Provaping verse Antivaping
- Thread starter DeAnna2112
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Start?
Define start.
I still have to drive to pick up a pizza. No drinking for me yet. Don't worry, I'll catch up.
I think I resemble that remark. Not totally sure though ... I Googled 'notificatifality' and got nothing which doesn't happen often. You seem to have invented a new word
Love it and will try to use it at least a few times online just to give it a better chance to get some traction
I think I resemble that remark. Not totally sure though ... I Googled 'notificatifality' and got nothing which doesn't happen often. You seem to have invented a new word
Love it and will try to use it at least a few times online just to give it a better chance to get some traction
Ah, yes, Tonee was using the Olde Middle English version of notificatifatality.
MC Hammer ain't got nothing on me!
Justin Beaver, step aside Jack![emoji41]
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I'm provape but after reading this thread and I now think I'm a politician. From this day forward I will do my hardest to not pass any legislation unless it benefits me. Any legislation I do pass I will automatically exempt myself from. The taxpayers will pay for my platinum grade healthcare and pension for the rest of my life.
I will kiss thousands of babies and steal all their lollipops.
Ok, I'll take my clown suit off.
I believe there has not been enough research to date to draw any conclusions to point to whether vaping is better for us or bad. If you feel better since you started vaping and your doctor has proof of the fact, as mine does, then don't worry about what the news says. Live in peace and enjoy each and every day you have.[emoji3]
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I will kiss thousands of babies and steal all their lollipops.
Ok, I'll take my clown suit off.
I believe there has not been enough research to date to draw any conclusions to point to whether vaping is better for us or bad. If you feel better since you started vaping and your doctor has proof of the fact, as mine does, then don't worry about what the news says. Live in peace and enjoy each and every day you have.[emoji3]
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
The problem here, is that when considering the actual long term health risks of vaping, the only true gauge we have are never smokers who vape - and that's a difficult thing since the greatest majority of vapers are former smokers, having used vaping as a means to get off cigarettes.
It takes anywhere from 10-15 years after quitting smoking for your lungs to heal completely, and even then long term smoking causes damage that is absolutely permanent, never able to be reversed.
So, if you were to look at me even 20 years down the line, you cannot necessarily say if a problem was smoking related or vaping related. The only people you can accurately look at 20 years down the road, are never smokers who vaped long term.
The pool of those is so small, as to be insignificant at this point.. it's going to take another generation in order to get a large enough pool of never smokers who vape that can then be followed over the course of 20 years to determine any real long term risks that could be said to be specifically vaping related.
We can identify some small things now.. but the type of studies your looking for, won't be happening in our lifetimes - to be perfectly honest.
People can sit around talking about study this and study that, but the only studies that can give us a truly accurate measure cannot yet be done, which leaves us with the pool of people who "feel better" and begin to heal even though they vape, versus those who don't feel better and don't begin to heal even though they vape. And the feel better healing pool is large enough now, that it can be seen as a positive to vape, so for right now, that is the study we must look at, and honestly, the only one that will matter to us.
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Opinionated just stated above, what I was going to say.
There is NO WAY it can be determined that vaping is safe AT THIS TIME. The pool of people that data is being pulled from...are Former smokers. The data will be tainted.
The only true way to find what you seek is the generation that has never smoked and only vape. I honestly don't see a never smoker who picks up vaping continuing to vape for as many years as smokers have smoked.
More data is showing that young vapers that try it to be cool, curiosity or whatever, are able to put it down when they tire of the activity.
Isn't that a good thing?!?!
The answer to your question of 'is vaping harmful long term' can never be answered with certainty.
We are former smokers. Most of us long term smokers.
Just as skin cancer that presents itself in an adult, the damage started in childhood. Any health issues that present themselves in former smokers will be forever linked to the smoking.
Unless we have people that have only vaped for decades, and not smoked, the data you ask for cannot be mined.
It is impossible
How many deaths were related to vaping in 2016? How many to smoking????
"Vital statistics" are hard to argue with.
"Vital statistics" are hard to argue with.
I realized this is an over-simplification of a very complex issue, but I'm often somewhat of an over-simpleton, so it's at least consistent on my part.
It's the best I can do at this moment.
Happy Katurday, all. Vape & let vape.
Safe? Not safe? Not sure if I really care.
I suppose my attitude is one of resigned acceptance.
Everyone is going to die from something eventually. If we're lucky, we can make a decision about the method of our demise.
I smoked because I liked it. I switched to vaping because (after I tried it) I like it better.
I'll try to reduce the risk when I can, but with the understanding that nothing is (or even can be) completely risk free.
Nobody lives forever, I might as well enjoy it while I can.
I suppose my attitude is one of resigned acceptance.
Everyone is going to die from something eventually. If we're lucky, we can make a decision about the method of our demise.
I smoked because I liked it. I switched to vaping because (after I tried it) I like it better.
I'll try to reduce the risk when I can, but with the understanding that nothing is (or even can be) completely risk free.
Nobody lives forever, I might as well enjoy it while I can.
So after reading throgh this I think it's a pretty simple conclusion. A) People vape and believe it to be a better alternative than smoking, and many people report significant health improvements and feeling better, and that's the best we can do for now.
B) We are the guinea pigs for e-cigs as far as reasearch and development and changes in vaping gear but there aren't enough long-term studies to define e-cigs as "safe" yet we do our best to try and tease out risk, but we really can't. What data is there can be flawed, or good enough to make changes in vaping styles. But it's short term data.
C) the tainted smoker argument. I don't see how one couldn't complete a cohort study using tanted smokers still smoking and tainted smokers who took up vaping. Again, it's a cohort study, compared to a methedology study, but it would still provide valuable information, even if it's correlation data.
D) Everyone can do whatever the want, including supporting vaping, advocacy, and choosing to vape/not to vape.
I'm actually totally okay with that. And, if people start keeling over left and right at some point, I'll take a look at that data.
I think DeAnna's main point is that A) B) C) D) are not mutually exclusive.
Anna
B) We are the guinea pigs for e-cigs as far as reasearch and development and changes in vaping gear but there aren't enough long-term studies to define e-cigs as "safe" yet we do our best to try and tease out risk, but we really can't. What data is there can be flawed, or good enough to make changes in vaping styles. But it's short term data.
C) the tainted smoker argument. I don't see how one couldn't complete a cohort study using tanted smokers still smoking and tainted smokers who took up vaping. Again, it's a cohort study, compared to a methedology study, but it would still provide valuable information, even if it's correlation data.
D) Everyone can do whatever the want, including supporting vaping, advocacy, and choosing to vape/not to vape.
I'm actually totally okay with that. And, if people start keeling over left and right at some point, I'll take a look at that data.
I think DeAnna's main point is that A) B) C) D) are not mutually exclusive.
Anna
I'm gone for one day and there are 6 pages to catch up on?? This is worse than the Tootle thread.
OK, without trying to grab quotes from 6 pages and turning this post into a miasma of uncertainty, I'd like to just run with it. I am also NOT singling out a single person here and am making no judgement on opinions.
First, long term safety. There is no need to compare vapers to non-vapers to establish the safety profile among those who use vaping for harm reduction. If a smoker for 10 years and vaper for 20 years is compared to a smoker of 30 years, safety under that particular umbrella of vaping use is absolutely valid. If you really want to look at safety of long term vapers who never smoked to never used anything, that's even easier to do as the never smokes/vaped data already exists. Finding vapers with 20 years of use who never smoked is going to be a sorta tough one on that issue.
The area of concern about long term safety really only applies to younger smokers who will be vaping for 30 years and still be under the age of 50 or 60. For most here with 30 or 40 year smoking histories, well, we're not going to be around long enough for a 30 year safety profile to really matter. For us older vapers, long term safety relative to age for risk has probably already been established. We know ex-smokers who vape have lower levels of known carcinogens in their systems compared to smokers (this is in actual people, not cell cultures or making primates smoke to test it out). We know ex-smokers now vapers with COPD have fewer exacerbations than smokers with COPD. 20 and 30 year long term safety studies will be interesting to read, if I'm still alive to read them.
Is there anything out there that would make me stop vaping for the sake of safety? No, because I'll probably go back to smoking, and that cohort is generally looking at real trouble. Is there anything out there that will make me change my vaping style? Eh, not really, as there's not enough real world data to support those changes based on the vape gear I use, but I still keep my eyes open and await more information on that side of things.
Finally, if I had a child who took up smoking I would encourage them to get off the smokes with vaping. However, I'd probably encourage them to get off vaping after several years if they had no desire to smoke. If they stopped and did find themselves drawn back to cigarettes, then yeah, restart vaping. That's based on the information available today, not 10 or 20 years from now. Hopefully by then enough information will be out for my child to make their own decisions on the topic.
OK, without trying to grab quotes from 6 pages and turning this post into a miasma of uncertainty, I'd like to just run with it. I am also NOT singling out a single person here and am making no judgement on opinions.
First, long term safety. There is no need to compare vapers to non-vapers to establish the safety profile among those who use vaping for harm reduction. If a smoker for 10 years and vaper for 20 years is compared to a smoker of 30 years, safety under that particular umbrella of vaping use is absolutely valid. If you really want to look at safety of long term vapers who never smoked to never used anything, that's even easier to do as the never smokes/vaped data already exists. Finding vapers with 20 years of use who never smoked is going to be a sorta tough one on that issue.
The area of concern about long term safety really only applies to younger smokers who will be vaping for 30 years and still be under the age of 50 or 60. For most here with 30 or 40 year smoking histories, well, we're not going to be around long enough for a 30 year safety profile to really matter. For us older vapers, long term safety relative to age for risk has probably already been established. We know ex-smokers who vape have lower levels of known carcinogens in their systems compared to smokers (this is in actual people, not cell cultures or making primates smoke to test it out). We know ex-smokers now vapers with COPD have fewer exacerbations than smokers with COPD. 20 and 30 year long term safety studies will be interesting to read, if I'm still alive to read them.
Is there anything out there that would make me stop vaping for the sake of safety? No, because I'll probably go back to smoking, and that cohort is generally looking at real trouble. Is there anything out there that will make me change my vaping style? Eh, not really, as there's not enough real world data to support those changes based on the vape gear I use, but I still keep my eyes open and await more information on that side of things.
Finally, if I had a child who took up smoking I would encourage them to get off the smokes with vaping. However, I'd probably encourage them to get off vaping after several years if they had no desire to smoke. If they stopped and did find themselves drawn back to cigarettes, then yeah, restart vaping. That's based on the information available today, not 10 or 20 years from now. Hopefully by then enough information will be out for my child to make their own decisions on the topic.
Can I get mine with diacetyl?
I'll take the low salt version.
4000 chemicals in cigarette smoke. 50 of those are carcinogens.
Most, if not all of the possible bad chemicals in vapor are a result of vaping at high temperatures. Keep it cool and it's considered so much safer than cigarettes.
PSA: vaping at high voltages produces high levels of a carcinogen
If you live in a big city, stay off the highly traveled streets. You can get all sorts of dangerous airborne chemicals standing on a street corner.
Seriously, life is a series of choices. Choosing vaping over smoking is a wise choice.
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