Serious warning! Deadly juice!

[DuncanDisordely]

Ok, apart from my insanities, I will post something more lucid and factual.

I have 5 kids and also grew up in a large family, from my experience kids will go for things that are put in their line of sight. When I say put in their line of sight I don't just mean literally, this can be through wordplay or especially with reverse psychology (in both directions) - if you tell a child "This is my very special important stuff and I need it so never never touch it" - you've planted a seed no matter what words you choose and most kids will be burning to find out what it is, what it feels like smells like tastes like. Yes some kids are mature enough to keep away but the majority (my experience) will be on it like a cat on cream.

The best solution I have for any of my stuff is to keep it well away from them, I don't speak about it, I don't leave it anywhere they can get to, and I don't allow them to be too close when I vape (preferable another room)

BUT... I do agree that juice is just tempting fate, this is a word to children that is synonymous with tasty juicey things in their life, if I made a batch of chocolate e-juice and told the kids about it, they would hunt the house for it for sure.

I don't think the word liquid will stop a child from drinking it, but I definitely think it will remove at least some of the temptation which as I've said before, is 90% of the battle.

 

[zoiDman]

What do ejuice venders have to do with this?
By the time a child is able to read, you really should be out of the danger zone of they read "Juice" and just drink it. ...

Did you ever read the Ray Bradbury book Fahrenheit 451?

In the book, Ray Bradbury lays out the idea that if you want to remove a concept from society, you merely remove the “word” from the vocabulary of the populous.

It is going to be Very difficult to get ever vaper in the world to read this post. Replacing the word “Juice” with the word “e-Liquid” on products and websites is a Much more effective way to change how people refer to the substance that they use in an e-Cigarette.

To answer another question you asked.

Thats what I mean...yall just posted a bunch of gibberish.

Toxicology refers to the level in the blood stream. The level in the bottle is not the level in the blood stream of someone who vapes or drinks the stuff.

Besides the math is 0o
0.5/22kg(40 pound kid) = 0.022727 Kay... Got 10 drops of 18ml's out of that how?


BTW I am not debating that we should not keep our nic juice out of the reach of kids.

A 40lbs child weighs approximately 18kg. And the ratio being used for the calculation was .5mg/1kg. That implies that for ever 1kg of body Mass it takes .5mg of Nicotine to be lethal.

So for our 40lbs child (18kg: 40 divided by 2.2), the math become .5mg X 18kg = 9mg for a lethal dose.

Using 20 drops per ml, there is .9mg of Nicotine in every drop of 18mg e-Juice. 9mg divided by .9 = 10 drops.

So using these numbers, it would take 10 drops of 18mg e-Liquid to be lethal to a 40lbs (18kg) child.

It doesn’t matter if you agree with the lethality threshold value or not. That is how the Math works. And this is how OC did his calculations.

______________

As to whether or not All this is Overkill?

To some it maybe. To others it is an Extremely important idea. But I ask everyone, What down side is there to changing some wording on a web site, e-Liquid bottle or common vernacular that we use when referring to a Nicotine mixture?

If doing a simple change like referring to some differently prevented ONE tragic accident, just One, wouldn’t it be worth it.

And if one person reads this post and the views posted here and thinks, “Perhaps as a parent am not doing Everything I can to safeguard my children, and any children that have access to my house.”, Isn’t that a Good thing also?

BTW - I believe that Child Proof caps should be Optional and left to the buyer of e-Liquid, as well as many other products.

 

[rob5482]

I don't disagree with calling e-juice as in your original post, what I disagree with is the whole idea that calling it anything is going to make a difference. You can call it what ever you like, point is kids will still try an mimic adults and it is up to said adults to educate them.

Ever have a child come up behind you while you are cleaning something, pick up said cleaner and get an eyeful because they were trying to mimic mommy or daddy? I have, is it the kids fault? is it the manufactures fault? is it the governments or maybe its gods fault? Hell no it was mine! I left it there I wasn't paying attention and I was to blame. Thank God it was a citrus based cleaner and did no real harm but I learned my lesson that day.

My point is no matter what we call the stuff, juice, liquid, nirvana in a bottle, could even call it bottled piss. A child will still try and mimic an adult.

The label comment was not meant for you OC. I haven't figured out multi quotes yet, but it was in response to another that said the labels should be changed or something like that.

 

[zoiDman]

The harm would come in forcing change for no good reason. You say it's just a word, no big deal - so is 'juice'. It's just a word. No big deal.

Change is not a bad thing. Change just for the sake of change is.

Not disagreeing with Change for Changes sake is a Bad Thing.

But in this case, what is the downside to replacing the word “Juice” with the word “e-Liquid”?

And I am not saying that Anyone should be Forced into changing anything. I’m a believer is Less Government than More Government. It seems that a voluntary approach is viable.

 

[shanagan]

No matter the resulting debate (lord, what won't be debated in this forum?) I think you've raised an excellent point, OldChemist.

Calling the liquid "juice" is not imperative to the survival of vaping, the word juice is not somehow sacrosanct in relation to vaping - it's just slang that's developed for goodness sake. And it's slang which makes these little good-smelling bottles of liquid sound like something else. So why all the "parenting begins at home!", "oh, for the children!" counter-pc-hand-wringing? Is it just to further prove how hipster/counter-culture vapers are? If not, what? We might also use "juice" as slang for electricity, but you'll probably notice we don't call cigarettes french fries, we don't call beer milk... so what the heck is the big deal in getting the word out that calling the liquid "juice" might not be the best/most responsible/safest (pick your debate point) portrayal of what's inside the bottle while still expecting parents to keep their own kids safe? What's with the either/or stance here?

I've also raised three kids - two to adulthood, one slightly younger - and will say that any parent knows that kids are smart, stupid and resourceful... all at exactly the wrong times.

 

[davelog]

Not disagreeing with Change for Changes sake is a Bad Thing.

But in this case, what is the downside to replacing the word “Juice” with the word “e-Liquid”?

And I am not saying that Anyone should be Forced into changing anything. I’m a believer is Less Government than More Government. It seems that a voluntary approach is viable.

What's the downside to leaving it as is? Burden of proof is on the agent of change, not the status quo.

 

[Old Chemist]

No matter the resulting debate (lord, what won't be debated in this forum?) I think you've raised an excellent point, OldChemist.

Thank you, ma'am.

And it's slang which makes these little good-smelling bottles of liquid sound like something else.

Couldn't agree more. One cannot tame the lion just by calling it "kitten". For example - drug vendors call coke "snow", not "death powder".

I've also raised three kids - two to adulthood, one slightly younger - and will say that any parent knows that kids are smart, stupid and resourceful... all at exactly the wrong times.

LOL - how true... how true.

 

[zoiDman]

What's the downside to leaving it as is? Burden of proof is on the agent of change, not the status quo.

The downside to the Status Quo? I guess there is none.

It Is going to So hard and So expensive for a us and vendors to change the word “Juice” to the word “e-Liquid”.

And besides, If some toddler chugs down a bottle of 36mg juice with a big Red Apple on it because he is Thirsty and his parents Always call it “juice”, I guess the world won’t stop turning.

Right?

 

[robert shohet]

i agree its a term ive used many times liquid sounds better and less appealing good call

 

[JoeChemo]

It Is going to So hard and So expensive for a us and vendors to change the word “Juice” to the word “e-Liquid”.

You've got your work cut out for you. Google "e-juice" and it returns: "About 145,000,000 results (0.10 seconds)"

 

[jayvolt]

WOW just WOW. You know I have yet to hear of a kid dying or even getting sick from any of our liquids. Bad parenting cannot be replaced with PC "you have to see it my way or its wrong" attitude. Sheltering children never works. Remember when they took candy cigarettes off the shelf to help keep kids from smoking? That didn't work either.

I might have been raised in a "different" household, but I was taught to live by the idea of houseproofing the child and not childproofing the house. The best way to protect a child is to teach, and when that fails do what every responsible parent is likely doing and lock it up.

 

[James Wall]

I have no children and I hate being asked to change who I am, what I say, or what I do for the sake of what other folks have chosen to do with their lives. It's just so politically correct. That being said, I've always called it liquid or e-liquid.

 

[Old Chemist]

Friends - I don't want to change the world. A bit too old for it, far too lazy. If someone insists on using the word "juice" - that's fine.
I just wanted to share my thoughts, my point of view. BTW, I am wondering why some think that the idea of crossing out the word juice from vapers' language sounds politically correct. I am far from being politically correct, but probably this has a very different meaning here in Poland and in the US.

 

[davelog]

Crossing words out of anyone's language is censorship, and doing it because someone somewhere might take offense or misunderstand intent makes it politically correct.

I understand your concern, but it's not lingo or labels at fault, it's parenting.

 

[Lab]

I am just saying suppliers using the word juice opens them up to be sued..

say if i where to order a bottle.. drink less than lethal dose... get very sick go to my (local doctor) aka the doctor my lawyer sends me too.... now i have been poisoned near death by some juice i bought online to quit smoking... yes it tasted horrid but so does robotusin and that only helps a cough..

goes to court i know nothing about e-cigs.. i was just told by a friend about how they quit smoking with this e-juice so i ordered some and tried drinking it to quit smoking.. no where on the bottle does it describe how to use it, that it is lethal, not to ingest orally, what to do if its accidentally ingested..

 

[davelog]

You know, the bottles are generally labeled with poison warnings. So are the websites where you order them from. I don't think you'd have a legal leg to stand on.

 

[jayvolt]

Frivolous lawsuits often do not make it to court these days. The legal system sees through "pay day" schemes.

 

[Lab]

2 out of 6 companies bottles that i have are labeled good enough that the bottle should of been enough warning. 3 of the 4 remaining say you must be 18 to use and that is it... this bottle of beer on the table says must be 21 with a bunch of other warnings on it..


and if you are believed to be dumb enough then it becomes a legit case not and is no longer thought of as a frivolous case

 

[CJsKee]

When I first joined ECF, most referred to it as e-liquid. I don't remember when, nor do I know why, everyone started calling it juice. I don't, as it just sounds wrong to me.

I agree that every parent is responsible for keeping their kids safe. HOWEVER, remember we are also dealing with the antis, the FDA, government and the various dismembered organ alphabet soup people; and when they come into the equation all rationale flies out the door.

 

[Old Chemist]

Crossing words out of anyone's language is censorship, and doing it because someone somewhere might take offense or misunderstand intent makes it politically correct.

Sigh... Friend - don't tell me what censorship is, please. I live in Poland. Over half of my life I spent under communism, so believe me, I KNOW what censorship is - in life, real life - not in theory. Therefore you don't need to explain such words like freedom of speech (and freedom n general) or censorship.
Suggesting a change of a certain word is NOT censorship. Please - go and read my OP once again - and point out the place I write something about someone taking offence. As for misunderstanding - yes, small kid may not understand the word "juice" correctly. And this has NOTHING to do with political correctness.

I understand your concern, but it's not lingo or labels at fault, it's parenting.

This is just your opinion. I hope I may disagree and you won't say that it's censorship, too. BTW - there's no word about labels in my post - did you really read it?