Provari and Variable Wattage.

[Pappy]

No. It is not different numbers that mean the same thing.

One is a measure of input, the other is a measure of output. The output is dependent on the input voltage and the resistance. If you control the output directly, you don't have to think about the input or resistance.

If you control the input only, then you have to account for the resistance to get to the output.

It is kind of like a baker controlling his bread oven by a) choosing the flow rate of gas to the oven, or b) choosing the temperature he wants to bake at.

One (VW) is a more simple control approach than the other (VV).

Can you get to the same place with both? Of course. Is it hard to adjust the voltage to find the sweet spot? Not really.

That still doesn't change the fact that having the choice between 2 devices that are the same in all other aspects, the VW would be easier to use and definitely better for someone that vapes using a lot of different resistances.

I don't feel like I need VW, but I do appreciate your explanation, which is one of the best and most understandable that I've seen.

 

[glauserjg]

Indeed. The precious Provari is going to be extinct soon with that market plan. It is as I predicted.

In the MEANTIME, you can wait in line for a Texas Select Vapor "Stallion" which is a VV/VW (!) device with a 22650 Lithium Manganese (HUGE) battery (and it comes with 2 and a charger). It's made in America, MSRP is $175 and it kicks ..... I believe it also has the DNA12 chip in it which is the same technology that the Darwin uses. That's why they sold out so fast (a Darwin is even harder to get, ugly, and goes for $250 before batteries and a charger). VW is the way of the future, VV is the way of the past. Why do maths or reference a table or chart when you can simply plug and play? No one wants to learn Ohm's Law. I only did it for funsies.

You can sign up on the waiting list here:
The Stallion - Advanced Personal Vaporizer - Mod - APV | Texas Select Vapor

and if you want to drool over what it was before the new modifications you can do so here:
The Stallion APV

The Zmax has issues of output inaccuracy, and durability. If you look inside one the circuitboard is what your batteries connect to. A simple vertical drop, squeezing too big of a size of batteries in there without the proper endcap and the thing starts acting weird on you. That's too fragile for my taste. There are fresh vids of this problem posted on my blog (link's in the signature - go there and click the Handbook link at the top). I'd say pass on the Zmax for now (which is in its second version already and it barely got released). Now it has an 8th menu screen for RMS; Root Mean Square (PWM - Pulse Width Modulation) adjustment which really apparently doesn't help the accuracy issue. Highly technical stuff I'm saying, but the end result is a substandard product that's (IMO) not ready for market, as is often the case (but not always), with China.

If you just want to get in the door for cheap, and you can get past the formfactor of a box mod, I'd recommend a Smoktech VV Gripper. At ~$60 a pop (sometimes $55 go with Vaporbeast and tell Tim Campbell that Shoga sent you. You'll probably get a free gift and all orders are free shipping) you really can't go wrong. They're durable and they do everything a Provari can for a fraction of the price. Sure they're a little inaccurate in the output, but it's not a big deal for that price range. Plus if you drop one it will bounce instead of scratch like a Provari or a Zmax would. Win.

The zmax v2 is almost dead on accurate fyi

 

[Baditude]

OK, so Baditude, lets say you are looking to buy a new variable power device. In this scenario, you have narrowed down to 2 devices. One with VV only and one with VW and VV. Everything else is exactly the same, manufactured by the same people, same materials, same buttons same menu system except the menu includes a way to change the control to either VV or VW.

Are you telling me you would choose the VV device?

If it is the cheaper of the two versions, of course I would. As elmattias has said, if you have reached a comfort zone with the same proven attachments, which I have, the method of getting there doesn't matter, whether it is variable wattage or variable voltage. It's really that simple.

 

[Baditude]

The zmax v2 is almost dead on accurate fyi

Has Smoktech contacted zmax v1 owners for their upgrade yet?

 

[elmattias]

Has Smoktech contacted zmax v1 owners for their upgrade yet?

more like.....

 

[glauserjg]

They accepted my v1 to change the board out for shipping charges only. Contacted them last week and shipped it out today. Have my v2 and provari to fall back on

 

[GalenCopes]

Has Smoktech contacted zmax v1 owners for their upgrade yet?

I really don't care if it is accurate...I do care if the results are consistent. I can barely read the displays without reading glasses so I really don't care if it says 3.7 volts or 4.0 volts as long as I like the vape it is producing. Now, if the voltage varies wildly at the same setting, now we do have a problem.

I just don't get why the same people who have a problem with the biggest pile-of-crap ZMax's supposed lack of accuracy don't have a problem with the lack of a VW option on the actually delivered by the hand of God Provari.

Galen

 

[Baditude]

They accepted my v1 to change the board out for shipping charges only. Contacted them last week and shipped it out today. Have my v2 and provari to fall back on

Then kudos to Smoktech.

Just curious, how much was that to ship to China, or do they have US division that can do it?

 

[elmattias]

I really don't care if it is accurate...I do care it the results are consistent. I can barely read the displays without reading glasses so I really don't care if it says 3.7 volts or 4.0 volts as long as I like the vape it is producing. Now, if the voltage varies wildly at the same setting, now we do have a problem.

I just don't get why the same people who have a problem with the biggest pile-of-crap ZMax's supposed lack of accuracy don't have a problem with the lack of a VW option on the actually delivered by the hand of God Provari.

Galen

if you care that the results are consistant, then i'm sure you're absolutely loving that lavatube of yours....i used to use mine a lot, until i realized the performance went in the hopper when the battery got low....then the plastic top cap cracked in half and i had wires everywhere....then the plastic bottom cap broke and i couldn't get the endcap unscrewed without a pair of vice grips.....

then i bought a provari....and all those problems stopped.

 

[GalenCopes]

I did go through that with my lt...even resoldered it a time or two, then had to replace it and decided ZMax strictly because of the lack of VW on the Provari. The owner of my local vapestore had his used Provari on the shelf for sale that I could have had that day...but had his ZMax in his hand being used. If his ZMax would have been SS, I would have bought it out of his hand, it wasn't so I ordered what I wanted.

The whole point of this thread is when Provapes will add a VW option. If they had one, I would have one in the mail instead of the ZMax. Their build quality really is very nice and solid.

Galen

 

[junkman]

as stated, its not about the math, you all keep missing my point....it's like beating a dead horse in this debate with all you VW fanboys....i have to ask, have you even tried a VW device?

all that though is besides the point....i've stated it before, this is about performance, i can fine tune my wattage better with VV, and galen, you proved my point earlier about any vaper worth his salt can find the sweet spot blindfolded on an atomizer. thanks....this is about trying to find a number that works for you on the device you are using, sure, VW is nice, but is it absolutely necessary? no. so i ask...what is necessary?

knowing your device and knowing what you like to vape at with that device is certainly necessary, and in my previous analogy it came up like this:

provari set at 4.9 volts with a 3 ohm atomizer=8 watts

darwin set at 8 watts with the same 3 ohm atomizer = 4.9 volts

you are using two different numbers to get the same result....if you play around with a device long enough, you know the number for that device+atty combo and there is no math involved...the only time you turn the dial is when you switch your juice delivery a lot, or you are one of the many habitual vivi nova fanboys as well, and you rebuild into different resistances...and even then i can probably set the voltage on any one of my devices blindfolded without having to do math on a RBA and get the same result.

so once again i'll say it: forget the math, think performance. again i'll say another thing: this is a two horse race right now, its provari and darwin, i don't see any other mod out right now that can compete with the raw performance and efficiency, and i don't see any VW device coming out that is going to be much of a game changer, at least not until DNA20 is in modder hands.

To me maybe we are both missing each other's points. You seem to be wanting to discuss devices, while I am discussing a technology.

The sad part is I already agreed with you about your device, several times, but you seem to have missed that or feel that because I favor a technology that your device is lacking you must attack that technology.

In the end, my assessment is that you and some others here seem to be unable to think in abstract terms about merits of differing control schemes apart from bringing it into the context of comparing a Provari to some other device.

I see no further point in discussing this as it really doesn't mean squat in the big picture either way, and I have defended my position in several different ways and it makes no headway.

So enjoy your vape.

 

[elmattias]

I did go through that with my lt...even resoldered it a time or two, then had to replace it and decided ZMax strictly because of the lack of VW on the Provari. The owner of my local vapestore had his used Provari on the shelf for sale that I could have had that day...but had his ZMax in his hand being used. If his ZMax would have been SS, I would have bought it out of his hand, it wasn't so I ordered what I wanted.

The whole point of this thread is when Provapes will add a VW option. If they had one, I would have one in the mail instead of the ZMax. Their build quality really is very nice and solid.

Galen

you'll probably go through the same thing with the zmax tbh....its a cheap chinese made product.....it just comes with the territory

 

[junkman]

If it is the cheaper of the two versions, of course I would. As elmattias has said, if you have reached a comfort zone with the same proven attachments, which I have, the method of getting there doesn't matter, whether it is variable wattage or variable voltage. It's really that simple.

So you are hedging abit? I said the only difference was VV vs. VV/VW. Price is the same. And your answer?

 

[glauserjg]

Then kudos to Smoktech.

Just curious, how much was that to ship to China, or do they have US division that can do it?

It was a total of 22 dollars to go out to Shenzhen that includes it coming back as well

 

[glauserjg]

I think be is great but is it the end all be all of vaping? IMO def not. I like the options lf Vv too for getting rid of shorts on my rba's. both technologies get you to the same place one is just quicker

 

[GalenCopes]

you'll probably go through the same thing with the zmax tbh....its a cheap chinese made product.....it just comes with the territory

Regrettably, you are correct. I was stuck with a decision of a Chinese product that is current or an American company who refuses to adapt to the demands of the public. I am sure that the people at Provapes know people want the latest and greatest, especially when people are willing to pay a premium for a well built product. Their unwillingness to adapt has cost them this customer. I wonder how many others would have chosen them had they simply adapted.

Galen

 

[xplumberx]

I have to agree.. I got Zmax V1 and not even 2 weeks later out comes the V2 which does what the V1 should have done in the first place!

I think Provape just might be perfectly content to continue to make what many consider to be the best variable voltage APV. They likely will purchase the rights for the DNA-120 from Evolv for their R & D, but I wouldn't expect them to release a variable wattage APV until it has been as perfected right out of the box like the Provari 2. And that could be a year or more from now, if they ever do so at all.

It's very possible that after all the initial enthusiasm for VW, it may come down to being pratical and useful for a limited number of customers when all is said and done. I'm only theorizing here and of course it is only my opinion. Allow me that. It might actually be quite useful for many customers, but for many others it's benefits may not appear all that intriguing or useful. As others have pointed out, you can get to the same sweet spot in a variety of different ways.

I'm not against progressive technology. In fact I welcome it. Just do it right from the start and not put out a device that has major flaws. It's ridiculous how the Far East manufacturers put out what amounts to be nothing more than beta test devices, and then every month put out v2, v3, etc. I will never buy stuff in that way, but that's just me I guess.

That's one of the things I admire about Provape. When they introduce a product it works as advertised right out of the box. True, Provape did respond to some of their customers' desires to upgrade the original Provari by increasing it's amp limit, but that is to their credit to even offer to upgrade an already sold item. Not every Provari v1 customer wanted or needed the upgrade. The point I want to make is I don't know of any other company in this business who is willing to do that for their already sold products. Someone said the Z-max v2 has corrected the output issues that v1 had. Tell me, has Smoktech offered to fix the output issues on its earlier models?

Whether Provape decides to add variable wattage or not, there will continue to be a market for such a high quality product that the Provari is. As long as a device continues to be well made in the manner as the Provari is, there will always be a market for it based on longstanding reputation, high quality build, and customer service. Just look at Altsmoke's Silver Bullet. It is essentually a bare-bones mechanical mod, not inexpensive at $85, but it has continued to sell well because of its excellent manufacturing, reputation for durability, and great customer service.

 

[grandmato5]

Its great so many love their Provari's (or other vv devices) and also great many love thier VW devices BUT many vapors are perfectly happy living without either and will remain so. I've spend an afternoon using a Darwin. Much nicer device then I had presumed before having it in my hands. Used a Provari for a week when a friend was kind enough to let me try her's out. I've no real complaints with either, but neither did I find either a better vaping experience then my preferred APV's I already owned. I don't expect my preferences to be the preferences of others. All I ask is that others that vape don't presume I need what they prefer to keep me a happy vaporer

A long time ago now I learned the basics of ohms and volts and watts. I can easily do the math if I wished, I just rarely have any need to now. I needed to learn them to better understand my vaping toys to both give me "my" best vaping experience and help keep me safe and my vaping toys safe. Yes, I know the general area of my preferred wattage but other then that I haven't the slightest idea what wattage I'm vaping at and could care less. If it taste good and satisfies me that's all I need to know.

I own vv devices and enjoy them but I also enjoy my 3.7 and 5 VT devices. Will I ever own a vw device ? As more come on the market its certainly a possiblity, but at the same time never a requirement to keep me a happy vaporer

 

[elmattias]

Regrettably, you are correct. I was stuck with a decision of a Chinese product that is current or an American company who refuses to adapt to the demands of the public. I am sure that the people at Provapes know people want the latest and greatest, especially when people are willing to pay a premium for a well built product. Their unwillingness to adapt has cost them this customer. I wonder how many others would have chosen them had they simply adapted.

Galen

and how are they "refusing" to adapt? last i checked i haven't seen a fervent and outstanding denial of potentially a VW device coming from provape, so i don't know how you can make such accusations about them since you simply cannot call your previous statement truth beyond a shadow of a doubt....

i used to be just like you, i have many a mod sitting right here next to me on my nightstand....but when i reach over to take a vape, i grab the 'vari....because i know that vape is the same every single time, right down until the battery dies...and you would be hard pressed to find another mod that did that every single time you popped in a new battery.

now....when and if provape decides to release a VW device...rest assured it will be the sturdiest, best built of all the VW mods around, and that it will most likely outlast anything you may have now.

 

[DPLongo22]

If ProVape puts out a VW device, that's awesome. Not that I'd be buying one, but it's still cool. Maybe when my VV V2 dies, but I'm not buying it strictly because it's VW, because it won't make my vape any better. But that's just me.