Shake, Stir, Heat, Vibrate or let it sit?

[psycheval]

I like the math. That's the best part of doing CFD analyses or circuit design.
I question what is reasonable.

The top one makes my head hurt thinking about it. I hate algebra. Always. Physics never bothered me that much because it is relative to the physical(DUh), I understand things from a physical standpoint not with math included. My physics experience is related to ballistics. No more on that in open forum. I'd just as soon no more period on that. The bottom one is basically my point. What is reasonable? If there aren't any gains here are there any at all(outside of common discussion)?
And are there any more principles that need to be looked at along with what's posted.
I'm not after a hold my hand instruction. I just need a little point in the direction I need to look. I figure maybe some others might have use of it.
I will take my nap and go away I believe if I can get that or confirmation that what I have is enough or all.

 

[psycheval]

BTW - Does Oxygen play any role in "Steeping"?

Wasn't pawning you off either man. Air and O2 affect it. All I have are my own observations on that. I haven't been there yet. That comes later. Can't get too many irons in the fire or I'll loose track of who did what when. That is the oxidizing somebody referenced to earlier.

 

[zoiDman]

...

And are there any more principles that need to be looked at along with what's posted.
I'm not after a hold my hand instruction. I just need a little point in the direction I need to look. ...

Sure... Here is a Big One.

Le Chatelier's Principle

Le Chatelier's principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[zoiDman]

Wasn't pawning you off either man. Air and O2 affect it. All I have are my own observations on that. I haven't been there yet. That comes later. Can't get too many irons in the fire or I'll loose track of who did what when. That is the oxidizing somebody referenced to earlier.

No problem and I wasn't thinking that you were.

But there are just So Few things that occur in the Real World where there is Only One Cause having One Effect.

You Mentioned Ballistics. How many Factors/Forces can a Person List that Effects a Moving Body going from Point A to Point B?

1?

A Couple?

Many?

A Boat Load?

 

[psycheval]

Uh.. Terminal Ballistics. You with me now? Not in open forum. I have a working knowledge of it. Think Feb. 1991. DAV. No more on this please. Not out here.

 

[psycheval]

Sure... Here is a Big One.

Le Chatelier's Principle

Le Chatelier's principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You finding that is where I'm going with this thread. You start looking at this stuff and it can have a shotgun effect on your where it leads you. It gets wider. I made the mistake of putting my usual speed read on some of it and got myself confused. Just regrouped and started over.

 

[zoiDman]

You finding that is where I'm going with this thread. You start looking at this stuff and it can have a shotgun effect on your where it leads you. It gets wider. I made the mistake of putting my usual speed read on some of it and got myself confused. Just regrouped and started over.

At the Core of Every Discipline there are some Fundamental Principles. For say Electro-Magnetism there are Maxwell’s Equations. For Chemistry there is Le Chatelier's Principle. For Motion, Newton’s Laws apply in all but a Few Situations.

And Overarching All Disciplines you see that Concepts like the Conservation of Energy.

You don’t have to be Able to do the Math involved to Prove this. Few can. But having a Basic Wikipedia Understanding of the Concepts and Laws will give you a ways to see how Things Work.

 

[psycheval]

At the Core of Every Discipline there are some Fundamental Principles. For say Electro-Magnetism there are Maxwell’s Equations. For Chemistry there is Le Chatelier's Principle. For Motion, Newton’s Laws apply in all but a Few Situations.

And Overarching All Disciplines you see that Concepts like the Conservation of Energy.

You don’t have to be Able to do the Math involved to Prove this. Few can. But having a Basic Wikipedia Understanding of the Concepts and Laws will give you a ways to see how Things Work.

That is exactly the line I'm on with this. I feel I can understand it. May not can. Only one way to find out.

 

[zoiDman]

Uh.. Terminal Ballistics. You with me now? Not in open forum. I have a working knowledge of it. Think Feb. 1991. DAV. No more on this please. Not out here.

Refresh my Memory. What happened in February of 1991?

Or PM me if you don't want to Post it.

 

[psycheval]

Little incident in the Persian Gulf.

 

[psycheval]

PM past that if you got to have more. It has no place out here. Is neither here nor there for this format. I don't put much out on an international forum of this. Hair standing up on the back of my neck now.

 

[zoiDman]

Little incident in the Persian Gulf.

Gotch... I believe I know the Event you are referring to.

All I was saying is that there are Many Factors/Forces that govern how a Projectile moves near the Surface of the Earth. Many.

Whereas "Steeping" might not have as many, I still fell there is More than One thing going on. Some of them maybe be Very Subtle to the Average Observer.

 

[psycheval]

Gotch... I believe I know the Event you are referring to.

All I was saying is that there are Many Factors/Forces that govern how a Projectile moves near the Surface of the Earth. Many.

I whereas "Steeping" might not have as many, I still fell there is More than One thing going on. Some of them maybe be Very Subtle to the Average Observer.

Therein lies my dilemma. I can see them. I recognize it as different almost immediately. I have very high observational skills. I have to understand what those things are. I see things I have no "name" for. I need the "name". Along with those observational skills goes the ability I have to "troubleshoot". Which is what I spent the majority of my adult life doing. I have done it for too many years to not know that not everyone possesses either of those abilities. I tell this to help better understand my background. It's hard to do that with people that you don't know and don't know you. It just takes time.

 

[soreviv]

Don't know why I feel like I'm reading a monologue from the BIG BANG THEORY

 

[Hoosier]

Well then we should cover the one technique that you haven't included. Seed Steeping.

Simply it is taking 1ml of a well steeped juice and making a batch with it in the bottle. Cap and shake.

I have one recipe that takes at least 2 weeks of steeping to taste great, at least 1 week to taste good, and tastes like nasty crap when first mixed. (I only have one recipe that tastes like nasty crap when freshly mixed and this is the one.) It has been part of my daily rotation for a few months, but I sometimes forget to make a batch far enough ahead, so when I read about seed steeping, I thought it was worth a shot. Did the seed steep (the steep part of the name makes it kinda' confusing as there is no real waiting time) and that recipe was good right off the bat.

Since this is the only recipe in my current rotation that needs steeping, it is the only one I have tried this on. When I do go and mix up some of those recipes that benefit from steeping, I'm going to try it again to see if shaves a week off of everything.

This has to have something to do with flavoring interactions as there is not enough time for entropy to occur.

And that is the reason that observation and trying new things is so dang important. We are dealing with full diffusion, flavoring interaction, flavoring and nicotine interaction, flavoring and PG/VG interaction. It seems reasonable that we can speed all these up with heat, but heat also can have an adverse impact on nicotine and flavoring. It seems reasonable that we can speed some of them up with agitation. It doesn't seem reasonable that speed steeping would have that much of an impact, but it works, so there is something else going on that I haven't been able to qualify.

And all this is ignoring what happens when we breathe juice...

 

[psycheval]

Well then we should cover the one technique that you haven't included. Seed Steeping.

Simply it is taking 1ml of a well steeped juice and making a batch with it in the bottle. Cap and shake.

I have one recipe that takes at least 2 weeks of steeping to taste great, at least 1 week to taste good, and tastes like nasty crap when first mixed. (I only have one recipe that tastes like nasty crap when freshly mixed and this is the one.) It has been part of my daily rotation for a few months, but I sometimes forget to make a batch far enough ahead, so when I read about seed steeping, I thought it was worth a shot. Did the seed steep (the steep part of the name makes it kinda' confusing as there is no real waiting time) and that recipe was good right off the bat.

Since this is the only recipe in my current rotation that needs steeping, it is the only one I have tried this on. When I do go and mix up some of those recipes that benefit from steeping, I'm going to try it again to see if shaves a week off of everything.

This has to have something to do with flavoring interactions as there is not enough time for entropy to occur.

And that is the reason that observation and trying new things is so dang important. We are dealing with full diffusion, flavoring interaction, flavoring and nicotine interaction, flavoring and PG/VG interaction. It seems reasonable that we can speed all these up with heat, but heat also can have an adverse impact on nicotine and flavoring. It seems reasonable that we can speed some of them up with agitation. It doesn't seem reasonable that speed steeping would have that much of an impact, but it works, so there is something else going on that I haven't been able to qualify.

And all this is ignoring what happens when we breathe juice...

Now do ya'll see what happens when you wake him up!!! That just cured most of my issues right there. I am basically doing a seed steep. I cut my flavors that are PG base with the same amount (as what comes in the bottle originally) of VG and that gets to sit around till I need it. The "work" is already done correct?
I am vibrating the crap out of my mixes. And.. the cut flavoring it self. I use heavy tobacco in my blends. I use chocolate and coffee. Caramel. I'm using dark deep stuff. But to get to it you have to steep in some form or other. And oxidation. Depending on the blend I'm getting oxidation that works for me in 15-60 minutes roughly after a say 3-4 hr shake. I do not store my juice so I do not top off a bottle. I typically leave at least 5ml of space open in a bottle. So some oxidation is in effect the whole process. I am not getting it any other way. I have reached the point that my blends do not seperate after I finish the steeping process. I suspect I am at the point of diminishing returns on anything else. Whole bunch of stuff happening in a bottle at one time.
I had no way of knowing that till now. I'm just looking at all this with a fresh set of eyes that is interested in understanding what it is exactly I'm doing. Thanks much Hoosier. You da man. And anybody else that got a little out of this or added a little more to my knowledge.

 

[Hoosier]

Thanks much Hoosier...

You're welcome. I still don't really understand what I did to help, but if you do, that's good enough for me.

 

[buffaloguy]

Hoosier, so you know... seed steeping does work for all juices I have tried. I regularly refill the same recipe in the same bottle once or twice before I finally get them empty for a wash.

However, I will say still that shaking/vibrating only does so much. Heating and shaking now and then during that process develops the best results. You dont need an ultrasonic cleaner or a shaking table either to do it... just your own two hands.

 

[psycheval]

You're welcome. I still don't really understand what I did to help, but if you do, that's good enough for me.

Validation? Confirmation? I'm not running off on a track that's unnecessary(yet). Basically that I'm not wasting my time on something completely ignorant that is accomplishing nothing. The seed(not speed) steeping was my hang up. Placebo effect? I guess would be the best way I can put that maybe? Where what I think I'm seeing is not really what I'm seeing. That I'm not running into one of those with the seed and/or speed steep. I mean I'm not going to vape 50/50 just flavor before and after I steep it. And just tasting it really doesn't tell you anything at those concentrations, I tried. It's going to take more time on my part to study on. I see so much stuff happening in a bottle that is still difficult for me to identify. But I so far am not doing anything useless or extremely ineffecient.

"It doesn't seem reasonable that speed steeping would have that much of an impact, but it works, so there is something else going on that I haven't been able to qualify. "

That was a hang up too. I had something in the back of my mind telling me that because of something I'd read. Problem is I can't find where I saw what made that stick in my mind. But that is enough for me right there with what I'm seeing personally.
I now know I don't have any of the above conditions. I'll keep on keepin' on.
Looks like you told me a pretty good bit right? Didn't take much. There were others but they were a result of the seed steep. That simplified it drastically. Make sense now?

 

[Hoosier]

Right. You don't HAVE to be crazy to do this, but it does help.