Seeing More Newbies going sub-ohm... Scary stuff.

[B1sh0p]

21 amps is exceptionally dangerous if the battery's CDR is 10. I view the AW IMR as a gold standard battery with regards to safety (safe battery chemistry, good QC, performs like the manufacturer's ratings say it will)-when it is used properly. An AW 18650 IMR has a CDR of 10, if it is used in an application where its current demand was 21 amps for continuous use, it will likely fail and vent. Should the emergency vent be located at the end of the cap for the tube mod. expansion could well prevent the vent from functioning. In that case, where the pressure has no viable vent, you have an real explosion hazard.

Are sub-ohm dangers exaggerated? Maybe they are, I grant you that. However, I would rather misrepresent the danger as too much than as too little. I concur with your point that eGo's are potentially just as dangerous (and fail more frequently) when abused, but does that change the responsibility we have as veterans to inform new users about sub-ohm dangers?

There are lots of very safe battery options out there. I am not sure that every user knows about them. I don't view my sub-ohm set up (in my hands) as significantly more dangerous than my ProVari...but I do view the use of these set ups by users with insufficient knowledge as a very real hazard. If I had to hand a device to a new user, do you agree I should hand them my ProVari with a 1.2 ohm coil and built-in protections instead of my Caravela and its unregulated dual coil sub-ohm rda?

Good thing vapers don't continuously discharge. Vapers pulse, which is defined as 30 second bursts.

I agree that education is key and said as much. I understand that people should err on the side of caution and I practice that. I typically draw no more than 8-10 amps with a battery that is capable of pulsing 60 amps. However, I don't believe in exaggerating the dangers and lying to people about the dangers. I question some posters motives in doing so.

 

[B1sh0p]

No one should blame the store. It's the people who want this stuff. The people want it, where are they going to get it? A store. So they want to do something ignorant and dangerous and they procure the stuff. They proceed to blow their chin off and most of their hand. So now it's the store's fault for selling it to them.

No, it's the idiot's fault for wanting to blow huge clouds. They didn't study up and now they're maimed. Darwin, where are you?

Sub-ohmers, this cloud thing, seriously. I'm so very, very glad you're a subset. I'm just sad that what you dally in is dangerous and rest assured there will be some ..... who is inspired by sub-ohmers to blow a huge cloud and instead what they're doing to blow is their face off.

Ya push the boundaries and limitations of the industry, great, awesome. But cloud-chasers and sub-ohmers need to grow the bleep up.

In one thread you complain about the "new ECF" and then say this garbage in another. Why are you threatened by a subset enjoying their preferred vape?

 

[Rocketpunk]

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Anyway, let them sub-ohm. Let them push the limits. I for one say go ahead and go as sub-ohm as you possibly can! Let fate dictate the survivors! Push it as hard as you can, man! Blow them clouds! Bigger! Bigger! What? Those clouds are lame, watch MINE!

.......

 

[B1sh0p]

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Anyway, let them sub-ohm. Let them push the limits. I for one say go ahead and go as sub-ohm as you possibly can! Let fate dictate the survivors! Push it as hard as you can, man! Blow them clouds! Bigger! Bigger! What? Those clouds are lame, watch MINE!

.......

Weren't we just talking about "adolescents?" I don't like your opinion so I'm going to ignore you and insult a whole segment of the community. Well done.

 

[Rocketpunk]

Don't forget the ability to make smoke rings and vape tornadoes. Since we all define cool as being the ability to do that.

 

[t2ak]

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Anyway, let them sub-ohm. Let them push the limits. I for one say go ahead and go as sub-ohm as you possibly can! Let fate dictate the survivors! Push it as hard as you can, man! Blow them clouds! Bigger! Bigger! What? Those clouds are lame, watch MINE!

.......

Thanks for generalizing every sub-ohm vaper in to a imaginary group. I have never got into a pissing competition over whose cloud is bigger. I could not care less. I sub-ohm because it is a hobby. It is no different then modifying a car or anything for that matter to make it suit you. Glad to know irrational generalizations of people still are alive and well.

 

[Xcighippy]

Weren't we just talking about "adolescents?" I don't like your opinion so I'm going to ignore you and insult a whole segment of the community. Well done.

Don't take rocketpuns's comments too seroiusly. I think he's still a little edgy from his shop getting raided by the FBI or was it the bomb squad or crooks. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ssion/536649-so-fbi-came-into-work-today.html

edit: sorry rocketpunk.. just couldn't resist..

 

[Ryedan]

Don't take rocketpuns's comments too seroiusly. I think he's still a little edgy from his shop getting raided by the FBI or was it the bomb squad or crooks. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ssion/536649-so-fbi-came-into-work-today.html

edit: sorry rocketpunk.. just couldn't resist..

LOL, Why is everyone so cranky today? Maybe it's the phase of the moon. I blame my crankiness today on the snow

 

[Xcighippy]

LOL, Why is everyone so cranky today? Maybe it's the phase of the moon. I blame my crankiness today on the snow

LOL I was just looking at that thread! I don't know.. Just saw a shot and had to take it i guess

 

[Glen Snyder]

There's no evidence of this. The evidence suggests ego batteries are far more dangerous than sub ohm set ups. Maybe we should warn people about egos and pass thru's.

Really? Seems to me that 100 % of the eGo venting stories to hit the news have happened when charging in a computer usb port OR with a cheapo car adapter. On the other hand while you don't see many stories in the news about batteries venting from a sub ohm setup there are plenty posted on FB and reddit MUCH more frequently than the ones in the news regarding stick batteries. Considering that sub ohmers are probably outnumbered 10,000 to 1 to the rest of vapers the odds are by astronomically higher for catastrophic battery failure from sub ohming. The same can be said for the dangers inherent to driving a car, taking a shower or eating a steak vs sub ohming.

That said, I have no issue with sub ohming, just pointing out the error made in the assumption. It was akin to, 'If most accidents happen withing 10 miles of the home, should you move 20 miles away?'

btw Yes, as an industry IMO sellers/vendors should be warning consumers by means of proper instruction for charging eGo stick batteries. How many brand new users have been told "Charge it in ANY usb port" when buying their first eGO setup? I know I was. Lowering the cost of an eGo stick setup by only providing a 50 cent (at wholesale) crappy charging cord isn't doing the user any favors. A suitable wall wort should be standard. If the cost to the user needs to be raised, so be it.

My

 

[Vwls]

I think it's like any other cool thing. Motorcycles, fast cars, hot women. Some people study and buy the best materials to prepare - some just leap in with no preparation and pay the consequences.

That's life, and all we can do as seasoned vapers who care about our community is continue to help by educating... and by being patient and informative.

But please don't
1) lump all sub-ohmers into a single group
2) come off angry when newbies are looking for information on sub-ohming

I promise you that giving the best information is a whole lot more effective in guiding sub-ohmers to observing proper protocols, than biting their heads off or making them feel like a--holes for even asking. This happened to me early on when I was looking for information. Luckily, I'm the kind of person who doesn't get upset easily (it takes a ridiculous amount of abuse to send me running for the hills), so I kept right at it till I found out what I needed to know. But I can see how some would read one angry, judgmental retort, and hightail it right out of here. Then probably buy the wrong crap, fail to acquire the knowledge, and who knows what.

I'd challenge all of us to accept that we have a unique opportunity here on ECF with the new folks who wander through. We have a chance to teach, to make them feel at home and welcome, to be a part of a momentous process in their lives - smoking cessation. I can't stress this enough - it's saving lives. Saving families. And yes, imparting information on sub-ohming is a part of what we do.

Sure there will be some who won't listen, but for every idiot who doesn't want to do any studying or calculating, or spend what's needed to get a safe set-up, there are going to be 10 who WILL hear, and will do it correctly. I'm one of the 10.

Rocket, you're super cool, and I have always liked you, so can't we bridge the worlds here and find a common ground? How about a place where people who sub-ohm safely join with others, and help all new vapers find their perfect, safest vape.

 

[t2ak]

I think it's like any other cool thing. Motorcycles, fast cars, hot women. Some people study and buy the best materials to prepare - some just leap in with no preparation and pay the consequences.

That's life, and all we can do as seasoned vapers who care about our community is continue to help by educating... and by being patient and informative.

But please don't
1) lump all sub-ohmers into a single group
2) come off angry when newbies are looking for information on sub-ohming

I promise you that giving the best information is a whole lot more effective in guiding sub-ohmers to observing proper protocols, than biting their heads off or making them feel like a--holes for even asking. This happened to me early on when I was looking for information. Luckily, I'm the kind of person who doesn't get upset easily (it takes a ridiculous amount of abuse to send me running for the hills), so I kept right at it till I found out what I needed to know. But I can see how some would read one angry, judgmental retort, and hightail it right out of here. Then probably buy the wrong crap, fail to acquire the knowledge, and who knows what.

I'd challenge all of us to accept that we have a unique opportunity here on ECF with the new folks who wander through. We have a chance to teach, to make them feel at home and welcome, to be a part of a momentous process in their lives - smoking cessation. I can't stress this enough - it's saving lives. Saving families. And yes, imparting information on sub-ohming is a part of what we do.

Sure there will be some who won't listen, but for every idiot who doesn't want to do any studying or calculating, or spend what's needed to get a safe set-up, there are going to be 10 who WILL hear, and will do it correctly. I'm one of the 10.

Rocket, you're super cool, and I have always liked you, so can't we bridge the worlds here and find a common ground? How about a place where people who sub-ohm safely join with others, and help all new vapers find their perfect, safest vape.

Very well said Vw.

 

[edyle]

I agree with not selling someone who knows nothing about vaping a .5 Ohm coil.

IMO you need some kind of understanding of Ohm law before you sub ohm or even before you start building your own coils.

To vape any coil safely (I personally would not go below .25Ohm) all you need is 2 things

1. Ohm meter (Check ohms and shorts)
2. The right battery

Would you care to define what is a short in ohms please?

 

[EddardinWinter]

Good thing vapers don't continuously discharge. Vapers pulse, which is defined as 30 second bursts.

I agree that education is key and said as much. I understand that people should err on the side of caution and I practice that. I typically draw no more than 8-10 amps with a battery that is capable of pulsing 60 amps. However, I don't believe in exaggerating the dangers and lying to people about the dangers. I question some posters motives in doing so.

Are you saying that the CDR rating for batteries can be ignored since we use PVs in short bursts? Am I understanding that is what you meant to post?


EDIT: If so, I strongly disagree with that sentiment. So does Baditude, Rolygate, and Technonut. In fact, here is a spreadsheet that correlates max and continuous drain rates to safe ohms. Do not ignore this important rating of your battery!

(Chart replaced with a superior one-thanks Vwls!)

 

[Glen Snyder]

Would you care to define what is a short in ohms please?

0Ω = dead short

 

[Zealous]

Disclaimer: I am speaking of SOME in a niche & not the whole group so don't try to say I'm talking about a whole group. I'm NOT & I've said so.

Here's the thing I don't really understand, and it's not something I don't understand about sub ohm vaping but rather something I don't understand about some in this vaping niche. Why is it so hard to see why people are concerned with new users getting into sub ohm vaping without seeming to understand the basics that will keep them safe.

Someone keeps saying (in this thread) that sub ohm vaping is this thing that's been hyped to be more dangerous than it actually is. But imo someone who vapes a coil with a low ohm build they didn't build & they didn't check the ohms on (because they don't even have an ohm reader &/or don't know how to use one) is being extremely dangerous. I just read a thread yesterday whey some guy was talking about a coil he was vaping on that his friend had built & just from the description of the build I could tell it was under .5 ohms yet he didn't know the ohms because he didn't bother to check them.

I just don't understand how some from the sub ohm niche don't understand why I (and others like me) WOULDN'T be concerned about this kind of thing. I don't need to understand the appeal of sub ohm vaping to understand that not knowing what you're doing when vaping builds with those low ohms is dangerous. And frankly I don't understand why people are so quick to jump on others who don't understand sub ohm vaping &/or express their concerns about it. You don't blink an eye at the guy who's asking where to buy a multimeter so he can find out if the .5 ohm build he's vaping on is really .5 or maybe .4 or .1, etc. P.S. can you please tell that guy how to use his multimeter once he gets it cuz he has no idea. WHY DOESN'T this concern you?

 

[edyle]

LOL, Why is everyone so cranky today? Maybe it's the phase of the moon. I blame my crankiness today on the snow

Maybe the title of the thread:
"Seeing More Newbies going sub-ohm... Scary stuff."
Is being misinterpreted the other way around like "sub-ohmers are newbies"

 

[brekec88]

The local vape shop will sell you anything you want, but also they can pull up what you have and explain why you have to get this or that. I had a couple of questions about rebuilding atomizers and they said that they are just getting into that and I should go to the internet and do my research and come back. A B&M that cares about their customers and safety is a welcome change!

+

i would expect a business not sell advanced equipment to an inexperienced vapor. If god forbid something did happen it could be all over for us and the business. wow that really hits a nerve man.

I would not expect a shop to sell any advanced equipment if they themselves can not explain how to properly use it. Its pretty much the case at most places around here though.

 

[element9633]

Disclaimer: I just read a thread yesterday whey some guy was talking about a coil he was vaping on that his friend had built & just from the description of the build I could tell it was under .5 ohms yet he didn't know the ohms because he didn't bother to check them.

P.S. can you please tell that guy how to use his multimeter once he gets it cuz he has no idea. WHY DOESN'T this concern you?

I believe you are referring to a thread I made two days ago. I did not in fact know the ohms of my coil, but I did know that it was sub ohm. I would not have been using this without checking my resistance, but I was using sony vtc4's which I know have a high amp draw, and knew I would be fine not only because the batteries, but because I was swapping them out every 20 minutes or so with a freshly charged battery. I do actually already have a multimeter, but I did not realize I could check my ohms by going from the bottom post and grounding to the side or surface of my atomizer. Not defending my actions, because your right, I should have known what my ohms were before using the coil, but I felt safe knowing I had high rated batteries that were not even being used more than 20 minutes without a fresh one replacing it. Maybe this just gave me a false sense of safety. BUT I see where you are coming from, your concerns,and the point you are making

edit: and just throwing this out there, I am not a "newbie". I have been involved and vaping for a year now, and I do know how to check if a build is safe for me to run with the batteries I am using.

 

[Ryedan]

I think it's like any other cool thing. Motorcycles, fast cars, hot women. Some people study and buy the best materials to prepare - some just leap in with no preparation and pay the consequences.

That's life, and all we can do as seasoned vapers who care about our community is continue to help by educating... and by being patient and informative.

But please don't
1) lump all sub-ohmers into a single group
2) come off angry when newbies are looking for information on sub-ohming

I promise you that giving the best information is a whole lot more effective in guiding sub-ohmers to observing proper protocols, than biting their heads off or making them feel like a--holes for even asking. This happened to me early on when I was looking for information. Luckily, I'm the kind of person who doesn't get upset easily (it takes a ridiculous amount of abuse to send me running for the hills), so I kept right at it till I found out what I needed to know. But I can see how some would read one angry, judgmental retort, and hightail it right out of here. Then probably buy the wrong crap, fail to acquire the knowledge, and who knows what.

I'd challenge all of us to accept that we have a unique opportunity here on ECF with the new folks who wander through. We have a chance to teach, to make them feel at home and welcome, to be a part of a momentous process in their lives - smoking cessation. I can't stress this enough - it's saving lives. Saving families. And yes, imparting information on sub-ohming is a part of what we do.

Sure there will be some who won't listen, but for every idiot who doesn't want to do any studying or calculating, or spend what's needed to get a safe set-up, there are going to be 10 who WILL hear, and will do it correctly. I'm one of the 10.

Rocket, you're super cool, and I have always liked you, so can't we bridge the worlds here and find a common ground? How about a place where people who sub-ohm safely join with others, and help all new vapers find their perfect, safest vape.

Excellent post Vwls