting of certain factors and not others. For example, it's kind of remarkable that air might transit through a soggy wick where the occupying fluid under a constant pressure would present resistance (in a standing state). Most of the leaking in a clearo occurs in just such a state, i.e. when we set it down. The statement then would seem to ignore the elephant in the room. That slight inconsistencies in sealing of the wick slot present the equivalent of the Grand Canyon to buoyant air beneath it struggling to work it's way upwards. It would appear such gaps however minute present the pathway of least resistance than the swollen wet mass of a wick. However, leaking past such gaps and uptake by the wick would seem to make sense.

Thanks also for clarifying the issue of constants affecting downward force. There is no time for me today to take this up but it's an interesting discussion. And perhaps too complex for this thread as a design issue. Though a plausible argument I find little in clearo's that suggest a condition of stable vacuum pressure. We seem to experience anything but. It may be more relatively with a Mega I agree with you and that is a delightful discovery.

Thanks again cig.

 

[crg31953]

Hey All,

Just received an e-mail on this,

SideWinder EZ Coil Kit - RBA Supplies

SideWinder EZ Coil Kit



It actually looks pretty slick since the wire feeds through the spool. Seems to be a viable t.m.c. tool.

Vape On My Friends!

 

[cigatron]

Hey All,

Just received an e-mail on this,

SideWinder EZ Coil Kit - RBA Supplies

SideWinder EZ Coil Kit

View attachment 387182

It actually looks pretty slick since the wire feeds through the spool. Seems to be a viable t.m.c. tool.

Vape On My Friends!

Saw the video also crg. Seems to be pretty slick but sadly offers no control over tension that I can see. You?

cig

 

[MacTechVpr]

Hey All,

Just received an e-mail on this,

SideWinder EZ Coil Kit - RBA Supplies

SideWinder EZ Coil Kit

View attachment 387182

It actually looks pretty slick since the wire feeds through the spool. Seems to be a viable t.m.c. tool.

Vape On My Friends!

Forming, not tension. Easy to make contact with thick wire.

A jig forms. You have to stretch wire to impart strain that being equivalent to energy stored in the wire.

Such a wind particularly if close will definitely need to be torched to avoid thermal shorts. Not a real microcoil. You need tension to get one. Close but no cigar.

Why so called vape producers continue to ignore this is beyond me. Have they never vaped the result of a loose terminal connection. Aren't we talking about the same thing in principle? Let's design a device that makes some.

Between that and a spaced wind, I'd take the latter.

Just sayin'.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Saw the video also crg. Seems to be pretty slick but sadly offers no control over tension that I can see. You?

cig

Cig, I'm usin' your jig bro. Have at it. These people aren't competition.

Good luck.

 

[crg31953]

Yup, I see now where tension may be difficult on this one, oh well!

Vape On My Friends!

I see where you could crate tension ( where the wire enters the tool) but no way to maintain it unless the winder had a screw instead of a pin.