I can think of at least one other activity that causes the same thing and I don't believe anyone is trying to ban IT.
I wonder if there have been any studies to see how much healthier babies were before this great scare.
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Question for all those "only vape where I can smoke" people.
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I can think of at least one other activity that causes the same thing and I don't believe anyone is trying to ban IT.
I wonder if there have been any studies to see how much healthier babies were before this great scare.
I agree but they wouldn't have to. I was born back before the so called "studies" were done. There are hundreds of thousands of folks living today that were born before the "studies" that said It may be harmful.
you notice it says may,not does.
at one point in time 30 percent of the female population smoked.
where is the fetal nicotine syndrome?
doesn't the same study suggest no long term cardiovascular affects.
mike
Children born after my generation are weak- probably due to environmental conditions, food additives, water bottles, prescription medicines... I was 10 lbs. 8oz, yet now when I see the birth announcements at work, it seems the average baby is in the 6 lb. range. Kids have all these allergies which were seemingly non existent 40 years ago. Kids today are on more meds than their parents. Kids get a cold and they are put on antibiotics, which just compromises their immune system in the long run, along with the germ paranoia. There's no way to compare how secondary smoke affects my generation to those born after smoking restrictions; people are different and inherently weaker...
So is Kool aid mix.
Don't believe me?
Try transporting a truck load of it and see the hoops you have to jump through.
The dose ALWAYS makes the poison.
Question is; how much of ingredient "X" can be safely inhaled on a daily basis and how much can be realistically inhaled under "Y" circumstances.
We are defining x as diketones and y as vaporizing.
Tapatyped
This, a thousand times, this.
People always say that we need the liquid tested to know what's in it, and sometimes they even ask how much(which is really more important). However, even when we know exactly what is in the liquid/vapor, like with Dr. F's newly released study, it is only half of the equation. For now, because we lack anything better, people tend to quote the NIOSH guidelines. Those are an ok starting point but they are based off of occupational exposure, meaning 40 hours a week for years. What we need are studies about safe exposure limits for the chemicals we use, in the way that we use them. Unfortunately I don't see those happening anytime soon.
I know that I personally actively vape less than 3 hours a day, and hardly ever the same flavor for those three hours, so as long as my flavorings don't contain 3 times the NIOSH limit I feel relatively safe. You can do your own math.
Yes it is... which means that even in a pregnant woman, it would be far less harmful than smoking -- which I did, while pregnant, because pregnancy doesn't confer a magical ability to quit smoking just because it's a good idea. So if I were still in my childbearing years, I would undoubtedly vape while pregnant, though I would also probably decrease the nicotine quite sharply, because nicotine does constrict blood vessels, a bad thing for a fetus. Which is actually exactly how I handled smoking, while pregnant -- I smoked only enough to keep the worst withdrawal symptoms at bay, which meant instead of my usual 2 pks a day, I smoked 3 or 4 cigs a day -- about a 10-fold reduction, from 40 cigs to 4. My son was born full-term, almost a week late in fact, and weighed nearly 8 lbs. He's now almost 27, about 5'11", with a proportionate weight for his height.
Andria
Agree with the second part. And appreciate you starting this thread. It's a good question you ask in OP, that in my reading of the first 10 pages is answered directly maybe 5 times. I think it is a good question and good to be asked on a vaping forum.
But I disagree with notion of a) we don't smoke in public anymore, because b) it is harmful. I very much understand that as a non-smoking vaper, you would rather not be put with the smokers in an unventilated room to do your vaping. This is what I take as main point (or inquiry) of this thread. But we (some of us) do still smoke in public and I am one that will call out the harmful aspect of smoking. Call me unconvinced or ignorant. I don't care. I'm up to the task of debating how harmful is smoking exactly, and I observe in my many times of making this point that most vapers are under prepared in determining how harmful is smoking actually. So, feel free to be the one that takes up the cause of how harmful smoking actually is. I don't say it is harmless (cause nothing on planet earth is, inherently) and do say that it is nowhere near as harmful as we've been lead to believe, by the same people who claim harm for smoking and also share same 'knowledge' about harms of vaping. Thus, if you are on top of your game, you'll be able to show proof of harm from smoking from an entity that also does not have studies / research to demonstrate (or 'prove') harms of vaping. I wish you luck.
We (some of us) do not smoke in public because ANTZ like entities have convinced the masses that it is of grave danger to be around anyone, in any location, where SHS is present. We do not smoke in public because laws have been passed in most places on planet earth that lead citizens to thinking smoking will be of grave harm to themselves and to all people around them.
The same campaign is being employed with vaping, and this thread and the umpteen dozen like it, show that some vapers are gullible enough to buy into this notion of SHV will be of grave harm to all persons around them, regardless of location.
The ONLY reason I refrained from smoking in public indoor spaces was because I didn't want to pay a $500 fine -- but outdoors? I smoked publically everywhere, and defied anyone to say anything to me about it -- I was OUTDOORS smoking because I could no longer do it indoors. No "smoker's shame" here, ever.
Now, I mostly refrain from vaping in indoor public spaces just because I got accustomed to not smoking in those places, so it doesn't feel like any hardship to me, in fact I mostly don't even think of it, and frankly, engaging in a battle of wits with the unarmed is a much bigger hardship, to me. I *have* vaped in public indoor spaces; either by asking if the proprietor cared (they didn't), or by stealth/bathroom breaks -- and that latter is again because I don't care to engage in a battle of wits with the self-righteous but utterly unarmed. Trying to enlighten the ignorant is a job for a person far more patient than I am.
Andria
IMO, you are mistaken about why smoking is banned in outdoor locations. I believe it is partly due to reasons you stated as mostly due to the smell factor that a non-smoker can encounter when walking, playing, standing in a park like setting where smoking is allowed. And as the argument works for indoor places, it can / does work for outdoor places.
I play disc golf often and last week was ahead of a group that were vaping. I too was vaping. There were several times when I was more than 150 feet from this group and the air 'all around me' smelled like cotton candy. I like that smell. It was very nice during this rare 80 degree day in early May. Made me feel like being in a park as a kid. Took me a moment or two to realize it was coming from the group behind me, and so when they caught up to me (for around the 10th time that day), I asked what flavor one was vaping and he said "pineapple custard." Not sure how one (me) gets cotton candy from that, but I told him it smelled very good.
To me.
But to another, that could be downright disgusting and offensive that someone dare 'pollute' the fresh park air with that odor.
With vaping, or smoking, outdoors the odd thing is that you have zero control how the wind will handle your exhale. Thus a case could be made, rather easily, that if vaping odors are offensive, then it is worse to do it outside as compared to inside, because of the wind factor.
So, this notion of don't vape where you can't (or wouldn't) smoke, and combined with 'common courtesy' has to absolutely apply to outdoor public places, or someone is being disingenuous. More likely, if you are okay with vaping outdoors in public, and harsh on people who vape indoors in public, then chances are you're just being hypocritical. Or perhaps, you simply think wind factor is a non issue and that if a non-smoking/non-vaping person gets a whiff of your (disgusting) scent, and dislikes the practice, that is on them entirely and not on you, for you had no intention of having that 'cloud' end up in their nostrils. But it did.
Furthermore, if you vape indoors in own space, but ever do so with windows down or outdoors on own property, and wind is at all a factor, then you done just went and violated 'common courtesy' and so, we are plausibly at a place where there are zero locations on planet earth where it is 100% okay to vape/smoke, without someone possibly having a 'cloud' end up in their face.
Won't anyone think of the childish adults?
Doubtful a study would prove anything substantial anyways, so many factors involved with creation of a child that it would be hard to pinpoint something on nicotine alone.
I agree with you 100%, but reading and comprehension are two entirely different things. I can try and teach my dog about convective heat transfer, but I doubt my efforts will produce any measurable results.
I'm not saying people can't learn, but it's not easy to explain to a layman that there's a difference between boiling something at 100C and 300C - especially if they are already convinced of the "truth".
To some people, fire is fire, and boiling is boiling.
Because, as we all know, the "childrun" have this unique capacity to stop breathing when they are sleeping !
And yes, I have started vaping six years ago, my daughter was eleven at the time, and yes, I never refrained from vaping around her. Because the proper, SCIENTIFIC studies we ALREADY had back then showed that SHV was NOT a real "heath danger". And assuming it's not, ALWAYS, is better than the hipocrisy of believing that vaping around your kids it's ONLY bad for them, when they are SEEING you.
Is you concern an health-related one? Or rather, the "negative example on kids" the ANTZ's like so much to talk about?
If it is health-related, you are not doing it well.
If it is the negative example, then it is up to YOU to explain to your kids that "vaping is baaaad" when there are people vaping nearby. These are YOUR kids. OTHER people are not enforced to give YOUR children what YOU perceive as "good examples".
Births are scheduled these days. Weights are significantly lowered by not developing longer than the scheduled gestational period.
We keep creating things we never developed to be exposed to. They're not allergies. They're our bodies rejecting constant attack. When the over processed milk or peanut is ingested, it's the straw that broke the camels back.
Through all this, every physical sport is seeing constant breaking of world records.
My brother, for example is on course to break the world record for strongest man to go pro as a power lifter some time within the next year.
So nobody's getting weaker. We're just exponentially ingesting more poison and less natural food at the hands of these "health agencies" by way of what they allow, what they endorse and how it's enforced.
Not to mention advancements in the medical field that have pinpointed, named and created treatment for half the world ailments in the last 2 decades.
Tapatyped
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We really need a *STANDING OVATION* button!!!
Everyone seems to have forgotten "it's not NICE to fool Mother Nature!"
Andria
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