Admittedly my post was a bit hyperbolic in an effort to drive the point across that vaping bans are arbitrary and capricious and have nothing to do with health or courtesy.
Public Vapeing
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This is turning out to be an extremely interesting thread. In the UK, there are an increasing amount of people using eGo batteries with clearos, and larger mods are seen very rarely indeed, to the extent where being seen in public with a mech mod in 18650 mode with a large atty like a Rose or a Taifun GT can raise eyebrows. I got one female passer-by eye up my Nemesis the other day, and she switched from a look of surprise to saying "Ha!". If I'd been quicker off the mark I would have asked her if she said "Ha!" to smokers she passed. Ignorant so and so!
How rude and ignoorant can people be, just seeing a mod. God knows what would happen if I took a hit from one in a cafe. There are just too many ignorant people in the world, and is it worth the grief? A mate of mine was vaping on a train station platform, and was told shrilly by a member of the public that smoking was not allowed! He replied it wasnt smoking and she said "But it strinks. I'm calling the police!".
So on one hand we say vape in public an don't behave as if we are doing anything wrong, but on the other hand we have to cope with prejudice, hostility and outright ignorance. vaping is hard!
How rude and ignoorant can people be, just seeing a mod. God knows what would happen if I took a hit from one in a cafe. There are just too many ignorant people in the world, and is it worth the grief? A mate of mine was vaping on a train station platform, and was told shrilly by a member of the public that smoking was not allowed! He replied it wasnt smoking and she said "But it strinks. I'm calling the police!".
So on one hand we say vape in public an don't behave as if we are doing anything wrong, but on the other hand we have to cope with prejudice, hostility and outright ignorance. vaping is hard!
I'll just say I think an establishment's policy regarding vaping should be set by the owner, not by the government. And that goes for smoking as well.
Slightly OT, but I'd say MOST regulations are about power and money, not happy and safe constituents.
Slightly OT, but I'd say MOST regulations are about power and money, not happy and safe constituents.
I didn't articulate my thoughts well in my previous posts. I see nothing wrong with vapeing in public. I do think openly vapeing in places where smoking is prohibited is asking for it. I'm not talking about stealth vapeing when stuck in a smoke free place for long periods. I'm talking about walking down the center isle of Wally World puffing away.
I agree that this does make it hard. But if observing this correctly, it is the prejudice, hostility and ignorance that is making it hard for the vaper. If I think back to any issue dealing with minorities and how they appear in public, it was 98% the prejudice and then around 2% (maybe less) the brazen, and sometimes misguided, minority member that made things hard for general public to simply go along with that. Nowadays, certain minority items that were 50 years ago a big deal, would be treated in this discussion, by most, as not a big deal, and completely bigoted if person speaks against that. To help drive this point home, without getting too specific, I am one that gets a wee bit (ever so slightly) discomforted by public displays of affection, even among heterosexuals. Now, take a minority person and have them do PDA, and my discomfort is equal, whereas them who are prejudice against that minority will claim it is complete violation against all that is good (and holy) in our civilized society.
And, as I see it the answer is 'more of the same' and to either enter into reasonable discussion with the haters when they are ready for that type of discussion, or make them the minority that is hindering social advancement and shun them from societal gatherings, if they are going to stick to that attitude.
With vaping, it is compounded by the whole smoking thing that is filled with plenty of good points from those who do not care for smoking and plenty of trumped up hyperbolic deceptive points by those who are anti-smoking and using deception is not beneath their goals for civilized society. With smoking, it often strikes me that around 80 to 98% of the public is prejudice against it (and includes many smokers, for sure ex-smokers), and that we who enjoy civilization also enjoy being barbaric savages when it comes to treatment of fellow smokers in public. Then tie vaping to smoking and voila, it is possible that hostility toward the vaping minority is actually a pretty good thing for all involved. Except for the vaper of course, but the more they can be treated like smoker, the better.
And bonus points for those vapers that treat their activity as same as smoking. Making the anti crowd's work much easier and making it so hostility is seen as righteous rather than barbaric.
Well i'm still fairly new to vaping only two weeks and a bit in, i sympathise with you Jhelliwell like you i'm also in the uk. I don't know what the procedure is regards trains and platforms. The pub chain Weatherspoons have a total ban in their pubs, read somewhere on the internet that is because their staff can't tell the difference between cigarettes and E cigs. I was out last Sat i do ask if i can vape in the bars out of courtesy some you can some you can't. We need to carry on supporting each other on here. But like Jhellwell vaping is popular in my home city i see a fair few vapers out there on a regular basis. In Nottingham shops are popping up all over the place.
No person deserves to be discriminated for vaping in a public place by anyone.
No person deserves to be discriminated for vaping in a public place by anyone.
No I do get it and that silly argument has no weight on this topic. It doesn't matter what we think or even know vapor to be. The point being in most cases you can vape in pubic such as walking down the street or sitting on a bench or whatever. However indoors is a seperate topic and isn't your choice, its up to the establishment. This isn't hard to understand.
You think not openly vapeing where smoking is prohibited makes it easier for the anti crowd?
In a sense, yes. It sends the message of, "even vapers know that what they exhale is likely causing some harm to bystanders. Therefore the only people that dispute this policy are extremist.'
I think this issue will continue to rest on the picture that is either presented or implied as to where is this occurring. Is it in crowded cramped space, where smoking is prohibited, that this vaper wishes to disregard common courtesy and vaping ordinance? Is it in open, virtually person-free space, where smoking is prohibited, that the vaper wishes to disregard the vaping ordinance?
Literally, of the last 100 times I was in a public situation (indoors or outdoors), it was around 85% of the time that I was in a space that was not crowded, and that there were no people around. So, in 85% of the situations where smoking is likely prohibited, I would say it would be very okay to openly vape. And then 15% of the time, I would either have a intellectual challenge to justify the 'with respect' position that I maintain for 'vape everywhere' or I would just resort to the current known science and hope the argument sticks to those points so I don't have to face the other challenge. But in the 85% of public circumstances, I see the other side as greatly challenged by suggesting that I am somehow breaking common courtesy by vaping in a hospital space where no persons have been found in say the last 5 minutes.
You can bet it will be regulated and not allowed the same as smoking. They will not allow the dispersing of chemicals anywhere in a public place if it could or might effect someone else. This could go for just about anything at all thats sprays scented mist into the air. The question I have is why should I have to breath their automatic bathroom freshener misting? I mean at some point when you start regulating you end up having to regulate everything.
Could coughing or sneezing be next? I mean I hate it when someone is sneezing, hacking and coughing all over the joint for any reason.
Some people go places sick as a dog and don't care if it effects other people around them.
Anyhow if you want to fight it you have to use all the arguments for and against spreading things in public places you can muster.
Could coughing or sneezing be next? I mean I hate it when someone is sneezing, hacking and coughing all over the joint for any reason.
Some people go places sick as a dog and don't care if it effects other people around them.
Anyhow if you want to fight it you have to use all the arguments for and against spreading things in public places you can muster.
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But Doesn't this Open Up Another Big Issue.
Will all Vaper's Respect the Wishes of a Business Owner to Restrict e-Cigarette use Inside their Buildings?
I can put a Sign on my door that says "No e-Cigarette Use" like my Wal-Mart has, but people still take hits inside the Store. Some even do it in Check Out Line.
Everyone who smells what I'm vaping loves it and always try to guess what it is. Also I always ask before I vape at the bar and they don't even think twice before giving me a yes. The guy who wrote the article seems like a bigot.
Going into a venue this weekend I was holding my mod in my hand. The security gnome at the door threatened: "if you're seen with that inside you'll be thrown out". They didn't say anything to my smoker friend who was holding a pack of Marbs and lighter
im a security guard, thankfully we dont have to tell people not to use them because where i work they are allowed
Personally, I would respect that sign. For reasons unrelated to vaping, I like to stay as "grey" as possible.
Somewhat off topic, but to me, there is an unspoken agreement between me and retailers. They provide me with a service that's available to me if I can abide by the terms they set for the transaction. I can agree to those terms, or I can find somewhere else to spend my money.
I vape all day long. I mainly frequent establishments where I know the owner and have been given permission to vape, including my favorite coffee house. I vape heavily, visibly, and with much enjoyment. I don't vape anywhere I haven't asked permission, and I'd likely stop if asked politely. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong, and I'll be damned if I'll act like I'm ashamed of enjoying myself. If that means I'm an inconsiderate jerk I guess I'm ok with that. I've had a grand total of one complaint, at a concert where I had been given permission. Now, it was fairly crowded so I was exhaling up over my head, but this particular gentleman offered to do me violence for "blowing poison" on him. That didn't meet my definition of polite, so I informed him he should probably take his complaints to the management that had given me permission before I gave him every beating his parents should have in condensed form as a lesson on how not to make requests of strangers. He decided to go complain or just relocated, I got a few polite nods from surrounding witnesses and we all went back to enjoying the show and drinking over priced Budweiser products. I guess I could have treated my vaping as a dirty habit and snuck off to the outdoor smoker's hell everytime I wanted a vape, but if that's what's required to meet some people's definition of polite niceties I think I'll just keep on being happily inconsiderate.
Honestly, and this is just my opinion, I really feel like the majority of indoor vapors are the new type. When I first vaped, two years ago, after asking the manager at apple bees, I vaped at my table using a cig-a-like. No one said anything to me. Now a days, I know not to to that. You see, I try my hardest to let analog smokers make complete asses of themselves, while I keep my distance. People who smoke cigarettes, well most of them, don't care who is around them. Just yesterday my step sister lit up right, and I mean right, beside my month old daughter. Where as I, even though I vape in my own home, do not blow my vapor at her or around her. Some studies show that it is NOT just water vapor that is in the mist, the it also still contains some nicotine. Unless, of course, you are a nic free type. Although it is 10 times less than cigarettes, there is still "second hand vapor" because of the very small trace of nicotine.
When I'm in public I make sure people know I vape. Not in a rude way, I mean, I have a bumper sticker that says "Got Vapor?" on the back of my car. Any time I go to a store, I vape on my way to the front door, but always put it away when entering the place. And even if I'm outside, I make certain that no one is behind me while I'm walking, this way, I know I'm not blowing vapor right into an innocent persons face.
Most of todays smokers do not do this. It's somewhat of a chore going to walmart now simply because there are always at least two people smoking right in front of the doors, which I of course, have to walk through. The only place I vape in now is the vape shop. And that is because I feel the need to. As ironic as it may be, they have a "No Smoking" sign on their front window, which I find hilarious.
Anyway, because of my careful behavior, the only confrontations I've had with people, are them asking me where to buy one.
When I'm in public I make sure people know I vape. Not in a rude way, I mean, I have a bumper sticker that says "Got Vapor?" on the back of my car. Any time I go to a store, I vape on my way to the front door, but always put it away when entering the place. And even if I'm outside, I make certain that no one is behind me while I'm walking, this way, I know I'm not blowing vapor right into an innocent persons face.
Most of todays smokers do not do this. It's somewhat of a chore going to walmart now simply because there are always at least two people smoking right in front of the doors, which I of course, have to walk through. The only place I vape in now is the vape shop. And that is because I feel the need to. As ironic as it may be, they have a "No Smoking" sign on their front window, which I find hilarious.
Anyway, because of my careful behavior, the only confrontations I've had with people, are them asking me where to buy one.
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I never equated vaping with smoking. If a store says no smoking, that is a cigarette thing. I think the ANTZ (Anti-Nicotine & Tobacco Zealots) want to tie the two together so people will have the same disgust for vaping as they do for smoking. I use a vaporizer, I don't smoke anything.
It is not so much that I go out campaigning and pushing my opinion around either. I vape and if someone asks me about it, I tell them my story and how a VAPORIZER helped me.
It is not so much that I go out campaigning and pushing my opinion around either. I vape and if someone asks me about it, I tell them my story and how a VAPORIZER helped me.
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I Would/Do also. But Unfortunately, there is a Small Fractions who will Not. And this Sets into Motion Bans Laws.
Now I know what People are Going to Say. If I Can't Vape inside buildings, what's the Difference if there is a Law Against it or Not? And If this was as far as Ban Laws went, then the Above is a Reasonable Argument. But that Isn't the way I see how Policy/Law Makers work.
When Policy/Law Makers start rolling, they tend to Go Overboard and take Heavy Handed Approaches. And in Indoor Ban Isn't Enough for them.
Things like Bans on 50' from Building Entrances, Parking Indoor/Outdoor Lots, City and State Outdoor Properties, School Campuses, Inside Cars with Children, etc. start getting thrown into the Mix. They Also can turn there eye onto Zoning as to where e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids can be Sold.
A Small Rock rolling down a Hill can sometimes turn into a Huge Bolder.
Actually from everything I have read, PG when heated to high temps also creates Formaldehyde which is a carcinogen. It is a fraction of the formaldehyde released by analogs, but it is present. I did not do this study so I do not know if it is valid or not.
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