Serious warning! Deadly juice!

[UntamedRose]

What do ejuice venders have to do with this?
By the time a child is able to read, you really should be out of the danger zone of they read "juice" and just drink it.
Besides, with that thinking my "Mint chocolate chip" "blueberry" "caramel popcorn" and "cupcake" is far more hazardous then any silly word like "juice" Really rather not go down that road again.
Plus..actually looking at my bottles. I'm not finding one that says "juice" least in my supplies.


I thought we where talking about the personal usage of the word..."yaa I got some new juice!" "would you hand me the xyz juice" (talking to another adult of course, but around the kid)

 

[stretchpants]

I just checked all my bottles and not one company has the word juice on the label. My children are grown so I would have never thought about it. I think it's valid and I think we might want to think about using the term "Nicotine liquid".It couldn't hurt to do so and it might save a life.Thank you OP for bringing it up.

 

[Lab]

the juice thing is all it takes is a idiot to drink it.. even of legal age to buy it..

i have seen people get 100k plus for doing stupid things that everyone knows better than to do but they do it anyways..

since there is no warnings on any bottles that i have if i was to drink one and get very sick and go to court saying that i bought this juice with a good lawyer i would win.. now a simple warning label would prevent a supplier from ending up in court from someone that will play stupid for easy money..

the 100k was for sticking their finger in a hole in a paper compressor lost the tip of their finger for 100k

 

[StormFinch]

You are correct, you do have to watch what you read. Like that CDC document. If I'm reading it correctly, the data is for "inhalation toxicity" and not for oral ingestion of a Liquid Nicotine Mixture.

I am glad to see that no one seems to think a simple change of wording or labeling is a bad thing. Perhaps members can e-Mail their e-Liquid vendors and ask them if they would consider changing their wording.

Actually the whole thing reads; "Human data: The fatal human dose has been estimated to be about 50 to 60 mg [Lazutka et al. 1969]. [Note: An oral dose of 50 to 60 mg/kg is equivalent to a 70-kg worker being exposed to about 30 to 40 mg/m3 for 30 minutes, assuming a breathing rate of 50 liters per minute and 100% absorption.]" so I believe they are in fact speaking of an oral dose. The animal table listed before this is also all in oral dosages.

 

[Old Chemist]

Actually the whole thing reads; "Human data: The fatal human dose has been estimated to be about 50 to 60 mg [Lazutka et al. 1969]. [Note: An oral dose of 50 to 60 mg/kg is equivalent to a 70-kg worker being exposed to about 30 to 40 mg/m3 for 30 minutes, assuming a breathing rate of 50 liters per minute and 100% absorption.]" so I believe they are in fact speaking of an oral dose. The animal table listed before this is also all in oral dosages.

Well, well... let's stick to these numbers. We have a worker, 70 kg. Assume 50 mg/kg dose. This means that the man should take 50*70=3500 mg of nicotine, right?
Now we have air: 50 liters/min for 30 minutes, so 50*30=1500 liters=1,5 m3, right?
We have 40 mg/m3, then 1,5*40=60 mg of nicotine, right?

Let's compare those two values: 3500 and 60. Which one is valid then?

Now my interpretation.
We read (note) An oral dose of 50 to 60 mg/kg is equivalent to a 70-kg worker being exposed to about 30 to 40 mg/m3 for 30 minutes, assuming a breathing rate of 50 liters per minute and 100% absorption.
It should be (IMHO)
An oral dose of 50 to 60 mg is equivalent to a 70-kg worker being exposed to about 30 to 40 mg/m3 for 30 minutes, assuming a breathing rate of 50 liters per minute and 100% absorption.

Now the calculations are OK, and this means that the lethal dose is approx. 1 mg/kg.

My personal advice: don't trust, calculate.

 

[Old Chemist]

According to the EPA it's 40 to 60mg per kg; http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/nicotine_red.pdf

No, Ma'am - it's 40-60 mg. Not per kg, but per adult human being (page 11).
Namely:
"Nicotine is acutely toxic (Category I) by all routes of exposure (oral, dermal, and
inhalation). The LD50 of nicotine is 50 mg/kg for rats and 3 mg/kg for mice. A dose of
40–60 mg can be a lethal dosage for adult human beings and doses as low as 1-4 mg can
be associated with toxic effects in some individuals."

Hope it's much more clear now.

 

[dordas23]

I think this is hysterical overkill. If you want to keep stuff away from your kids and pets, then do so. Child-proof bottle caps are a major PITA, and I have to use pliers to rip them off. The terminology used amongst adults is irrelevant.

 

[Old Chemist]

The terminology used amongst adults is irrelevant.

May I ask - do you have kids?

 

[rainkeltoia]

Taking kids off the table, that terminology can cause electronic cigarettes and nicotine e liquid to be banned. Canada has already banned nicotine in e-liquid.

 

[dordas23]

May I ask - do you have kids?

No, I don't. Does this mean my opinion is invalid?

 

[DuncanDisordely]

Nope.. until you've had your prides and joys sticking their fingers into plug sockets and drinking bleach you're not allowed to speak...ever............EVER AGAIN!

Seriously, like a chinese vow of silence could be in order.....chi to you brother..

 

[davelog]

I've raised 2 kids to adulthood, and I think this is excessively PC. As mentioned upthread, I think the flavor naming (I even saw a Snozzberry out there) is probably much more an enticement to children than the word 'juice'.

 

[rob5482]

Sorru but I really have to disagree with this whole thing. It doesn't matter what we call it, ultimately it is up to the consumer or parent to educate their children not to touch it.

Have you ever seen novelty candies that say Vitamins on the bottle (meant for kids?) Or ever seen the candy cigarettes? or apple cider that comes in a champagne bottle? These are all marketed for kids to make them feel like their parents. Look mommy I am smoking just like you, or im taking my vitamins like yours. The list goes on and on.

It is up to us to teach our kids that just because we may call it juice it doesn't make it the same as theirs. Its the same as leaving a bottle of medication out and a child taking it because it looked like candy.

Yes I do have kids and yes they know not to touch daddy's cigarette or anything associated with it.

@Lab, I doubt any one that went to court would win based on your case. The oposing lawyers would rip them apart. I see it now, "So Mr so and so, you knew this was nicotine? And you know that Nicotine is harmfull? And yet you chose to drink a whole bottle of it anyway?" I really think they would be laughed out of court on that one. It would be like saying Yes judge I knew drinking gasoline could kill me but there was no warning on the pump at the gas station!

Sorry if you disagree but personally I am tired of being treated like I am a ..... with an IQ of 5. OMG we need to put "caution HOT" on a cup of coffee!!! REALLY!! It is becoming ridiculous really. Put a label on everything, ie don't point this gun at someone it may go off causing injury or death.

 

[JoeChemo]

First of all, juice or e-juice is slang. Slang is language peculiar to a particular group. In this case, vapers (more slang). Calling it liquid or e-liquid won't change the nicotine content. For those who feel the need, I suggest you call it fluid.

 

[DuncanDisordely]

Henceforth I shall call it "Wooodlepippadippadoodlewobbledobbledingdong"

Now that I have posted this here I am sure everyone will know exactly what I am referring to when I refer to my latest batch of wooodlepippadippadoodlewobbledobbledingdong.

 

[Uncle Willie]

Although our children are long grown and gone, I as well, must agree with other posters that stated it is the responsibility of the parent .. homes are filled with potentially lethal substances .. it is one of the jobs of the parent to make sure children are not easlily able to mis-use those substances ..

Any sort of labeling or what not, short of a child proof cap, is not going to fully prevent a child from injesting or whatever .. if you leave your stuff out in the open on the coffee table, no matter what that might be .. VP, juice, liquid (or whatever you want to call it) .. analog smokes, lighter, etc, knife, lemon furniture oil, burning candle .. you name it .. you then increase the risk of some sort of accident, period ..

Take responsibility, folks .. don't blame the vendors or expect Uncle Sam to step in .. safety begins at home ..

 

[stretchpants]

I don't disagree with parents should be responsible for their children and pets.Having said that, what would be the harm in changing the lingo? Liquid or fluid doesn't quite sound as appealing as the word juice to me.Maybe it would be less appealing to a child.It's just a word.Just juice to liquid.Easy.
By the way looking at my liquids Liberty Flights puts a warning on theirs.The same for Want2vape,and Gourmet vapor.

 

[Old Chemist]

May I ask - do you have kids?

No, I don't. Does this mean my opinion is invalid?

Partially, yes. Don't ask why. You'll understand after some years.

I thought we where talking about the personal usage of the word..."yaa I got some new juice!" "would you hand me the xyz juice" (talking to another adult of course, but around the kid)

That was exactly what I had in mind posting my thoughts.

Sorru but I really have to disagree with this whole thing. It doesn't matter what we call it, ultimately it is up to the consumer or parent to educate their children not to touch it.

If it doesn't matter then why you disagree with my idea of calling it liquid, e-liquid or e-fluid rather than juice?

Or ever seen the candy cigarettes?

Oh, that's interesting. Such candies are already banned in Poland.

Its the same as leaving a bottle of medication out and a child taking it because it looked like candy.

No - because nobody actually CALLS it candy.

Sorry if you disagree but personally I am tired of being treated like I am a ..... with an IQ of 5. OMG we need to put "caution HOT" on a cup of coffee!!! REALLY!! It is becoming ridiculous really. Put a label on everything, ie don't point this gun at someone it may go off causing injury or death.

Sorry, but you're going the wrong way, friend. It's not adults I am treating like (....), but the kids. Kids that DON'T read labels.

Any sort of labeling or what not, short of a child proof cap, is not going to fully prevent a child from injesting or whatever .. if you leave your stuff out in the open on the coffee table, no matter what that might be .. VP, juice, liquid (or whatever you want to call it) .. analog smokes, lighter, etc, knife, lemon furniture oil, burning candle .. you name it .. you then increase the risk of some sort of accident, period ..

I agree with you, but don't you think that calling e-liquid "juice" increases the risk, too?

Take responsibility, folks .. don't blame the vendors or expect Uncle Sam to step in .. safety begins at home ..

Ehem... who blamed vendors? Certainly not me - haven't seen a bottle labeled "juice".

 

[davelog]

I don't disagree with parents should be responsible for their children and pets.Having said that, what would be the harm in changing the lingo? Liquid or fluid doesn't quite sound as appealing as the word juice to me.Maybe it would be less appealing to a child.It's just a word.Just juice to liquid.Easy.
By the way looking at my liquids Liberty Flights puts a warning on theirs.The same for Want2vape,and Gourmet vapor.

The harm would come in forcing change for no good reason. You say it's just a word, no big deal - so is 'juice'. It's just a word. No big deal.

Change is not a bad thing. Change just for the sake of change is.

 

[boxhead]

Hey, good point, and from the start, if you look ataxy posti made, one time I used juice, and still put() the word e-liquid,
E- liquid say to me " take this seriously, don't be dumb with where it's at, how it's stored, AND what's it doing to me...