Refreezing Nicotine

[Waddle]

I have several bottles of nicotine (100mg/ml) that have been sitting in my freezer for quite a few months now.

Well my refrigerator has sort of died on me. It's still cool but not at a freezing temperature. Ice cubes have turned to water. And it doesn't look like I will be getting a new fridge for a few days....maybe a week.

Will there be any problem with re-freezing them (I know that PG/VG doesn't actually freeze) once I put them in the new freezer. They are tightly sealed and no air can enter.

But can temperature change cause degradation in the nicotine?

Regards!

 

[Mad Scientist]

Temperature cycling is bad because expansion and contraction will cycle tiny amounts of air into the bottles no matter how tightly sealed (else they would explode or implode). I think you're ok with refreezing (only one temp cycle). If it happened a lot over a long period of time, the many, many cycles would be a concern.

 

[Rossum]

Temperature cycling is bad because expansion and contraction will cycle tiny amounts of air into the bottles no matter how tightly sealed (else they would explode or implode). I think you're ok with refreezing (only one temp cycle). If it happened a lot over a long period of time, the many, many cycles would be a concern.

Huh? If something is truly sealed, there is no cycling of air in and out. There will be a pressure change, but this is unlikely to be enough to destroy the structural integrity of the vessel.

 

[mattiem]

I have several bottles of nicotine (100mg/ml) that have been sitting in my freezer for quite a few months now.

Well my refrigerator has sort of died on me. It's still cool but not at a freezing temperature. Ice cubes have turned to water. And it doesn't look like I will be getting a new fridge for a few days....maybe a week.

Will there be any problem with re-freezing them (I know that PG/VG doesn't actually freeze) once I put them in the new freezer. They are tightly sealed and no air can enter.

But can temperature change cause degradation in the nicotine?

Regards!

I think your nic will be fine as long as you continue to keep it fairly cool and in a dark place and it was sealed well to sart with. I feel sure mine would be if I found myself in your situation. Mine is in mostly blue and some amber glass bottles with poli-cone caps. Bottles filled up to within 1/4" from top of bottle. Bottles wrapped in aluminum foil. Then in bubble wrap and finally put in vacuum seal food saver bags to get as much air out as possible.

Air and light are what will cause degradation so if you keep that out you will be fine.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Huh? If something is truly sealed, there is no cycling of air in and out. There will be a pressure change, but this is unlikely to be enough to destroy the structural integrity of the vessel.

Unless it's an ampule, it's not truly sealed.

 

[Waddle]

Thanks to all! As long as there is no real degradation of taste I don't really mind a little loss in nicotine potency. I only vape around 2-3mg/ml anyway. It's still cool in my freezer, just not freezing.

 

[dannyv45]

I certainly enjoy the debate over sealed, not sealed, temperature change but what the OP is asking is will it be OK for a week or so until they get there new freezer. I will freeze and unfreeze my 120ml working NIC several times during it's working life which is usually 3 months. I have found no issues at all so for a week or so you will be fine so don't worry to much about it.

 

[Rossum]

Unless it's an ampule, it's not truly sealed.

OK, you've got me there. But a glass bottle with a quality cap should close enough for all practical purposes. We could quantify how well sealed it is by introducing a pressure difference (either positive or negative) against ambient air and measuring how long it takes to equalize. Would you care to speculate how what the half-life of a 100 mbar pressure difference is in such a bottle?

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Well for the freezing aspect if your nic is PG based the freezing point is around -70 F and in the -60 F range if VG based so it will not freeze in any home freezer anyway.
And if properly sealed the air cycling due to expansion will be so microscopic as to be nearly non-existent.
So no problem as I see it.

 

[dannyv45]

OK, you've got me there. But a glass bottle with a quality cap should close enough for all practical purposes. We could quantify how well sealed it is by introducing a pressure difference (either positive or negative) against ambient air and measuring how long it takes to equalize. Would you care to speculate how what the half-life of a 100 mbar pressure difference is in such a bottle?

As I'm not a scientist and do not understand mbar pressure or the science behind it. I can only give my practical common sense layman opinion. my practical experience has shown no significant difference in quality in the short term. This subject is an interesting subject and my comment to the OP is just meant to satisfy his question and not over complicate the answer.

 

[Rossum]

As I'm not a scientist and do not understand mbar pressure or the science behind it. I can only give my practical common sense layman opinion. my practical experience has shown no significant difference in quality in the short term. This subject is an interesting subject and my comment to the OP is just meant to satisfy his question and not over complicate the answer.

Agreed. My real issue with Mad Scientist's post was not that some minute (and probably insignificant) amount of air exchange would take place, because even a single molecule going in or out would qualify, but rather the assertion that "else they would explode or implode". Well, no... A glass bottle has the structural integrity to withstand more considerably more than a full atmosphere of pressure (~1000 mbar) of pressure difference.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Yep just do not fill your bottle totally full and you will have no worries about it exploding int the freezer. esp since your nic will not actually freeze.

 

[dannyv45]

Agreed. My real issue with Mad Scientist's post was not that some minute (and probably insignificant) amount of air exchange would take place, because even a single molecule going in or out would qualify, but rather the assertion that "else they would explode or implode". Well, no... A glass bottle has the structural integrity to withstand more considerably more than a full atmosphere of pressure (~1000 mbar) of pressure difference.

On that I totally agree. I've never had a bottle explode or implode. I've seen soft plastic implode (Sides cave in) but this does not happen with good quality glass bottles.

 

[Mad Scientist]

OK, you've got me there. But a glass bottle with a quality cap should close enough for all practical purposes. We could quantify how well sealed it is by introducing a pressure difference (either positive or negative) against ambient air and measuring how long it takes to equalize. Would you care to speculate how what the half-life of a 100 mbar pressure difference is in such a bottle?

That's good to know and I appreciate that. For me, a very rough estimate is that a liter of 100 mg/ml nic will last somewhere between 5 and 10 years. That's a long time to wait to see if the caps are actually as good as I hope they are. I was also very concerned about the bottles breaking. Sounds like I was overly pessimistic. I'll let everyone know within the next decade.

To answer your question, which is a good question: I don't know and neither do you.

 

[Rossum]

To answer your question, which is a good question: I don't know and neither do you.

No, I don't know exactly how long it would take, but it's not like mankind doesn't have experience with keeping stuff in bottles in long-term storage.

 

[Mad Scientist]

No, I don't know exactly how long it would take, but it's not like mankind doesn't have experience with keeping stuff in bottles in long-term storage.

"Mankind's" experience storing things long term in ordinary bottles with a cap of some sort is that the contents eventually spoils or goes stale because the bottles breath and a cap is never a perfect seal. I think that something we wanted to avoid, or what am I missing in your smart azz answer?

 

[puffon]

"Mankind's" experience storing things long term in ordinary bottles with a cap of some sort is that the contents eventually spoils or goes stale because the bottles breath and a cap is never a perfect seal. I think that something we wanted to avoid, or what am I missing in your smart azz answer?

What do you recommend for long term freezer storage?

 

[Mad Scientist]

What do you recommend for long term freezer storage?

Temperature stability.

 

[Rossum]

What do you recommend for long term freezer storage?

Glass bottles, quality caps, and if you're really in it for the long term, displace the air in the headspace of the bottle with an inert gas. Then put it in the freezer. But it isn't meat, it won't spoil if it comes back to room temperature for a few days because your freezer isn't working.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Nothing scientific, just personal experience and gut feeling. Dark bottles with poly cone caps are really air-tight and can store chemical nicely. No worries with temperature changes.