Rayon wick, better flow, flavor, saturation and Nic Hit!

[TrollDragon]

Ok be advised I'm giving you pass on several puns I could throw at you based on that post!

Yes, that answer is ripe for the taking, wouldn't last a minute in the TP thread...

 

[TrollDragon]

Vacuum problem, maybe? Your coil might be too fat for that hole - with the 3.5mm hole, my coil is around 2-2.4mm. Or you could leave out the fill screw. That tank will loosen up in about a couple of weeks It is a bit of a PITA to build - I keep the nugget-reducer thingie off until I'm done, wicking and all, so that I'll have more room. Try a horizontal build with a U-wick - that's REALLY fun!

I guess the real problem is that I am expecting this to work exactly like the RDA just with a bigger reservoir and that doesn't seem to be the case. I put a 3mm coil in with fresh Rayon here at work and after a 4 second draw on the Dr. Fog Milk and Honey (Much Yum), I can detect that dry hit coming on if I were to draw any longer.

So I went tinkering with the wick some and ended up pulling half of it out which led to more frustration and yanking the rest of the Rayon out...

I cut a strip of Cotton Labo, poked it down through the coil into the tank with a pick tool I have here and so far so good, I can do 5 second pulls at 20W with out feeling the burnt hit coming on... The Japanese cotton will suffice for this tankful as I am not interested in a draining, disassemble and rebuild again today...

Good thing it's slow in the shop today.

I think I will try a horizontal single coil with a U wick in each hole just for Shat's and Giggles, it might just work for me.

Thanks again cinycated for all your suggestions!

 

[cindycated]

Ok be advised I'm giving you pass on several puns I could throw at you based on that post!

Whew! Thank you.

 

[cindycated]

I guess the real problem is that I am expecting this to work exactly like the RDA just with a bigger reservoir and that doesn't seem to be the case. I put a 3mm coil in with fresh Rayon here at work and after a 4 second draw on the Dr. Fog Milk and Honey (Much Yum), I can detect that dry hit coming on if I were to draw any longer.

So I went tinkering with the wick some and ended up pulling half of it out which led to more frustration and yanking the rest of the Rayon out...

I cut a strip of Cotton Labo, poked it down through the coil into the tank with a pick tool I have here and so far so good, I can do 5 second pulls at 20W with out feeling the burnt hit coming on... The Japanese cotton will suffice for this tankful as I am not interested in a draining, disassemble and rebuild again today...

Good thing it's slow in the shop today.

I think I will try a horizontal single coil with a U wick in each hole just for Shat's and Giggles, it might just work for me.

Thanks again cinycated for all your suggestions!

Could the wick be a little loose in the coil? That's the only time I ever get a burnt taste. Major custard fan too...yep, gonna die with a big ole smile on my face! If it's not feeding enough, try thinning the tail more, or tilting up for a second before you hit it (sorry, my mod is horizontal when I hit it, so I never remember to suggest that).

 

[TrollDragon]

It seems from all the videos I have watched that everyone's wick is smaller diameter than the deck hole and mine sort of fills it. I am going to try a 2.4mm coil over the 4.5mm hole and see how that works, as well as thinning the tail out. I really don't want to use it with the filler hole screw removed as I put the rig on its side sometimes.

Looking at the mesh builds online, is it even worth it to bother trying a mesh build instead of Rayon? And how many times do you have to tinker with one of those till you get it right?

Sorry to post all these Origenny questions in the Rayon thread.

 

[BigLungs]

It seems from all the videos I have watched that everyone's wick is smaller diameter than the deck hole and mine sort of fills it. I am going to try a 2.4mm coil over the 4.5mm hole and see how that works, as well as thinning the tail out. I really don't want to use it with the filler hole screw removed as I put the rig on its side sometimes.

Looking at the mesh builds online, is it even worth it to bother trying a mesh build instead of Rayon? And how many times do you have to tinker with one of those till you get it right?

Sorry to post all these Origenny questions in the Rayon thread.

Yes wick must be smaller than the deck hole, otherwise you will get a pressure lock and liquid won't flow.

Running it without another hole open(fill hole, breather hole) will most likely always result in a pressure lock as well.

With a genny, when you lay it on it's side, if liquid isn't flowing up the wick and trying to leak out then you most likely have a pressure lock and things won't work like they should.

 

[TrollDragon]

Yes wick must be smaller than the deck hole, otherwise you will get a pressure lock and liquid won't flow.

Running it without another hole open(fill hole, breather hole) will most likely always result in a pressure lock as well.

With a genny, when you lay it on it's side, if liquid isn't flowing up the wick and trying to leak out then you most likely have a pressure lock and things won't work like they should.

Thanks for the tips BigLungs!

The funny thing is my first build on this worked like a charm, filler hole was covered, wicked like I would anything else etc... The tank was full of Space Jam Andromeda and one can only vape Blueberries for so long.

I will work with smaller wick/coil combos first anf see how that goes.

 

[BigLungs]

Thanks for the tips BigLungs!

The funny thing is my first build on this worked like a charm, filler hole was covered, wicked like I would anything else etc... The tank was full of Space Jam Andromeda and one can only vape Blueberries for so long.

I will work with smaller wick/coil combos first anf see how that goes.

You're welcome.

Sometimes one gets lucky and a genny will run as you describe, but it's rare IMO.

In order for liquid to flow out of the tank properly, air must flow in to equalize the pressure. When the wick hole is filled too much and the fill hole blocked, it makes it much more difficult for air to get in. Sometimes impossible even once the wick is fully saturated.

I am just sharing my experiences with genesis atomizers in general FYI, not any specific one.

 

[tchavei]

Hi guys / gals

Food for thought:

I just built a titanium coil and I packed it full of rayon (tidi) until it was squeezing like a piglet lol.

Whenever I pack a coil that tight, it's 100% certain I will get that characteristic nutty rayon taste in the beginning. Depending on how tight I pulled in the wick, that taste can subside between 5 puffs up to half a tank (when I really overdo it).

Now the interesting part... This built hasn't given me a single puff of nutty taste. This should be impossible unless that nutty taste isn't coming from the rayon alone but through the combination of the coil's material and fresh rayon fibers. What puzzles me the most is that I used to get the taste regardless of using nickel or kanthal but I don't get it with titanium?

Here the wick I used:

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[PaulBHC]

It seems from all the videos I have watched that everyone's wick is smaller diameter than the deck hole and mine sort of fills it. I am going to try a 2.4mm coil over the 4.5mm hole and see how that works, as well as thinning the tail out. I really don't want to use it with the filler hole screw removed as I put the rig on its side sometimes.

Looking at the mesh builds online, is it even worth it to bother trying a mesh build instead of Rayon? And how many times do you have to tinker with one of those till you get it right?

Sorry to post all these Origenny questions in the Rayon thread.

I never lay my beer bottle on its side and I don't do that with my gennie either. My gennies work so well that it is a sacrifice I will make. And I tilt them as well. It gets tricky with a box mod trying to keep the air hole/wick on the down side since it is rare to have it line up where you want it when screwing it down.

 

[Dioxyde]

Just started my 2nd try with rayon using the evil eye rta (orchid style), this time I took the time to carefully trim the tails into points, and put some thin tails about halfway down the channels, still as tight as it will go in the actual coil itself. So far it's wicking great and tasting superb, but the leak test of laying it on its side all night is going to determine if rayon replaces ... cotton for my tanks or not, we shall see! It certainly does give a better flavor.

EDIT: The second after I posted this I started getting dry hits all the sudden lol... I fail at rayon, guess I gotta go back to what I know!

 

[Rossum]

Hi guys / gals

Food for thought:

I just built a titanium coil and I packed it full of rayon (tidi) until it was squeezing like a piglet lol.

Whenever I pack a coil that tight, it's 100% certain I will get that characteristic nutty rayon taste in the beginning. Depending on how tight I pulled in the wick, that taste can subside between 5 puffs up to half a tank (when I really overdo it).

Now the interesting part... This built hasn't given me a single puff of nutty taste. This should be impossible unless that nutty taste isn't coming from the rayon alone but through the combination of the coil's material and fresh rayon fibers. What puzzles me the most is that I used to get the taste regardless of using nickel or kanthal but I don't get it with titanium?

Hmm, I get a bit of that off-taste at the beginning no matter whether my coil is Kanatal or titanium.

Perhaps you just hit the Jeremy's elusive magic wick density at which it doesn't happen.

 

[TrollDragon]

I never lay my beer bottle on its side and I don't do that with my gennie either. My gennies work so well that it is a sacrifice I will make. And I tilt them as well. It gets tricky with a box mod trying to keep the air hole/wick on the down side since it is rare to have it line up where you want it when screwing it down.

Thanks PaulBHC!

I will keep that in mind, it's my first gennie so I have a lot to learn about them. Luckily my coil/air hole appears at the side of the IPV, so it isn't too awkward to use.

 

[JeremyR]

Hmm, I get a bit of that off-taste at the beginning no matter whether my coil is Kanatal or titanium.

Perhaps you just hit the Jeremy's elusive magic wick density at which it doesn't happen.

It is very possible...

But Its been elusive for me lately too because I keep switching rayons. Each is a little different.

 

[slavkov]

With the esg titanium wire i get the best experience. Much quicker ramp up and much quicker cooling of the coil.
But I'm lazy... Even for a simple coil change

 

[JeremyR]

Just started my 2nd try with rayon using the evil eye rta (orchid style), this time I took the time to carefully trim the tails into points, and put some thin tails about halfway down the channels, still as tight as it will go in the actual coil itself. So far it's wicking great and tasting superb, but the leak test of laying it on its side all night is going to determine if rayon replaces ... cotton for my tanks or not, we shall see! It certainly does give a better flavor.

EDIT: The second after I posted this I started getting dry hits all the sudden lol... I fail at rayon, guess I gotta go back to what I know!

How many watts what coils?

You have to inspect the build failure to see what the problem is... Like wick is loose in the coil, juice not wicking from the tank, ect. If its vapor locking the tank now remove a little more from the channels. If you take it step by step you can get it.. Sounds like the wick may not be as tight as you think.. The amount of tightness with rayon isn't even possible with cotton. Once you get more density you'll have more dense tails to hold the juice..

I'm just speculating, some pics would help if you want to get it working.

 

[TrollDragon]

Well the Origenny is going to sit for a wee bit till I can fabricate a fix for it. One must not summon the Power of Greyskull when tightening on a brass screw...

 

[SlickWilly]

Just started my 2nd try with rayon using the evil eye rta (orchid style), this time I took the time to carefully trim the tails into points, and put some thin tails about halfway down the channels, still as tight as it will go in the actual coil itself. So far it's wicking great and tasting superb, but the leak test of laying it on its side all night is going to determine if rayon replaces ... cotton for my tanks or not, we shall see! It certainly does give a better flavor.

EDIT: The second after I posted this I started getting dry hits all the sudden lol... I fail at rayon, guess I gotta go back to what I know!

How many watts what coils?

You have to inspect the build failure to see what the problem is... Like wick is loose in the coil, juice not wicking from the tank, ect. If its vapor locking the tank now remove a little more from the channels. If you take it step by step you can get it.. Sounds like the wick may not be as tight as you think.. The amount of tightness with rayon isn't even possible with cotton. Once you get more density you'll have more dense tails to hold the juice..

I'm just speculating, some pics would help if you want to get it working.

Dioxyde,

Please don't give up on rayon, it's a bit of a learning curve and sometimes takes a little time to get it working right but oh man is it worth it once you get it right and get the full flavor you've never tasted before! Listen to Jeremy, he knows the pit falls and he's right on the money when he says you need to inspect a failed wick to see what needs to be fixed. Take a few good closeup pics from different angels of a failed wicked before you touch it and post or link them here and you'll get good feedback on what to tweak.

I'm not familiar with your atty but with my fogger I had the same symptoms as you. I solved it by laying a very thin tail lightly on top of the channels, no wick IN the channels. I trim the tails down by 75% then pull the ends around to the channels and trim them into a fanned out curve to match the shape of the edge of the deck. They end up laying over the top of the channels so the tail is fanned out flat and the cut ends just at the edge of the deck where the chimney screws on. Final step was to wet them so they stick and gently guide them in place with a fine needle. They end up so it looks like the end of a paint brush when cutting an edge, not like this first pic, more like the 2nd pic but with the fibers in more of a curve. See how the ends of the brush are right at the wood trim? That's how the ends of the wick are right at the edge of the deck and match the curve of the deck. The juice comes up the channel, hits the ends of the wick and feed the coil, it take little wick to feed the coil and it does not flood!

 

[tchavei]

Hmm, I get a bit of that off-taste at the beginning no matter whether my coil is Kanatal or titanium.

Perhaps you just hit the Jeremy's elusive magic wick density at which it doesn't happen.

Maybe but it's really strange because in 7+ months of using rayon, this is an absolute first with this kind of density at least. The way I stuffed that coil, I was expecting getting the nutty taste for like 3 days lol.

It is very possible...

But Its been elusive for me lately too because I keep switching rayons. Each is a little different.

True, still surprising not noticing once that taste. Maybe it's like Rossum said... magic density

With the esg titanium wire i get the best experience. Much quicker ramp up and much quicker cooling of the coil.
But I'm lazy... Even for a simple coil change

ESG builds easier than grade 1 but it's not temperature capable so I only use it on atty's which shall be paired with regular VW. Although a little "mistery metal", it does vape fine in normal mode.

Tony

 

[devauto]

Okay, all I can say is HOLY COW! The difference in flavor with Rayon is incredible. Thanks to Rayon I now need to find some new juices, I didn't know how bad mine actually tasted ... LOL!

Seriously though, I really like it so far, although I have to work on getting the coil/wicking right. Like everything else with vaping, it is going to take a little experimenting before I find my sweet spot.

Something I did not realize though is that Rayon was going to just drink my juice dry. Seriously, I've been using ekowool for a couple years (yeah, I actually like ekowool over cotton), but it does NOT drink juice like Rayon. I'm filling my Russian 3 times a day now instead of 1, may have to switch back to ekowool so I can continue to afford juice!