Selfmade "Big" Genisis Style Atomizer HowTo
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If it does become a problem could you put a coat of epoxy on the parts in contact with the juice?
It really is an engenius approach for not having a lathe.
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... i don`t know if epoxy is "PG-resistent" ... but i know that Polyamid- ( or Nylon- ) washers and tubes are ... and they may be flexible enough too for placed inside the Acryl-Tube where PG and Brass are in Contact.
Great, great tutorial for novices. +1
Seems, you are fooling us: some pictures show brass, and some of them show something like stainless steel
(joking, it's mostly flash )
Seems, you are fooling us: some pictures show brass, and some of them show something like stainless steel
(joking, it's mostly flash )...perhaps you will find a cheap battery-pen plating device for plating the brass with silver?
This is one of the next things i need: Plating Kit Gold_Silver. I can use for the mechanical switches, the battery connectors ...
I'm not going to get in to the argument of what material to use and what not to use...use whatever you want...but I would like to say that I have been using brass rods in my attys for almost two years now..and I have yet to see it change the color or flavor of the liquid. In fact...I have some that have been tossed aside that have been soaking just as long and they havent changed either. If my liquid/brass would start changing color or tasting bad... I would be more concerned about what is in the liquid that I'm vaping is causing this to happen...so far I know my nicotine, PG/VG and flavorings dont do it...but I mix my own too.
I would really like to see evidence of this other that one pic of one persons liquid...what liquid was it...what type of brass...what were the conditions...and so on. Then comes the issue with the possible lead content of the brass. The two rods I have in my atty have about 1/4 square inch total surface area....even with the total coverage of lead at 3-7% of that 1/4" we are talking a pinhead size on the surface...but its not even that since the lead is actually in little globules within the brass. Brewers have been using copper and brass for a long time...heres how they deal with it... Removing surface lead from brass
I would really like to see evidence of this other that one pic of one persons liquid...what liquid was it...what type of brass...what were the conditions...and so on. Then comes the issue with the possible lead content of the brass. The two rods I have in my atty have about 1/4 square inch total surface area....even with the total coverage of lead at 3-7% of that 1/4" we are talking a pinhead size on the surface...but its not even that since the lead is actually in little globules within the brass. Brewers have been using copper and brass for a long time...heres how they deal with it... Removing surface lead from brass
Thanks for that nico, very nice find. Got a soak going now.
Can you do pics of before and after? If possible....
I would really like to see this gold effect that they are referring to in Nico's link.
They don't do justice to reality, but here is a before (fairly dirty)-during-after shot:
And during:
The light is too poor already to take more. After 15+ minutes of soaking, they come out very clean, golden but milky. After rinsing with water and polishing a bit with rubbing alcohol, they are smooth but perhaps not as shiny. Only the places I polished before are shiny-ish, but not as.
And during:
The light is too poor already to take more. After 15+ minutes of soaking, they come out very clean, golden but milky. After rinsing with water and polishing a bit with rubbing alcohol, they are smooth but perhaps not as shiny. Only the places I polished before are shiny-ish, but not as.
Thanks for that nico, very nice find. Got a soak going now.
No problem asdaq...I though you were going to soak the brass in nic juice.lol Thats what I would really like to see done...especially liquids like Dekang and other pre-made juice. I have a feeling if anything would turn nic green it would be the unknown ingredient in that solvent tasting (IMO) Dekang...but thats my view of it. Yeah I knew about vinegar for cleaning brass... but I didnt know about adding hydrogen peroxide would take the lead off the surface. I would test it out but the only store bought stuff I have is from MFS and TW that I use in my mix sometimes...but I know they dont do anything. Like I said...if a juice is causing that to happen...seems to me it has to have something like an ammonia..chlorides...or acids in it...but I'm not a chemist so I dunno...just my theory.
I'm not trying to start a flame war with anyone...I would just like to see a more documented instances of it....like does it happen in an anaerobic state..in direct sunlight...stuff like that. Then if so maybe we can figure out how to prevent it..because brass is an excellent metal too work with on mods.
OT..kinda...Another thing I ran across was this article on passivation of SS....which is basically what people are trying to do when they heat and quench their SS mesh. How To Passivate Stainless Steel Parts : Modern Machine Shop
Again..IMO and from my experience working with metals for about 35 years...its not really "extra oxidation" that is keeping the ss wick from shorting out...its thickened and carbonized juice or PG/VG or even minerals from the water during quenching. I tried it both ways and didnt see much difference. The best way I found is to keep the coil loose around the ss...and fire the coil with juice in the wick and carefully adjust the coil slightly to where it wont short. After a tank of juice or so it does pretty good...I think thats why people have better luck when they dip it in juice to oxidize it instead of water. The surface of ss only oxidizes on a microscopic scale anyway....as soon as you even scratch ss it forms a chrome oxide film instantly stopping any further oxidation...thats why it doesnt rust...it creates an oxygen barrier...you can sit there and burn and dip it until it vaporizes and it wont build anymore than that thin layer...because in effect at that point your trying to oxidize oxidation..and in fact you may even deteriorate the properties of the chromium's ability to do so if you keep at it. I have read that there is a way to enhance the passivation process of ss by dipping it in a chemical bath of 10% nitric acid plus 2% hydrofluoric acid. I have the nitric acid but I need to get some hydrofluoric. I tested it with just nitric acid last night and I didnt see any noticable change in the resistance of the mesh at all...it did make it nice and bright though.
Buzz..it looks more of a flat yellowish gold color...not like a polished gold ring or something like that. But if its going around your juice...dont polish it afterwards or you will cut back in to the brass and expose any lead that may be there again.
Sorry OP...didnt mean to derail your thread.
On another note...if you have a solid form of what your making your plug out of...if you can spin it fairly fast you can cut grooves or o-rings and such by using a hacksaw and finishing up with a files and emery cloth while spinning it...same way you would do wood on a wood lathe.
Interesting you brought up soaking brass in juice...having a desire to build this and having read the misgivings of some re: brass and juice reactions...I was more than a little concerned, I like working with brass (and have mods made entirely out of brass). I'm also a juice diy'er so being a little freaked out I simply dropped brass shavings into a clear 1 dram glass bottle of my typical juice to replicate as much surface area contact as possible, I also did the same with the raw pg/nic I use...it's been over a week and nothing, no green, no odd smell, my little science experiment is on my workbench which is dark 16-17 hrs a day so that may be something...I haven't vaped it yet but...I wonder if it may be what's in the juice and not the brass. Brass is used a lot in plumbing fixtures in Canada and our heath and safety regulations are insane...saving ourselves from ourselves is what we do in Canada, we have a regulation for everything... I recognize not everyone does/can diy their own juice so this is by no means across the board conclusive but I have to wonder when folks vape juice originating out of a country where the gov. hands out facemasks to their own citizens so they don't choke on the pollution levels they permit in their own cities...kinda makes you think...
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The moral of the story is know your source. Most often the 'helpers' who post are noobs who are repeating anectdotal 'evidence' over and over, recomending things they have never tried etc.
Most of the folks I paid attention to are gone. There is also the new breed of expert that likes to talk in riddles and 'modders' who don't even own a multi-meter.
When Nicotime posts I pay attention.
The moral of the story is know your source. Most often the 'helpers' who post are noobs who are repeating anectdotal 'evidence' over and over, recomending things they have never tried etc.
Most of the folks I paid attention to are gone. There is also the new breed of expert that likes to talk in riddles and 'modders' who don't even own a multi-meter.
When Nicotime posts I pay attention.
I am glad that it seems to be ok to use. This mod is a genius use of your available resources. I only posted that brass bad thread out of concern for the op.
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Interesting you brought up soaking brass in juice...having a desire to build this and having read the misgivings of some re: brass and juice reactions...I was more than a little concerned, I like working with brass (and have mods made entirely out of brass). I'm also a juice diy'er so being a little freaked out I simply dropped brass shavings into a clear 1 dram glass bottle of my typical juice to replicate as much surface area contact as possible, I also did the same with the raw pg/nic I use...it's been over a week and nothing, no green, no odd smell, my little science experiment is on my workbench which is dark 16-17 hrs a day so that may be something...I haven't vaped it yet but...I wonder if it may be what's in the juice and not the brass. Brass is used a lot in plumbing fixtures in Canada and our heath and safety regulations are insane...saving ourselves from ourselves is what we do in Canada, we have a regulation for everything... I recognize not everyone does/can diy their own juice so this is by no means across the board conclusive but I have to wonder when folks vape juice originating out of a country where the gov. hands out facemasks to their own citizens so they don't choke on the pollution levels they permit in their own cities...kinda makes you think...
Interesting Quigs. Thats what I'm thinking also...something in the juice would have to cause that...and most of the suppliers wont say whats in their juice. But we are a strange creature...look at Phosphoric acid for example...if a guy came up to you with a bottle of dark liquid and said "hey drink this..it dissolves rust from metal"...would you drink it? Sure you would...after he shows you the Cola label. Or someone will go out of their way to avoid using something that has a .001 PPM lead content but will turn around jog near a main highway and suck in 100 cubic feet of smog..."to stay healthy"! Keep us updated on your experiment!!
Here is some good reading I came across if you want...but still limited as to the types of brass.
http://www.copperinfo.co.uk/publica...on-resistance-of-copper-and-copper-alloys.pdf
The moral of the story is know your source. Most often the 'helpers' who post are noobs who are repeating anectdotal 'evidence' over and over, recomending things they have never tried etc.
Most of the folks I paid attention to are gone. There is also the new breed of expert that likes to talk in riddles and 'modders' who don't even own a multi-meter.
When Nicotime posts I pay attention.
Exactly Willy...and even if its trustworthy take it all in and use a few brain cells to come up with your own conclusion.
I am definitely not an expert at anything..but I do know a little about a lot of nothing as I've been around the block a few times. If I would have been born earlier...I would have been the guy looking for the "edge of our flat earth" just to watch people fall over so I could verify if there was actually a bottom! LOL
Thats cool blue...I'm not trying to call anyone out or anything...nor am I saying anyone's a liar...its just I was taught to look at all the facts and circumstances...then panic if necessary! Sometimes I wish I had a picture of my whole 8th grade class taking turns sticking their fingers down in a huge beaker of mercury he kept wide open on his desk...can you imagine that now days!! Hey I turned out alright...right.....RIGHT!!!...ok...skip that question...next!!
nt sci and I were wondering about @Nico, how about these or these?
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Ok, It's been almost 2 weeks and here's "my" findings...and I do think "my" needs to be in quotes because there are sooo many variables here (I even spoke to one of my plumbing contractors who said there are different brass alloys, sometimes within the same fitting, i.e. the ferrule in a compression fitting may be a different alloy than the compression nuts), then there's flavouring reactions, colourant reactions, etc...I think the only constant may be USP PG and nicotine (even then, strength ratio's???)...
raw 35mg/ml PG nic...clear, smells a bit metallic (which I guess would be the case if you soaked brass shavings in anything for 2 weeks)
My juice which is 10mg/ml, 20% Lorann 1/3 peach, 1/3 banana, 1/3 watermelon, 30% VG...it tanned a bit, but it always does, but there is a slight green hue to it and again, smells a little metalic...
Is it the VG?, is it the flavouring?, is it the colourant? is it a combination?...then I'm forced to wonder, seeing as I vape about 5ml/day (never mind letting juice sit in there for 2 weeks, I mean come on, I give my Ody a bath every 3-4 days when I change the wick/coil) is this even an issue? I probably won't vape the greenish juice, it just looks a little unappetizing, but am I lighting my hair on fire and tossing out all my brass? no...
I almost feel like I should apologize for my complete lack of any real conclusive findings here but again with so many variables I'm not sure there ever will be a definitive conclusion, go with your own personal comfort level I guess, but I think maybe this constant regurgitation of "brass is bad" is on the verge of becoming mantra and I think it may be just a bit of a stretch.
raw 35mg/ml PG nic...clear, smells a bit metallic (which I guess would be the case if you soaked brass shavings in anything for 2 weeks)
My juice which is 10mg/ml, 20% Lorann 1/3 peach, 1/3 banana, 1/3 watermelon, 30% VG...it tanned a bit, but it always does, but there is a slight green hue to it and again, smells a little metalic...
Is it the VG?, is it the flavouring?, is it the colourant? is it a combination?...then I'm forced to wonder, seeing as I vape about 5ml/day (never mind letting juice sit in there for 2 weeks, I mean come on, I give my Ody a bath every 3-4 days when I change the wick/coil) is this even an issue? I probably won't vape the greenish juice, it just looks a little unappetizing, but am I lighting my hair on fire and tossing out all my brass? no...
I almost feel like I should apologize for my complete lack of any real conclusive findings here but again with so many variables I'm not sure there ever will be a definitive conclusion, go with your own personal comfort level I guess, but I think maybe this constant regurgitation of "brass is bad" is on the verge of becoming mantra and I think it may be just a bit of a stretch
.
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It is a little bit difficult for me to follow and understand exactly all the things here because my english is not the best...
But i noticed the discussion about the "bad brass" and want to tell you my experience:
I had build my first atty with brass parts about middle of december.
Since then the only things i have done :
Cleaning the brass with Acetic acid and hydrogen peroxide (2:1) for removing soldering residues
( now i have learned the brewers did for removing lead )
Throwed it into boiling water for about 10 Minutes after that
I Wash out with water every time before i fill in new juice.
I always use the "traditional mix base" 18mg/ml from flavourart, flavoured with virginia/burley/hazelnut.
No metallic taste, no green colour, no strange colour inside the atty...
As far as I know you need acetic acid in the ambient air round copper for the toxic "real" verdigris ... this is a reason why I dont use cheap "hardware store silicone" for sealing inside the atty!
The second Variant would be the "patina" that forms on copper-containing objects.
In this case mainly sulfur dioxide combined with water vapor plays a major role ... i dont want any in my atty ... and i believe there is no
But i agree with nicotime and Quigsworth: It may be a Mix of all components that will bring this result...
I hope I did not screw up here
But i noticed the discussion about the "bad brass" and want to tell you my experience:
I had build my first atty with brass parts about middle of december.
Since then the only things i have done :
Cleaning the brass with Acetic acid and hydrogen peroxide (2:1) for removing soldering residues
( now i have learned the brewers did for removing lead
)Throwed it into boiling water for about 10 Minutes after that
I Wash out with water every time before i fill in new juice.
I always use the "traditional mix base" 18mg/ml from flavourart, flavoured with virginia/burley/hazelnut.
No metallic taste, no green colour, no strange colour inside the atty...
As far as I know you need acetic acid in the ambient air round copper for the toxic "real" verdigris ... this is a reason why I dont use cheap "hardware store silicone" for sealing inside the atty!
The second Variant would be the "patina" that forms on copper-containing objects.
In this case mainly sulfur dioxide combined with water vapor plays a major role ... i dont want any in my atty ... and i believe there is no
But i agree with nicotime and Quigsworth: It may be a Mix of all components that will bring this result...
I hope I did not screw up here
As far as I know you need acetic acid in the ambient air round copper for the toxic "real" verdigris ... this is a reason why I dont use cheap "hardware store silicone" for sealing inside the atty!
The second Variant would be the "patina" that forms on copper-containing objects.
In this case mainly sulfur dioxide combined with water vapor plays a major role ... i dont want any in my atty ... and i believe there is no
To summarize a couple hours of interweb research, and this is just a personal, non-chemists logical progression...
Verdigris (the bluish green found on copper roofs and the statue of liberty) takes time to form, it requires prolonged undisturbed exposure to the elements. Brass and copper artisans usually use a ferric nitrate or an ammonium chloride solution to hasten the Patina process...it's interesting to note that the manufacturing process of "Carmine" (the red in a number of food colouring agents) uses ammonia to essentially create a salt...if there was ever a perfect storm for the poor brass to have to endure, lol..."I think" it would be a pretty reasonable postulation to lean towards colouring agents as being a strong candidate for causing the greenish hue...i.e. why the raw nic had no green tint but my day-glow coloured Lorann flavoured juice did (could I dance around making any conclusive statements more???
)...things that make you go hmmmm.reason #37 to use up my Lorann's and move on???
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