FDA Re. Potential Flavor Ban

[zoiDman]

If all of the ingredients are already regulated by the FDA, it shouldn't be an issue for US vendors who make e-liquid with FDA, FEMA/GRAS approved ingredients.

But weren't these Flavorings used in e-liquids engineered and shown to be GRAS Only in foods?

Seems like there is a Difference if a Person Eats a Blueberry Flavored Bagel 9 Times a Year verse Vaporizing and then Inhaling the Flavoring on a Habitual Level.

Where does Dosage and Frequency come in? Let along Putting something into your Lungs verses Chewing it up and then Swallowing it.

 

[stevegmu]

But weren't these Flavorings used in e-liquids engineered and shown to be GRAS Only in foods?

Seems like there is a Difference if a Person Eats a Blueberry Flavored Bagel 9 Times a Year verse Vaporizing and then Inhaling the Flavoring on a Habitual Level.

Where does Dosage and Frequency come in? Let along Putting something into your Lungs verses Chewing it up and then Swallowing it.

True, but such studies would take years and years, so what is on the market now would remain until long term studies are completed- unless any evidence shows there is an immediate danger; they just wouldn't get approved by the FDA, but remain in approval process limbo...

 

[zoiDman]

True, but such studies would take years and years, so what is on the market now would remain until long term studies are completed- unless any evidence shows there is an immediate danger; they just wouldn't get approved by the FDA, but remain in approval process limbo...

What does the FDA Care if it takes Years or even Decades to do Studies?

And what would Stop the FDA from Stopping the Sale of Flavored e-Liquids? Wasn't it Noted that it Isn't the FDA Job to Prove that something is Unsafe? That it is the OEM/Seller's Job to Prove that their Product IS Safe?

Many people like Sen. Harkin would be Thrilled if Only Unflavored e-Liquids were FDA Approved. Then he could Gloat about the Only Kids like Flavors thing.

 

[stevegmu]

Doesn't matter if they care or not, nothing would be prohibited for sale during the approval process...

 

[Jman8]

Matter's to Who?

Is the FDA Effected by all this is the Impact Numbers are Off by 20%? If "Our Side" made the Report, I could see what you are Saying. But we Didn't.

I know your Mad because you think that the Impact Report should Somehow be "Accurate". I just don't think the People who Created the Report share your Same Level of Belief.

I don't think they care if it is Accurate or Not. And it may turn out that the Impact Report is an Underestimation.

I'm not mad. I know black market will result if they are wrong. I have very little issue with existence of black market and am taking into account what that sort of market will have on the children.

Their gross incompetence, if numbers are 'close to accurate' will show a history where they were irrelevant when it came to 'prevention' and that regulations actually made matters far worse.

Part of me wishes we would go in that direction to expose the fallacy of ANTZ logic rather than just speculate about it with words. Most of me wishes ANTZ would realize they are playing a very dangerous game with eCigs and that the more they push, the easier it will be for users to realize there is a grand deception at work and must be fought against. I also think the more ANTZ pushes on eCigs the more it opens up avenue whereby traditional smoking is no longer something that can be 'reasonably' despised.

 

[zoiDman]

Doesn't matter if they care or not, nothing would be prohibited for sale during the approval process...

Has the FDA made that statement with regards to e-Liquids? If so, do you have a Link to where they Did. I would like to read more about it.

Or is that just to Majority Consensus of the People who Post in these Threads?

 

[stevegmu]

Has the FDA made that statement with regards to e-Liquids? If so, do you have a Link to where they Did. I would like to read more about it.

Or is that just to Majority Consensus of the People who Post in these Threads?

I haven't seen anything saying they will be banned before approval, which leads me to believe they won't be.
Look at weight loss supplements. Short of anything having been found to be dangerous,most exist in the gray area of pending approval.

 

[zoiDman]

I haven't seen anything saying they will be banned before approval, which leads me to believe they won't be.
Look at weight loss supplements. Short of anything having been found to be dangerous,most exist in the gray area of pending approval.

To be Honest with you, I have Read VERY Little from the FDA Regarding e-Liquids Period. And that Scares me.

Because in this case, I think Less News is Bad News.

If this was the Same Old FDA and if e-Cigarettes Wasn't such a Hot Button, 4+ Billion/year Untaxed Product, or if some New Department in the FDA Hadn't recently been Formed to Deal Solely with Tobacco, then I might feel that things would Drag Out.

But this Isn't the Case. I think BT wants to Have Control of the Market ASAP. And I think the State and Feds want to Tax Yesterday.

Don't Bet on things Taking Years to Happen just because it did with some Other Product or Markets.

 

[Bobbilly]

$20 says she uses a ProVari behind closed doors...

She probably doesn't smoke

 

[stevegmu]

To be Honest with you, I have Read VERY Little from the FDA Regarding e-Liquids Period. And that Scares me.

Because in this case, I think Less News is Bad News.

If this was the Same Old FDA and if e-Cigarettes Wasn't such a Hot Button, 4+ Billion/year Untaxed Product, or if some New Department in the FDA Hadn't recently been Formed to Deal Solely with Tobacco, then I might feel that things would Drag Out.

But this Isn't the Case. I think BT wants to Have Control of the Market ASAP. And I think the State and Feds want to Tax Yesterday.

Don't Bet on things Taking Years to Happen just because it did with some Other Product or Markets.

That's just it; reading through the proposals, there isn't much. With government regulations, if it isn't listed, it doesn't happen. Short of ingredients listing, warning labels, safety caps, age restrictions, not a lot else is covered, save for concerns with flavors and appeal to children and potential dangers of chemicals in e-liquids, but the proposals also say there are less than in cigarettes.

The local and state levels are where virtually everything will happen...

 

[zoiDman]

That's just it; reading through the proposals, there isn't much. With government regulations, if it isn't listed, it doesn't happen. Short of ingredients listing, warning labels, safety caps, age restrictions, not a lot else is covered, save for concerns with flavors and appeal to children and potential dangers of chemicals in e-liquids, but the proposals also say there are less than in cigarettes.

The local and state levels are where virtually everything will happen...

I think you are Putting too much Faith in One Document which Mr. Zeller himself said was just a "Framework" of things to come.

By you own words, what I have Read from the FDA is a "Proposal". Just a Proposal. And is in No Way the Be All End All of what the FDA Can and Probably Will Do.

 

[stevegmu]

I think you are Putting too much Faith in One Document which Mr. Zeller himself said was just a "Framework" of things to come.

By you own words, what I have Read from the FDA is a "Proposal". Just a Proposal. And is in No Way the Be All End All of what the FDA Can and Probably Will Do.

I can only go with what is documented. Everything else is just wild speculation.

 

[zoiDman]

I can only go with what is documented. Everything else is just wild speculation.

If you take the word "Wild" out of you post, I think we would All Agree with your Statement.

 

[fortytoo27]

I think most likely what the FDA regs will do is create two different vaping markets.

One mainstream, regulated by the FDA, dominated by BT, and consisting of proprietary cigalikes and smaller tank systems.

The other, a grey market mostly limited to mechs, RBAs, and DIY supplies.

The biggest casualty might actually be the vaping community itself. Of course, this is all several years away from implementation-- who knows what the vaping landscape will look like by then.


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[aubergine]

snip

The local and state levels are where virtually everything will happen...

That's what I'm thinking. Hoping, anyway. Sometimes the Feds just collapse on an issue if states are pushing back. We're not doing so poorly at that level. Little battle by little battle.

Good argument for federalism.

 

[Kent C]

snip...

The local and state levels are where virtually everything will happen...

A good argument for state's rights - ie. anti-federalism

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

This quote from Zeller's interview with PBS news hour makes me think we don't have a clue what they are planning, this is merely for them to gain control, the foundation as he states.

MITCH ZELLER: Well, the senator is obviously entitled to his position.

What we have done today with this proposed rule is foundational. We can’t get to issues like advertising on television or what to do about the flavors in e-cigarettes until we have jurisdiction over them. And we can’t have jurisdiction over them until we complete this rule-making. This is a very important first step.

JUDY WOODRUFF: So are you saying this was as far as you could have gone right now?

MITCH ZELLER: This is as far as the regulatory science can take us.

Think of it as a foundational step that will enable to us address all the other aspects of e-cigarette sales, cigar sales, etcetera.

The only hook they have to gain control is tobacco sourced nicotine and if they control it and BG taxes it hard enough someone will find another plant that can supply enough at a reasonable price and put them back to ground zero.

I mean GM it into kudzu and Georgia and Alabama can grow enough to supply the world.

 

[zoiDman]

This quote from Zeller's interview with PBS news hour makes me think we don't have a clue what they are planning, this is merely for them to gain control, the foundation as he states.

...

Yeah... And to put Mr. Zeller's response in perspective, Judy Woodruff asked Mr. Zeller what he thought about Sen. Harkin making the statement that the FDA Wasn't Doing Enough about e-Cigarettes. And Sen. Harkin kinda blasting the FDA and e-Cigarettes in general.

---

It would be Nice if the FDA Only Controlled e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids in the Vague way that is Outlined in their Purposely. But I Just Don't Think that is Going to Happen.

 

[zoiDman]

BTW - Here is the piece the PBS Newshour ran on April 24th 2014

 

[Stosh]

Wow, he has amazing self control, he sat there with a straqight face and said...

"The FDA is a science based agency"

But only if the science agrees with their political outlook.....

BTW - Here is the piece the PBS Newshour ran on April 24th 2014