If they regulate e-cigs like cigars and pipe tobacco then we probably will be left alone, Wiz. If they decide to regulate them like cigarettes, then we may have some problems.
SE, NJoy vs FDA -- Discussion
- Thread starter rolygate
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
That's ok, Rosco, old habits are hard to break. I'm getting some "thank you, Julie" withdrawal symptoms, myself.
I got turned off earlier in the thread (questioning if the news was good or bad) because of this very thing. That one link had the FDA saying that they intend to "regulate ecigs like cigarettes." I find that choice of wording very suspect. Why did they not say "like tobacco products" instead?
Our House, if they regulate them as cigarettes, that could mean that internet sales would be banned, like cigarettes are. That would be very bad for us. I think that is going be a ways off, if it happens at all.
Reduced nicotine, no flavors, prefilled carts, and don't forget how it will trickle down to the State level and eventually become cigarette tax in the form of 2x-3x the current cost.
EDIT: regulating them as tobacco products (like they should be doing) will not carry those same restrictions.
The fight will really take a turn if they take to banning internet sales as then it will come down to components...as banning the sales of batteries & plastic cartridges can't be banned...
but it may be selling liquid or pre-filled carts on-line will be in trouble...
Although as Bill, Yvilla, and others have pointed out, the FDA is going to have a hard time pushing ridiculous regulations though without any evidence to back them up. *Pure speculation* What we are likely to see is some kind a regulation along the lines of Snus and other smokeless tobacco products...which most of us should be okay with.
I'm pretty sure Congress would have to amend the PACT Act to ban internet sales.
Someone will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong.
I believe you are right on that.....but.....laws are written on paper, not carved in stone.I'm pretty sure Congress would have to amend the PACT Act to ban internet sales.
Someone will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong.
Again I think that would only apply to the e-liquid itself and not to the devices.......Just the same all around bad news if you get your juice online(Like me)I'm pretty sure Congress would have to amend the PACT Act to ban internet sales.
Someone will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong.
Wiz!
Where else can we get e-juice ?? I don't see it being sold in stores or malls. Maybe in the future, but not now.
There are a couple of smoke shops in my area that sell juice.....None to my liking! I would probably have to drive to Tennesee twice a year and load up at Puresmoker!
I would have to think that 99% of us here order online. Not trying to spread any doom or gloom......Just anxious to see what regulations might apply here. Looks like it will be quite some time before we see any.
Wiz!I suspect that the number brick and mortar stores will start to increase rapidly now that the threat of a ban is over.
I know that if I was thinking of opening one, I would have waited until this day came.
And I know some liquor stores in my area were waiting as well.
Anyway, let's hope so!!
There are a couple of smoke shops in my area that sell juice.....None to my liking! I would probably have to drive to Tennesee twice a year and load up at Puresmoker!
I would have to think that 99% of us here order online. Not trying to spread any doom or gloom......Just anxious to see what regulations might apply here. Looks like it will be quite some time before we see any.
I don't know what I could do without ordering online except DIY mixing. Iv'e been watching for e-liquid everwhere I shop for a while now, but haven't seen anything anywhere. Sure hope that changes if it gets prohibited for online sales. And even then what about the nic?
DC2.............My sister(who vapes)is moving to San Diego in June. If you decide to open up shop let me know!I suspect that the number brick and mortar stores will start to increase rapidly now that the threat of a ban is over.
I know that if I was thinking of opening one, I would have waited until this day came.
And I know some liquor stores in my area were waiting as well.
Anyway, let's hope so!!
I think it's the Nic-Liquid that would be prohibited if so.......not the device. As Julie and a few other have already mentioned it should be awhile before anything really changes with online sales.
Wiz!- Apr 2, 2009
- 5,171
- 13,288
- 67
DC2 wrote:
Yes, only Congress can amend PACT, and that isn't going to happen any time in the near future.
Yes, only Congress can amend PACT, and that isn't going to happen any time in the near future.
Kristin, you are so right. I posted a link to the March BMJ blog on Tobacco Control which I found totally reprehensible. When you read it remember the author is not talking in terms of reducing the use of A PRODUCT. He is speaking of annihilating an entire INDUSTRY. These are not the thoughts of a sane person in my mind.
BMJ Group blogs: Tobacco Control Blog » 2011 » March » 13
They followed up in April with the blog entry "E-cigarettes arent a solution theyre part of the problem".
BMJ Group blogs: Tobacco Control Blog » Blog Archive » E-cigarettes aren
I'm with you and many of the responders to Dr Siegel's blog posts in questioning the sanity of many of these individuals. The antis have become so focused on their "mission" of WINNING, that no level of sensibility remains. They can only see what they perceive of the finish line and they don't plan to allow anything stand in the way of their complete control of everyone's "behavior". This is a very slippery slop indeed and this small victory can not be over estimated.
Yet it was a huge victory for the little guy IMHO.
That is true in respect to regulation but would not be so with legislation, such as the revision of the PACT Act to include E cigs or E liquid. This act has forced users of products such as Snus to completely alter what they can buy and the quantity they need to buy to make it economically feasible. This type of legislation makes ordering large quantities an economic necessity.
For those unaware of how PACT has changed the smokeless market, let me brief you. I'll use my tobacco product of choice, Snus, in the example since it is a very similar product. It comes in many different flavors, the market is relatively small today compared to mainstream tobacco products (cigarettes and traditional "chew" type tobacco), many of the vendors are outside the US and the brick and mortar distribution is almost non-existent if you understand that Swedish snus is a different product than BT's SNUS. In my mind it's like comparing E Cigs to, well, cigarettes.
Pre-PACT all you needed to do was go to one of the various snus web sites, select from the many products available and normally reviewed by snus users and buy a quantity that met your consumption and buying habit needs for the product. Very few would order just a can or two but a roll (10 cans) or three made economic sense. With USPS shipping and some savvy product selection you could get three or four rolls for around $100. For me and having a three roll order, that would translate to a supply that would last between 4 and 5 months. Not bad compared to (I'm almost embarrassed to admit) the $1200-$1500 I was spending on smokes in the same period.
Snus is different than cigarettes and a lot more like E liquid. You might have a favorite flavor, but normally a variety works best and taste is subject to change from day to day. Not at all like cigarettes where a person normally has "their" brand. I'll have four or five different cans open, carry a few portions from each and select one that meets my desire for the moment I wish to have one.
Along comes PACT. Only product that has been registered with the US may be legally sold and registration involves not only paying whatever fee is required, but full disclosure of product ingredients. This immediately reduced the availability of many of the product offerings since many of the manufacturers couldn't justify the expense due to their market share in the US or for other business issues. General brands from Swedish Match became the only real Swedish snus somewhat easy to find if you look real hard in some areas of the country (sort of like the expression "Poker is a hard way to make an easy living"). Now legal brand options are severely limited.
Next comes the economic issues. With PACT, all snus became more expensive almost overnight. Whether due to fees, increased paperwork, or just greed from manufacturers and distributors, the cost to consumers increased fairly quickly and dramatically. I'd estimate I'm paying between 10-20% more in product cost today than before the legislation and I live in a state that has no excise tax on smokeless.
For those living in states that the antis had a strong foothold or the state legislature just got greedy, you can incur as much as a 50% tax on mfg retail price. I'm not positive, but I think Wisc. is one of those heavy tax states. PACT attempts to force the collection and payment of these sin taxes. I don't know about you, but I consider the definition of sin taxes like this as the sin of theft by legislation.
Anyway, you can see the cost of product growing quickly in some areas of the country, but government wasn't through. PACT attacked distribution. No longer could you use USPS, such shipments were banned. Bye bye reasonable shipping, hello $30 and up minimum UPS shipments from off shore WITH ADULT SIGNATURE requirements. PACT not only made purchases inconvenient, but smallish orders economically unfeasible.
That should pretty much give you a wide brushed view of what could happen if vaping gets the cigarette/smokeless treatment rather than cigar/pipe tobacco treatment.
Be afraid/vigilant, be very afraid/vigilant of both regulation and legislation.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
