Rayon wick, better flow, flavor, saturation and Nic Hit!

[garpt01]

I was an "early adopter" of this material in this thread. I have experimented with different attys, drippers, coils, ohms, and wattage. Although it likely has some benefits, bottom line is it DOES add a (usually) subtle "undertone" to my vape, I can describe only as a "metallic" type characteristic. The flavor itself is clean, but it is an off-putting characteristic for me. Anybody else experience this that can describe it better me?

 

[bakerb87]

just ordered some CC from Sally's. Lookin forward to trying it out! Been using "Organic Cotton" and CVS Sterile for over a year, will reply with my results

 

[vassilbg]

I made a new coil last night (5/64 drill bit), 10 wraps, 1.5ohm with 28g. Put it on the KFL horizontally but at an angle so each tail would be against the opposite side of each side of the lower deck.

I'm pretty sure I used too much CC because flavor is a tad muted and just not pulling as well. Vapor production has been lowered as well.

The purpose of this experiment was to see if using too much initially would serve a purpose with shrinkage after 24 hours, and the results are no go. So you CAN use too much haha

 

[doots]

It's been brought to my attention that were undergoing more attacks on rayon.. I will get into it later.. but let me say this -
Most of these attackers have no idea what thier talking about. Even so much in the dark that they think rayon is plastic. If you listen to anything they say that's no backed by a scientific source, it's nothing but misinformation.

I have provided real scientific data here. They have provided no scientific data. Doesn't matter what's been used to process it, it only matters what the product is when you receive it.

I would agree with your statement Jeremy. I have been using CC for a week now in all my Kayfuns, Rbas and have had no problems at all with burning or anything else. I am not saying that some people haven't had problems with it that are claiming to have, just that I have not had any allergic reactions that I know of.

It is good for the community to have feedback, but we should expect backlash from some people concerning Rayons use since the same thing happened, as I remember, when Cotton was first being used a year or more ago.. Some still claim that cotton is injuring people.. Probably Flavorings are doing more harm than everything.. Just my opinion. No science to back up the opinion. I know some flavorings don't agree we me and cause allergic type reactions the instant I try and vape them.

I would prefer CC over Silica any day, looking at it from a safety concern for my lungs.. Hopefully this stuff is ok.. I would say to others, use what makes you happy and if you are having an issue stop using it and go back to what you were using, For your safety.. It is good to have debate. However, I think some of it is just scare tactics that a few people like to use when something new hits the scene.. I will still use Cotton also ..

 

[JeremyR]

Thanks doots first page of this thread I stated that I expected a lot of backlash on this and people haven't disappointed in that respect.

I was fully prepared to debate this but so far no one has a single response or data showing rayon is dangerous. And yes the Sanjay Guptalata or what ever article has already been hashed out and there is no scientific data to support her statements. In regards to straight rayon. Now if dyes are not safe that doesn't apply we are not using a dyed garment to vape.

If you look at the page viewing/browsing stats there's just as many visitors/ guests as there are members looking at this thread. These are people from other forums other parts of the world and they are all looking at this thread. That's why many times I make blanket statements because I realize there is a large audience besides us.

 

[JeremyR]

I was an "early adopter" of this material in this thread. I have experimented with different attys, drippers, coils, ohms, and wattage. Although it likely has some benefits, bottom line is it DOES add a (usually) subtle "undertone" to my vape, I can describe only as a "metallic" type characteristic. The flavor itself is clean, but it is an off-putting characteristic for me. Anybody else experience this that can describe it better me?

Thank for trying it!

Not to be rude but There's no way the rayon has a metallic taste... It's the coil. The kanthal wire. Since there is no flavor from the rayon you taste things you wouldn't have noticed before. It's well know that kanthal or Nichrome coils do have a metallic taste to them. You hear more complaints about Nichrome tho because it can be pronounced enough to come through even over flavors. However I never noticed an issue with Nichrome, I actually always noticed a metal flavor from kanthal, possibly I have a low grade or something.

So yes it's so pure that if you are sensitive to the taste of kanthal you could notice it more. And anything that's there because youve eliminated the wick flavoring from the equation allowing all flavors to be detected.

There is nothing in the rayon that would cause a metal taste.. But your vaping off an iron kanthal wire.....?

No reason to blame rayon when you have it wrapped with iron. Don't you think?


Us your vaping out of a metallic device.. Really just goes to show how pure the rayon is.

 

[Aal_]

Jeremy is the burning VG proven thing? I have been vaping for 3 years. So what now we will discover after 3 years another carcinogen? That's worrying

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[JeremyR]

Sorry I only share all the information I have. I've seen mention of it but didnt dig too deep because there was no way I was vaping pg.. Vaping is still safer than smoking either way. They key with vg is not getting dry/ dryish hits then it doesn't produce the said carcinogens. Thats why I feel this is actually making my vape safer. And I'm coughing less now with rayon. And my lungs seem better than the last year and a half struggling with dry hitting crap.

even water, food, and personal care products have carcinogens. The burger from mcdonalds that I'm eating for lunch is loaded with carcinogens. I spent years in the carcinogen arena with the cpc. Cancer prevention coalition. So I know risk factors and I was all organic, avoid traditional personal care products as well as tap water. Carcinogens are combated by nutrition and vitamins. Vitamin c being very important in cancer prevention. I have developed natural cures for things like shingles. I cured a severe case of it in 3 days with natural methods. If anyone gets shingles I'll happily forward the cure your doctors will be amazed.

I have a very high knowledge in this area. Probably more so than anyone that will look at this thread for sure.
----

 

[Aal_]

Sorry I only share all the information I have. I've seen mention of it but did dig too deep because this is still safer than smoking. And even water good and more so personal care products have carcinogens. I spent years in the carcinogen arena with the cpc. Cancer prevention coalition. So I know risk factors and was all organic avoid traditional personal care products as well as tap water. I have a very high knowledge in this area. Probably more so than anyone that will look at this thread for sure.

This is for readers-

Don't think for a second that I'm stupid or unknowledgeable. I also had a top rated natural Heath and news blog on MySpace back in its hay day.

Name a product I will tell you what is bad or potential bad with it.. I could go on for 4 pages just about MILK.

you are our guide friend

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[xpen]

100%VG is fine with rayon, vaping on it right now. Probably you've packed the wick too much, judging on the huge 'shoulders' peeking out of the coil in your pic.

I had similar problems at the beginning, learning how to pack the wick density requires some trials with rayon.. Just a bit more than cotton worked for me.

Ok. I have been having trouble with my cc coil on my cyclone on a Reo...I've tried more, less, longer tail, shorter tail...is it normal to have to rewick everyday? I do use 100% vg. The flavor and vapor production is good. But I'd notice a decrease in flavor in a day and my wick looked like it's burned in the middle where the coil is...maybe there's a problem with my coil? 1ohm 28g 1.5mm. (...)

 

[JeremyR]

This is for readers with doubts- sorry feel like I have to constantly defend myself to the world. Since I hear what people in other forums are saying..

Don't think for a second that I'm stupid or unknowledgeable. Especially concerning carcinogens and harmful chemicals. You have no idea who your dealing with in that respect. I named my son after dr Samuel epstine founder of the cpc. If I find something that's a turn off I will stop using it and report the findings. So far after hours & hours of research I have not found anything off putting or more dangerous than anything else. The risk factor is not enough for me to be concerned.

I also had a top rated/ viewed natural Heath and news blog on MySpace back in its hay day.

Name a product I will tell you what is bad or potential bad with it.. I could go on for 4 pages just about MILK.

Go to or google NotMilk.com and be prepared, sit down for it..

I'm really not trying to brag here just saying I'm not some idiot.

 

[xpen]

Not sure I can describe it any better, but I know what you mean.. it's like when you use a new atomizer without boiling it clean first - that metallic undertone.

I think it's due to the way rayon interacts with eliquid: it does not absorb it, it just 'transports' it..

Thus eliquid availability for the coil to vaporize changes depending on many factors - IMO mainly atom temperature when it gets warm, making juice thinner - which in turn influence the quantity of eliquid being transported by rayon.

In other words, my idea is that we're tasting... some taste of the coil material itself!

Thicker juices (high VG, like in my case) should make this effect more pronounced, I believe.

I was an "early adopter" of this material in this thread. I have experimented with different attys, drippers, coils, ohms, and wattage. Although it likely has some benefits, bottom line is it DOES add a (usually) subtle "undertone" to my vape, I can describe only as a "metallic" type characteristic. The flavor itself is clean, but it is an off-putting characteristic for me. Anybody else experience this that can describe it better me?

 

[xpen]

Sounds like a great idea .. I'm going to try that too .. thanks for suggesting this.

Just be careful not to use acidic juices/flavors, they do not play well with tinfoil..

 

[garpt01]

Thank for trying it!

Not to be rude but There's no way the rayon has a metallic taste... It's the coil. The kanthal wire. Since there is no flavor from the rayon you taste things you wouldn't have noticed before. It's well know that kanthal or Nichrome coils do have a metallic taste to them. You hear more complaints about Nichrome tho because it can be pronounced enough to come through even over flavors. However I never noticed an issue with Nichrome, I actually always noticed a metal flavor from kanthal, possibly I have a low grade or something.

So yes it's so pure that if you are sensitive to the taste of kanthal you could notice it more. And anything that's there because youve eliminated the wick flavoring from the equation allowing all flavors to be detected.

There is nothing in the rayon that would cause a metal taste.. But your vaping off an iron kanthal wire.....?

No reason to blame rayon when you have it wrapped with iron. Don't you think?


Us your vaping out of a metallic device.. Really just goes to show how pure the rayon is.

Jeremy,
I knew the word "metallic" would get me in trouble. That's why I asked for someone who may have experienced it to give me a hopefully better description.
Let's put it this way, I've actually "vaped" coils before (Once I forgot to wick an atty and tasted a straight kanthal coil before the juice flooded my mouth.) It's not that.
Or, another way- and I've played with this stuff a lot- It's kind of like the reaction one gets if you accidentally get a piece of aluminum foil in your mouth, off a wrapper or something- that "tinny" taste/reaction, only not nearly as severe. I'm not a doctor or biologist (I just play one in my lab) but has anyone have any idea what I'm experienced or HAS anybody?

 

[Aal_]

Jeremy,
I knew the word "metallic" would get me in trouble. That's why I asked for someone who may have experienced it to give me a hopefully better description.
Let's put it this way, I've actually "vaped" coils before (Once I forgot to wick an atty and tasted a straight kanthal coil before the juice flooded my mouth.) It's not that.
Or, another way- and I've played with this stuff a lot- It's kind of like the reaction one gets if you accidentally get a piece of aluminum foil in your mouth, off a wrapper or something- that "tinny" taste/reaction, only not nearly as severe. I'm not a doctor or biologist (I just play one in my lab) but has anyone have any idea what I'm experienced or HAS anybody?

a gunky/charred coil would give this taste when dry, my experience anyway.

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[brianc11111]

a metallic taste comes from your coil....either your wicking too loose or too tight.
you taste coil when you dont have enough juice on it.
too loose or too tight.
its not a byproduct of rayon

 

[porkchop_express]

Weekend before last I went and got some Sally's CC. I rewicked several builds, in particular the cloud in my nano coil. Many thanks to Jeremy and some others for their help with that. This is my go to setup. I made this coil about two months ago and use it every day.


This is what it looked like after a day or two:



A week later this is what it looks like now:



After 9 days of regular usage at 30 watts, the rayon looks as good as day one and the coil has less buildup than would be expected. Normally I rewick once/wk just to dryburn and wash the coil. Otherwise small black particles of 'buildup' would accumulate in the cloud and the coil would be caked over. Using rayon appears to delay the need of rewicking. The cloud itself looks brand new and the coil has about two 'cotton-days' of build up.


Overall this is a fairly minor point, but I was impressed. Rewicking to keep the coil clean needs to be done less often. It is one more positive in favor of rayon.

 

[garpt01]

a gunky/charred coil would give this taste when dry, my experience anyway.

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Not that. I've tried a dozen (at least) configurations (as above) with different amounts, new coils, BF attys and drippers Thanks for the input though.

 

[porkchop_express]

After about a week of using rayon I developed a stout case 'bythegodsmythroathurts'. I drank more coffee, switched to vg, lowered wattage, and the sore throat is gone now.

That night my new rda came in and I went through 4 mls in less than two hours playing with builds on it. That probably had something to do with it. But I 'feel' that there's something about this CC which your body needs to adjust to. Be it the denser vape and thus nic hit, or some additives/contaminants picked up at the packaging phase, or who knows. I still like it over cotton.

 

[JeremyR]

Jeremy,
I knew the word "metallic" would get me in trouble. That's why I asked for someone who may have experienced it to give me a hopefully better description.
Let's put it this way, I've actually "vaped" coils before (Once I forgot to wick an atty and tasted a straight kanthal coil before the juice flooded my mouth.) It's not that.
Or, another way- and I've played with this stuff a lot- It's kind of like the reaction one gets if you accidentally get a piece of aluminum foil in your mouth, off a wrapper or something- that "tinny" taste/reaction, only not nearly as severe. I'm not a doctor or biologist (I just play one in my lab) but has anyone have any idea what I'm experienced or HAS anybody?

Hey didn't mean to get you in trouble actually I just got off work early today (5pm is early) so now I can focus on this.. Without blurting stuff out

Funny thing I made a non contact coil for the first time in a long time. Yesterday, And if I try to taste It I see what you mean.. For some reason I never noticed this on a full contact micro coil.. Something about the spaced coil really changed the flavor it seems. Not sure what the actual factor is yet for sure, I also packed it really tight. But I've done that before and I never had this change in the flavor.. with the non contact coil I'm getting a different flavor from the juice than I have in the past.

There is the sodium sulfate that is bonded in the finished cellulose rayon..
Cell OH + Na2So4
is what emerges from the final reaction. Then it's washed so maybe the sodium isn't fully washed off.

I think the flavor may be similar to an iodized salt? Do you Know what im talking about.. I've had salt before that tasted slightly metallic..

So I would say the sodium sulfate could be remaining. So possibly additional washing could remove the remaining salts.

The manufacturing process mentions final washing a to remove excess salts. So if it wasn't a thourogh washing there could be these salts still remaining.

I did post that in the past. And now I think we've got to the bottom of it.

Sodium sulfate is a neutral mineral salt. You can read up about it bro. sodium sulfate is generally regarded as non-toxic

Many people add saline solution to thier juice, maybe the salt content is another reason my lungs feel better