Sigelei Zmax V3 and V5 Telescopic: User's Group

[fairmana]

Interesting. I see what you mean about the half-round support. It doesn't look they wanted to "waste" any extra glue, does it? The screen bezel is completely different too, not just a square piece of black foam glued to the underside of it.

What worries me is that the switch looks identical to the old V3 switch that I was forced to replace after only a month or two of use. I hope I'm wrong and that this "new" switch just looks similar... I guess time will tell.

Thanks for the pics JeremyR!

 

[JeremyR]

Oh it's exactly the same. Same as some vamos I've seen too.

I think I know why the switches don't work well. It has to be completely level. To the point where even that little bit of glue caused the board to angle just enough that the switch misfires a lot from the factory.

I've had it apart twice now and it's getting as easy as rebuilding an atomizer.

First time i did it I tried a small piece of electrical tape under the cradle below switch end thinking it need more support because it used to push the board down. Which was wrong by the way, once I added the retainer it kept the board down tight, it was actually the top end of board lifting up... The switch misfired more than ever almost wouldn't fire it at all most the time. Just from that thin piece of tape. So broke it down removed that. The cradle fell off snapped it back on, oops the old glue is on the switch side now.. Oh well... Wrong.. Switch is much better, but I have to push a bit bit of angle to fire clean every time. So I'm going to scrape off that glue so it fits perfectly in the tube. I expect it to fire correctly every time better than new.

 

[JeremyR]

So here's my mod. Get a plastic washer that fits in the tube a little big is better than small. An exacto knife and a careful hand.

Well it was 11pm so I went with what if found at the house. A 3/4 pex tube insert. I cut the tube off and used the ring as a washer

Cut about 40% off and cut notches for the board to sit in, so when put on it was able to sit flush with the cradle support.

Test fit , I ended up carving it to fit perfect. Washer was ever so slightly bigger to start with. I also cut the neg side notch bigger to allow room for the neg wire.

Fitment on the way in

Its in if you look really close not the best pic but you can see How the black neg wire is close, so I did notch it out there to give the neg more
Room.

No glue needed

 

[fairmana]

Oh it's exactly the same. Same as some vamos I've seen too.

I think I know why the switches don't work well. It has to be completely level. To the point where even that little bit of glue caused the board to angle just enough that the switch misfires a lot from the factory.

I've had it apart twice now and it's getting as easy as rebuilding an atomizer.

First time i did it I tried a small piece of electrical tape under the cradle below switch end thinking it need more support because it used to push the board down. Which was wrong by the way, once I added the retainer it kept the board down tight, it was actually the top end of board lifting up... The switch misfired more than ever almost wouldn't fire it at all most the time. Just from that thin piece of tape. So broke it down removed that. The cradle fell off snapped it back on, oops the old glue is on the switch side now.. Oh well... Wrong.. Switch is much better, but I have to push a bit bit of angle to fire clean every time. So I'm going to scrape off that glue so it fits perfectly in the tube. I expect it to fire correctly every time better than new.

Here's the thing... I replaced the original switch in my sigelei V3 and since I then had the original switch removed and in my hand, I got curious as to why it wasn't working properly. First, I hooked my meter to the legs of the switch with alligator clips. Then used my meter's audible continuity tester to verify that the switch didn't short like it should on most button presses. I thought "why isn't this thing working right?". So I took an exacto knife and cut the 4 round little black nubs off the top of the switch so I could take it apart and found that the switch was similar to other style switches I had taken apart in the past. There is a little convex round disk under the black button that "pops" flat when it's pushed down (similar to those "cricket" noise makers kids play with). That's what gives you the "clicky" feel when you press it. There are two electrical contacts under the outer edge of the disk that always make contact with it, and one contact in the center that only makes contact when the convex disk "clicks" or "pops" down to touch it. This action shorts the two contacts on the outer edge with the single contact in the center through the convex disk which is how the switch operates.

With a magnifying glass, I found that in the center of the disk on the concave side of it, there was some wear (see image below). I would describe it as pock-marking or a corroded appearance that was the same size as the center contact below it (very small). I tried to clean it up with alcohol and a cotton swap to see if it was just gunk, but it couldn't be removed. I came to the conclusion that the metal surface of the disk itself was worn and not making a good connection anymore with the below center contact when the button was pushed. It's almost as if the switch was arcing and eroding the surface, but there shouldn't be that much current going through the switch. Maybe the switch is not rated at a high enough current?

At any rate, I put the switch back together, and repeated the previous continuity test with my meter. Strangely enough, the button seemed to work great again. I got a beep every time I pressed the button, instead of just once in a while. I believe this is because the convex disk was no longer in the same exact position as before (no longer mated to the lower contact in the same exact way) so it started making much better contact again (not that I would consider putting the original switch back in mind you). I suppose someone in a pinch could open up the switch while still soldered to the circuit board and do what I did. Then place small dabs of gel super glue on the 4 cutoff nubs to hold it together again. I wouldn't recommend it though.

So what's my point after all this? I don't think the problems with this switch are associated with the switch needing to be pressed while flat under the outer button. If you can hear the "click" of the switch, then you know that the what you did was sufficient to engage the switch and that it "should" be making contact. That convex disk will "pop" flat to the same position each time which should be sufficient to short the disk to the center contact inside the switch.

My conclusion is that these switches can wear out very quickly from normal use. What confuses me is that some people report no problems after months of use, while others report problems very soon after purchase. I can only assume that there were more than one type switch purchased by sigelei for use in the V3 and that the difference is significant enough over time (metal alloy the disk is made of, etc.). There is also the possibility that they are all made by the same manufacturer, but that some turn out OK while others do not (manufacturing process or quality control?).

Anyway, feel free to take from this what you will and come to your own conclusions. I'm going to give my new version V3 a chance, but the moment I start to notice issues with this switch, it's coming out of there and getting replaced like I did with my first V3 (entering the menu by accident, not firing when pressed, etc.)

(In this pic, the disk is flipped over so you can see the side that makes contact with the lower portion of the switch in the bottom left corner of the image.)

 

[fairmana]

Good job JeremyR. I had considered in the past using a spacer to fill the void between the board and the cap, but never did it. I guess I didn't want to mess with trying to determine the size of the gap with the cap on (not easy to do). I'm glad this worked out for you.

Oh, and thanks for including the pics! Those are going to help anyone wanting to do the same thing.

 

[yzer]

Thanks to both fairmana and JeremyR for some fascinating posts.

It looks like Sigelei has made some internal design improvements with the new production V3s that undoubtedly carried over to the V5s. The half-round support for the circuit boards and the solid mount for the OLED display are major changes. I can't help but think that that Sigelei needs one more improvement in this area: maybe a better glue. I'd suggest an improved adhesive like 3M 5200 or a similar polyurethane adhesive/sealer from Sika. I've used both products in boat restoration projects. 3M 5200 will stick metal to plastics permanently retaining enough slight flexibility to resist cracking. These polyurethanes can handle heat, too. You need to sand or scrape 5200 off to remove it once cured. Both the 3M and Sika products cure from moisture in the air.

I had some intermittent switch issues with my first Sigelei during the first two months of use but that problem went away. I've rarely had a misfire with it during the last six months of daily use. Maybe the suggestion of 100 rapid clicks to clear switch issues has some merit due to the design of the switch contact. I can see where switch sourcing issues could affect the reliability of these power buttons. I've had zero misfires with the Sigelei I purchased as a back-up nearly two weeks ago. I'll be using the new Sigelei constantly until the two-week warranty expires in a few days and then go back to using the older one.

It's encouraging to see that Sigelei is taking an active role in continual improvement of their product.

 

[fairmana]

I've had it apart twice now and it's getting as easy as rebuilding an atomizer.

JeremyR, now that you've had your new version V3 apart a few times, what method do you find works best to remove the top cap? I bring this up because if/when I open mine I don't want to warp the removable threaded collar. Did you just put the body in a vice and rock the top cap off of it like most of us have done in the past with the old version? If so, how well did your removable collar hold up to the stress? Any lessons learned on what we should avoid or be especially cautious of?

Thanks ahead of time for any tips!

 

[ch1naski]

Here's the thing... I replaced the original switch in my Sigelei V3 and since I then had the original switch removed and in my hand, I got curious as to why it wasn't working properly. First, I hooked my meter to the legs of the switch with alligator clips. Then used my meter's audible continuity tester to verify that the switch didn't short like it should on most button presses. I thought "why isn't this thing working right?". So I took an exacto knife and cut the 4 round little black nubs off the top of the switch so I could take it apart and found that the switch was similar to other style switches I had taken apart in the past. There is a little convex round disk under the black button that "pops" flat when it's pushed down (similar to those "cricket" noise makers kids play with). That's what gives you the "clicky" feel when you press it. There are two electrical contacts under the outer edge of the disk that always make contact with it, and one contact in the center that only makes contact when the convex disk "clicks" or "pops" down to touch it. This action shorts the two contacts on the outer edge with the single contact in the center through the convex disk which is how the switch operates.

With a magnifying glass, I found that in the center of the disk on the concave side of it, there was some wear (see image below). I would describe it as pock-marking or a corroded appearance that was the same size as the center contact below it (very small). I tried to clean it up with alcohol and a cotton swap to see if it was just gunk, but it couldn't be removed. I came to the conclusion that the metal surface of the disk itself was worn and not making a good connection anymore with the below center contact when the button was pushed. It's almost as if the switch was arcing and eroding the surface, but there shouldn't be that much current going through the switch. Maybe the switch is not rated at a high enough current?

At any rate, I put the switch back together, and repeated the previous continuity test with my meter. Strangely enough, the button seemed to work great again. I got a beep every time I pressed the button, instead of just once in a while. I believe this is because the convex disk was no longer in the same exact position as before (no longer mated to the lower contact in the same exact way) so it started making much better contact again (not that I would consider putting the original switch back in mind you). I suppose someone in a pinch could open up the switch while still soldered to the circuit board and do what I did. Then place small dabs of gel super glue on the 4 cutoff nubs to hold it together again. I wouldn't recommend it though.

So what's my point after all this? I don't think the problems with this switch are associated with the switch needing to be pressed while flat under the outer button. If you can hear the "click" of the switch, then you know that the what you did was sufficient to engage the switch and that it "should" be making contact. That convex disk will "pop" flat to the same position each time which should be sufficient to short the disk to the center contact inside the switch.

My conclusion is that these switches can wear out very quickly from normal use. What confuses me is that some people report no problems after months of use, while others report problems very soon after purchase. I can only assume that there were more than one type switch purchased by Sigelei for use in the V3 and that the difference is significant enough over time (metal alloy the disk is made of, etc.). There is also the possibility that they are all made by the same manufacturer, but that some turn out OK while others do not (manufacturing process or quality control?).

Anyway, feel free to take from this what you will and come to your own conclusions. I'm going to give my new version V3 a chance, but the moment I start to notice issues with this switch, it's coming out of there and getting replaced like I did with my first V3 (entering the menu by accident, not firing when pressed, etc.)

(In this pic, the disk is flipped over so you can see the side that makes contact with the lower portion of the switch in the bottom left corner of the image.)

View attachment 285060

That is an awesome breakdown. While I do have the equipment to replace surface mount hardware, I don't feel I should have to with a $50 device. Segelei is probably using the cheapest switches they can find, just like the ones found in many electronic devices. The problem is, with apv's, we put a lot of mileage on these switches. All switched are rated for a lifespan based on the number of times they are "switched".
I think they may have underestimated the amount of lifespan rating they need for this device.

Curt.

 

[yzer]

That is an awesome breakdown. While I do have the equipment to replace surface mount hardware, I don't feel I should have to with a $50 device. Segelei is probably using the cheapest switches they can find, just like the ones found in many electronic devices. The problem is, with apv's, we put a lot of mileage on these switches. All switched are rated for a lifespan based on the number of times they are "switched".
I think they may have underestimated the amount of lifespan rating they need for this device.

Curt.

A switch with a higher amp rating may be what is needed. From the photo I see what looks to be pitting or cratering in the center of the dome contact. This is likely caused by arcing at the contact rather than physical wear from switch contact.

 

[fairmana]

A switch with a higher amp rating may be what is needed. From the photo I see what looks to be pitting or cratering in the center of the dome contact. This is likely caused by arcing at the contact rather than physical wear from switch contact.

I was wondering about that myself, but if that's the case, it was definitely a design flaw. The switch should only be alternating a logic level at a very low current to the microprocessor. Normally what happens is that upon sensing the logic change, the microprocessor would then turn on a external MOSFET that allows the higher currents to pass to the atomizer (completely independent of the switch circuit). It's possible they failed to use a higher value resistor in series with the switch to reduce that switch current, but if so, then wow, what a blunder.

 

[vapnstuff]

Well, I got back into vaping a month or so ago and was perfectly satisfied with my 4 Vision Spinners (1300mah). I knew I wanted something variable instead of the Joye 510's I had tried 3 years ago so I was happy. Then a couple of weeks ago, I got an iTaste MVP 2 and was really impressed with it. I had been looking at that plus the Zmax and Vamo but for the price I paid for it, it was a no brainer. Then I stumbled across this thread and was impressed with the wealth of information so I started to seriously consider the Sigelei ZMax v3 Flat Top, but I also needed batteries and a charger. I ended up ordering a Zmax V3 SS and a couple AW IMR 18650 - 2000mah through Desert Vapes (best price) a couple days ago. I've heard that the 1600mah have a better Discharge Rate but these should work fine for now. What about a charger? I picked up an XTAR XP4 Panzer but it has 4 bays so now I'll have to get more batteries, not that I need more but it's aesthetically more pleasing. Does it ever end? Part of the reason I took up vaping was to save money on analogues ... I don't see that happening any time soon.

Yeah, I know I could have bought a Provari but there is justification in my madness. I take the Spinners with me to work - I have 4 flavors and they fit in my pocket better. The iTaste goes with e when I'm away for a couple of days and the Zmax will probably stay home and look pretty, but that's subject to change, especially if I get another one as a backup. The Provari? Maybe someday but then I'm afraid I'll lose the joy of the hunt.

 

[fairmana]

That is an awesome breakdown. While I do have the equipment to replace surface mount hardware, I don't feel I should have to with a $50 device. Segelei is probably using the cheapest switches they can find, just like the ones found in many electronic devices. The problem is, with apv's, we put a lot of mileage on these switches. All switched are rated for a lifespan based on the number of times they are "switched".
I think they may have underestimated the amount of lifespan rating they need for this device.

Curt.

I completely agree. I don't know what the spec's are on the switch, but the one I used to replace it with is rated for 1 million button presses and it is sealed. I doubt the original switch comes anywhere near those specs.

The replacement switch I used only costs $2.67 at Digikey. I can't speak for anyone else, but I doubt anyone would have an issue with paying that much more for a PV to offset the cost of using them (not to mention that when bought in bulk, they are much cheaper).

It's just a damn shame that such a great device would have an achilles heal like this for the sake of a dollar or two in production cost. Hopefully the lesson was learned and Sigelei is using better switches in the latest versions.

 

[yzer]

I was wondering about that myself, but if that's the case, it was definitely a design flaw. The switch should only be alternating a logic level at a very low current to the microprocessor. Normally what happens is that upon sensing the logic change, the microprocessor would then turn on a external MOSFET that allows the higher currents to pass to the atomizer (completely independent of the switch circuit). It's possible they failed to use a higher value resistor in series with the switch to reduce that switch current, but if so, then wow, what a blunder.

Yep. They may be running more current through that switch than we assumed was needed for switching purposes.

 

[yzer]

fairmana, was the inside of that switch dusty when you opened it up the first time? Did you see anything that could have caused dirty contacts to arc? Is there pitting on the inside of the dome contact?

 

[GRH8095]

Sigelei Telescoping ZMax V3 Flat-Top ... ( Since 08 April 2013 ) ... From ElectronicStix

8 Months ... in use
- Daily out & about mod
- Performing great
- No issues
- IMO ... 1 of the best regulated devices out there

I pretty much, retired my IBTanked catomizer tank 22mm SS, for the ZMax V3 ...

Now, I have a Kayfun Lite by EHPro, paired up with the ZMax V3
= Excellent Vape !


Happy Holidays To All !!!

 

[fairmana]

As some of you are already aware, I own an older V3. However I recently bought two more V3's. I should clarify and say I bought one for myself from 101 Vapes and then decided to buy another for a family member after the fact (X-mas gift). Since 101 Vapes was sold out, I bought the 2nd one from Desert Vapes. Strangely enough, the two "newer" V3's were not identical and I thought it might be interesting to share the different characteristics between them with everyone on the forum.

To make it easier to refer to each of these V3's, I'll call the one from "101 Vapes" #1 and the one from "Desert Vapes" #2.

For starters, I was thankful that both arrived with the removable cap (I was worried about not getting that feature when I ordered them). The both have the same basic configuration regarding length, width, and heft and each came with the additional battery cap. The menu's in both are the same as far as I could tell (no scrolling "resistance" at least). The buttons look the same from the outside as best I can tell, and they both "feel" the same when pressed.

One thing I noticed about #2 was that it came in a slightly smaller black box than the white box that #1 came in. The black packaging had an area on the end where they could "check a box" and identify which version was inside, which I found interesting. It listed V2 through V5, as well as a possible check box for a MINI Zmax. Mine had the V3 box checked obviously. On the opposite end it had a sticker identifying it as a "Zmax V3 Flat Head Stainless". None of this stuff was on the white box that #1 came with.

Once I removed #2 from the packaging, I noticed it had some distinct outer markings on the tube. It has a "Sigelei" logo directly under the button, and has a "CE" logo down on the battery cap along with a tiny image of a trash can with an "X" through it (which I assume means don't throw the battery in the trash/dispose of properly). The CE logo (upon researching the internet) identifies it as complying with the safety requirements established by the European Union. I'm not sure if that means I got a V3 intended for sale in Europe, but I can't say I care much about that. They may just be making them this way from now on "in case" they are sold there. I don't like these logo's on the PV much, but that's just me and is probably because I'm not accustomed to seeing them on there.

Another distinction that I'm not sure how I noticed, was the size of the positive contact inside the head. When comparing the new versions to my original V3, both of the new ones are smaller. #1 has the smallest area of contact, while #2 is somewhere in between. I can only assume that making them smaller than the original V3 was to reduce the chance of shorting between pos/neg with different tanks, cartos, etc.

I took some pics shown below. Any comments welcome!

 

[fairmana]

fairmana, was the inside of that switch dusty when you opened it up the first time? Did you see anything that could have caused dirty contacts to arc? Is there pitting on the inside of the dome contact?

The inside of the switch did not appear to have any contamination that I could see with the naked eye. That was my first guess as to why the switch was going bad since it's not a sealed switch. The underside of the concave dome was definitely pitted. I remember having to push pretty hard on the button so it would fire just before I replaced it (used my thumb cuz my index finger got tired from doing it). I'm not sure if that helped the pitting or not, but the lower contact appeared nice and rounded, so I don't know where the pitting came from if not from arcing or some sort of strange corrosion (doubtful). You can kinda see the pitting in the image I posted, but it was hard to get a good macro shot of such a small area.

I'll see if I can get a better pic with a different camera later and post it. I know I still have the old switch around here somewhere...

 

[yzer]

The inside of the switch did not appear to have any contamination that I could see with the naked eye. That was my first guess as to why the switch was going bad since it's not a sealed switch. The underside of the concave dome was definitely pitted. I remember having to push pretty hard on the button so it would fire just before I replaced it (used my thumb cuz my index finger got tired from doing it). I'm not sure if that helped the pitting or not, but the lower contact appeared nice and rounded, so I don't know where the pitting came from if not from arcing or some sort of strange corrosion (doubtful). You can kinda see the pitting in the image I posted, but it was hard to get a good macro shot of such a small area.

I'll see if I can get a better pic with a different camera later and post it. I know I still have the old switch around here somewhere...

A new photo isn't needed. The pitting is pretty obvious in the photo you posted. You replaced the switch on an older model V3, right?

 

[yzer]

Sigelei Telescoping ZMax V3 Flat-Top ... ( Since 08 April 2013 ) ... From ElectronicStix

8 Months ... in use
- Daily out & about mod
- Performing great
- No issues
- IMO ... 1 of the best regulated devices out there

I pretty much, retired my IBTanked catomizer tank 22mm SS, for the ZMax V3 ...

Now, I have a Kayfun Lite by EHPro, paired up with the ZMax V3
= Excellent Vape !


Happy Holidays To All !!!

Happy holidays to you too! We purchased identical Sigeleis from the same vendor in the same month. I bought mine about a week later. I guess we got good ones!

 

[yzer]

As some of you are already aware, I own an older V3. However I recently bought two more V3's. I should clarify and say I bought one for myself from 101 Vapes and then decided to buy another for a family member after the fact (X-mas gift). Since 101 Vapes was sold out, I bought the 2nd one from Desert Vapes. Strangely enough, the two "newer" V3's were not identical and I thought it might be interesting to share the different characteristics between them with everyone on the forum.

To make it easier to refer to each of these V3's, I'll call the one from "101 Vapes" #1 and the one from "Desert Vapes" #2.

For starters, I was thankful that both arrived with the removable cap (I was worried about not getting that feature when I ordered them). The both have the same basic configuration regarding length, width, and heft and each came with the additional battery cap. The menu's in both are the same as far as I could tell (no scrolling "resistance" at least). The buttons look the same from the outside as best I can tell, and they both "feel" the same when pressed.

One thing I noticed about #2 was that it came in a slightly smaller black box than the white box that #1 came in. The black packaging had an area on the end where they could "check a box" and identify which version was inside, which I found interesting. It listed V2 through V5, as well as a possible check box for a MINI Zmax. Mine had the V3 box checked obviously. On the opposite end it had a sticker identifying it as a "Zmax V3 Flat Head Stainless". None of this stuff was on the white box that #1 came with.

Once I removed #2 from the packaging, I noticed it had some distinct outer markings on the tube. It has a "Sigelei" logo directly under the button, and has a "CE" logo down on the battery cap along with a tiny image of a trash can with an "X" through it (which I assume means don't throw the battery in the trash/dispose of properly). The CE logo (upon researching the internet) identifies it as complying with the safety requirements established by the European Union. I'm not sure if that means I got a V3 intended for sale in Europe, but I can't say I care much about that. They may just be making them this way from now on "in case" they are sold there. I don't like these logo's on the PV much, but that's just me and is probably because I'm not accustomed to seeing them on there.

Another distinction that I'm not sure how I noticed, was the size of the positive contact inside the head. When comparing the new versions to my original V3, both of the new ones are smaller. #1 has the smallest area of contact, while #2 is somewhere in between. I can only assume that making them smaller than the original V3 was to reduce the chance of shorting between pos/neg with different tanks, cartos, etc.

I took some pics shown below. Any comments welcome!

My new production V3 came from 101 Vape. It was packaged in a white box that says Sigelei on the side and has the CE mark on the end of the box. The Sigelei itself has no logos. Yes, the brass center pin in the 510 connector is smaller in diameter than the brass center pin on my older Sigelei purchased in April. Keep in mind that the entire 510/eGo connection assembly was re-engineered for the removable top cap. While the new eGo threading is stainless steel, the older is brass. The 510 threading on both are SS. The diameter of the 510 center pin top should not matter. It's still wider than the contact area on 510 center posts found on atomizing devices.

I don't think the boxing materials matter much. That is a matter of choice when orders are made to Sigelei. I have seen the Sigelei V3 and V5 with the Sigelei and CE logos on photos from European websites and video reviews. This may be yet another variation in production runs.