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[tchavei]

There is a slight break in phase but mostly psychological. Break in time come from nicads and nimh time. Lions and lipos hardly have one. They only live for 200 - 300 charges. Nimh and nicads live much longer but have a much worse power ratio.

1600 to 2500 is an insane difference. Even to 2100 (vtc4) that's way too much. A new battery should give out its power rating or really close (or above)

At what current are you discharging the Batts? Very high current (like 5 C) might show less amps than in reality and the opposite is also true. A very low discharge rate (500mah or less) will show a slightly higher total mah than reality.

Find torchy's site (battery tester and seller in the UK). He has tables showing battery capacity he actually measured at 1 and 2 amps discharge rate. There are hundreds of brands and models he tested. Go check the Sony series and you will have an idea how much one of those should give you.

There is also another scary possibility... They are used ones and they are dead. Check with a magnifying glass if you can see tiny welding marks on the tabs. That's no proof they aren't new but not many applications use 18650 Batts without having welds on them.

Just the trouble to rewrap Sony Batts... I think it's worse than that but simpler for the vendor.

Good luck.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my phone through a keyboard or something like that

 

[HolmanGT]

Will let you know tomorrow after my second cycle of testing.

AMD,

I don't remember how I stumbled on it and I don't remember the site name and the reason was due to the reviews.

I will say one thing nice about the site and that was they posted the reviews regardless of what they said.

Anyway they were VTC5s on sale but after reading the firs half dozen reviews I decided it was not for me. The reviews were all claiming that they thought they were used, old or knock-offs.

Now that you may reveal the site you got yours from I sure wish I could remember the name of the site I visited. When you do "The Reveal" I will check the site and see if it looks like the site I was visiting.

With so many Ni mods out there telling you to use VTC5s (which is an OEM product) it would not surprise me that someone is selling knock-offs or 3 and 4s as VTC5s.

 

[MikeE3]

Anyone know how long the current turnaround time is for rma dna40 boards sent into evolve right now, one of mine nerds to go back? ..thanks guys

Just a couple few days ago I got my replacements from Evolv. Total turn-around was less than 2 weeks from the day I mailed them back. Pretty dang good customer service, I thought.

 

[Lbox88]

Lithium's are supposed to be at their best on the very first charge but I still call bs on these high drain and high capacity batteries. Take my droid turbo for example, went through the battery like nothing the first 3-4 days killing it in 24 hours. After that though, it started to really shine. So I still give batteries at least that first 3-4 cycles to straighten out.

 

[HolmanGT]

Lithium's are supposed to be at their best on the very first charge but I still call bs on these high drain and high capacity batteries. Take my droid turbo for example, went through the battery like nothing the first 3-4 days killing it in 24 hours. After that though, it started to really shine. So I still give batteries at least that first 3-4 cycles to straighten out.

I have experienced the same thing with 26650 bats.

 

[cobalt327]

Thing is, there seems to be at least 900 mAh 'missing'. And we all realize there's no amount of break-in or seasoning that'll fix that. I don't think these are "worn out", I'm in the rewrapped camp myself.

 

[AMDTrucking]

There is a slight break in phase but mostly psychological. Break in time come from nicads and nimh time. Lions and lipos hardly have one. They only live for 200 - 300 charges. Nimh and nicads live much longer but have a much worse power ratio.

1600 to 2500 is an insane difference. Even to 2100 (vtc4) that's way too much. A new battery should give out its power rating or really close (or above)

At what current are you discharging the Batts? Very high current (like 5 C) might show less amps than in reality and the opposite is also true. A very low discharge rate (500mah or less) will show a slightly higher total mah than reality.

Find torchy's site (battery tester and seller in the UK). He has tables showing battery capacity he actually measured at 1 and 2 amps discharge rate. There are hundreds of brands and models he tested. Go check the Sony series and you will have an idea how much one of those should give you.

There is also another scary possibility... They are used ones and they are dead. Check with a magnifying glass if you can see tiny welding marks on the tabs. That's no proof they aren't new but not many applications use 18650 Batts without having welds on them.

Just the trouble to rewrap Sony Batts... I think it's worse than that but simpler for the vendor.

Good luck.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my phone through a keyboard or something like that

Test one is almost completed. I discharge them a 1A of current. As you can see from the picture below, they all are hovering around 1700 mAH.

The Amperage, not very scientific test, showed 23A at 67W. 0.12Ω load at 2.9V Using nothing but Ohm's law. Yes, I understand that the Mod and RDA have some resistance but, for the sake of this demonstration, let's disregard that. I did try several of my best Mechanical Mods and RDA's. The results were about the same.

In conclusion: My new US18650VTC5's are 1700 mAH and 23A pulse . Not very good numbers.

 

[AMDTrucking]

AMD,

I don't remember how I stumbled on it and I don't remember the site name and the reason was due to the reviews.

I will say one thing nice about the site and that was they posted the reviews regardless of what they said.

Anyway they were VTC5s on sale but after reading the firs half dozen reviews I decided it was not for me. The reviews were all claiming that they thought they were used, old or knock-offs.

Now that you may reveal the site you got yours from I sure wish I could remember the name of the site I visited. When you do "The Reveal" I will check the site and see if it looks like the site I was visiting.

With so many Ni mods out there telling you to use VTC5s (which is an OEM product) it would not surprise me that someone is selling knock-offs or 3 and 4s as VTC5s.

You are NOT going to believe that, but my best VTC4 I bought, were from FastTech. It takes forever to get them by sea, but the ones that are one year old, I tested still have 2100+ mAH in them.

 

[Tbev]

All my vtc3,4,5s. are over a year old and still going strong. . I never run anything over 0.4ohm. ..and I vape close to 20ml/day.

Bout ready to out that vendor. ..?

 

[HolmanGT]

You are NOT going to believe that, but my best VTC4 I bought, were from FastTech. It takes forever to get them by sea, but the ones that are one year old, I tested still have 2100+ mAH in them.

I believe "FastTech" is too big to gamble with a bad reputation.

 

[JimmyDB]

Yes, Lithium batteries have a break in period... during that time you will see the mAh rise after each cycle. Not only have I witnessed this with factory fresh brand new battery cells, but the manufacturer also confirmed this with me.

I am also interested to hear who the vendor is as I have seen a few different companies suddenly get more Sony batteries in stock.

I would have to pull up the datasheet, but their testing method should be listed, and if you test the same way... you should get the roughly the same results. You may notice greater capacity in a battery when it's used at higher current draw OR you may see less at that higher draw, depends on the battery model.

From what I see about that charger, it only has 2 test methods... 0.5A and 1.0A... which *could* lead to an issue if the battery works better at higher current draws (a high drain battery), but I wouldn't expect that large of a gap. It would make more sense to me that the discharge cycle was stopped early.

I was having trouble getting the charger manufacturer web site to load... at what point does the charger decide the discharge cycle is complete? 2.5V?

Obviously, it's not going to be a fun day if legit sellers have messed up and are selling bad batteries... either way, I hope they make it right.

 

[cobalt327]

*SNIP*

In conclusion: My new US18650VTC5's are 1700 mAH and 23A puls . Not very good numbers.

What are "puls" or is that a typo?

ETA liking your Foxnovo D4S charger. And a big thanks for the tip on making stable ribbon coils!

 

[atroph]

What are "puls" or is that a typo?

ETA liking your Foxnovo D4S charger. And a big thanks for the tip on making stable ribbon coils!

23A Pulse firing current is what I think AMD is implying. The VTC5 should be way above that.

I don't really rely on pulse current as that is a way to get in to trouble. Continuous current is what I'd recommend researching and IIRC the VTC5 is a 35A continuous current battery. So it may be that pulse and continuous current draw are inadvertently misused in his previous post.

 

[AMDTrucking]

Yes, Lithium batteries have a break in period... during that time you will see the mAh rise after each cycle. Not only have I witnessed this with factory fresh brand new battery cells, but the manufacturer also confirmed this with me.

I am also interested to hear who the vendor is as I have seen a few different companies suddenly get more Sony batteries in stock.

I would have to pull up the datasheet, but their testing method should be listed, and if you test the same way... you should get the roughly the same results. You may notice greater capacity in a battery when it's used at higher current draw OR you may see less at that higher draw, depends on the battery model.

From what I see about that charger, it only has 2 test methods... 0.5A and 1.0A... which *could* lead to an issue if the battery works better at higher current draws (a high drain battery), but I wouldn't expect that large of a gap. It would make more sense to me that the discharge cycle was stopped early.

I was having trouble getting the charger manufacturer web site to load... at what point does the charger decide the discharge cycle is complete? 2.5V?

Obviously, it's not going to be a fun day if legit sellers have messed up and are selling bad batteries... either way, I hope they make it right.

The Foxnovo D4S has 0.5A and 1.0A modes for both Charge and Discharge. I chose 1A. If set in "CAP" mode (capacity testing) it will first top the batteries charge to 4.21V, then Beep (very annoying) and then it starts Discharging at 1A of current. Takes a very long time. I would think 2600 mAh = 2.6A/hour = 2.6 hours of discharge time at 1A. But it's doing a lot of other "things" while running and it does take a long time. After it is done Discharging down to 2.5V it beeps again and displays final mAh of the battery. Then it charges the battery back up to 4.21V. And beeps again. I've got to take it apart and disconnect that buzzer. I ran that test on a bunch of different batteries. Fairly new and old ones of differed brands. All my test results were very realistic and consistent. Until these four brand-new VTC5.

Here are my old (and not so old) batteries Test results. I even wrote their real mAh on them to choose the right pair of batteries for Vapor Flask. You could easily spot the only two VTC5 that I have just by looking at their capacity. Those are real VTC5. As you can see the results are pretty realistic and my "Tester" is trustworthy.

 

[tchavei]

I found another thread comparing batteries with a 20A and 35A discharge test of the VTC5 (among others) here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...vtc5-lg-icr18650he2-samsung-inr18650-25r.html

Regards
Tony

 

[AMDTrucking]

The results of the second Battery Capacity test was a carbon copy of the first one. 1700 mAh

But the eBay seller, that I bought them from, contacted me first. Before I even had a chance to contact him.
Apparently, he was unaware of them being fake. When he learned that they are counterfeit, he pulled his eBay auction down. Now he is contacting everyone he already sold them to, offering a full refund and even letting us keep those batteries. I feel he is an honest person trying to right the wrong. That's why, I'm NOT going to reveal his identity. Sorry TBev

Maybe I'll put two of them in one of my Vapor Flasks, it'll be like having a single Panasonic battery 3400 mAh

 

[cindycated]

That's good news, AMD.
I heard eBay store sellers get kicked out when they get bad reviews, so yeah, they bend over backwards to appease if they wanna keep their store, and their fees go down when their ratings are high. But still, he probably is honest and sincere about not knowing. Most of the sellers I've dealt with have been.

 

[cindycated]

oops...

 

[awsum140]

Glad to hear the seller is standing behind their product and it's unfortunate that they were also scammed.

 

[readeuler]

Boo, I want more witch hunts!