Slow Cooker Extraction of Tobacco and Tea

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LongDraw

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So a question for all you fine folks.

I have mix my net juice up at 70pg/30vg just like my synthetic flavorings, but with the NET juices do not seem to wick the same. I have to open my juice control more and after a few pulls it doesn't keep wicking so I have to open and close the juice control more to almost force the juice to the wick. Does this happen to anyone else?

I am not sure if this is the issue but, when I am done with the 3 cook sessions I also take the tobacco and put it in a syringe and squeeze out the pg from the tobacco as well. Could oils be coming out of the tobacco which is affecting wicking? Do others just use the pg that was sitting there and not get out the pg from the tobacco?

When I filter I do 4 complete filters with unbleached coffee filter. Each stage I use many many filters.

My syringe filter just came in. Gonna clean 5mls of concentrate and make up a small 15ml batch and then see how it wicks after it steeps for about 2 days. Just wanted to put some questions out there. Hopefully, this could help the issue.
 

LongDraw

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Sorry about that. Right now I have only tried the juices using my ithaka. You turn the mouth piece which exposes the wick. After a draw or two I have to open the control more then after a bit close it and open it.

Just used the syringe filter. Works great. Mixed up 10mls and gonna wait till friday to load it up and test it. Kept it at the same percent

Cleaned the filter to as I saw someone post, gently forced water the reverse way. If this works I have already begun pricing reusable filter holders.

Don't know what JDS you're using or what a juice control is.

I vape a lot of NETs and find they perform far better on a rebuildable atty IMO. I squeeze the juice up from below on my Reo Grand with rebuildable Reomizer 2. All the flavor of dripping, juice on board, never a dry hit.
 

johni

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Mixed up very small test batches today and tried them. Wow!! Two out of three are just bangin good already, the third tastes like it will be a long steeper to fully develop. I am pleasantly surprised with this first run and wondering now why I waited so long to try this method. :D

Scarf, thank you for sharing! I'll have some juice to send your way if it turns out as good as this test would indicate.:thumb:
 

billherbst

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I have essentially the same report as johni.

Finished my first pipe tobacco cook two days ago---one aromatic, one non-aro, and one English blend---15 grams each. Upon completion of the triple-filtering, I was left with 70mls of Sultan's Blend NET (English, seven tobaccos with nut, dark coffee, and hickory), 90mls of Sunset Rum NET (aro, three baccos aged in rum), and 100mls of Jefferson Street NET (non-aro, three tobaccos with nuts and rum raisin). In typical fashion for me, I immediately mixed up some test batches (my practice is to always try every juice or extract fresh so that I have a benchmark for any changes produced by steeping).

My, oh my! These are delicious. While neither as boldly intense in flavor nor as bright as NET retail juices such as Ahlusion Blue Grass Burley and Devil Dog, MOV Apache, or w2v London and C.I. Cigar, all three are quite wonderful. Unlike my cigarette extracts, which I mix at about 13%, these are more subtle, so I mix them stronger. At 25%, all three give deep, rich flavor. Each is quite distinct. I'm pleased as punch with all of them.
 

DoloresB

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I have essentially the same report as johni.

Finished my first pipe tobacco cook two days ago---one aromatic, one non-aro, and one English blend---15 grams each. Upon completion of the triple-filtering, I was left with 70mls of Sultan's Blend NET (English, seven tobaccos with nut, dark coffee, and hickory), 90mls of Sunset Rum NET (aro, three baccos aged in rum), and 100mls of Jefferson Street NET (non-aro, three tobaccos with nuts and rum raisin). In typical fashion for me, I immediately mixed up some test batches (my practice is to always try every juice or extract fresh so that I have a benchmark for any changes produced by steeping).

My, oh my! These are delicious. While neither as boldly intense in flavor nor as bright as NET retail juices such as Ahlusion Blue Grass Burley and Devil Dog, MOV Apache, or w2v London and C.I. Cigar, all three are quite wonderful. Unlike my cigarette extracts, which I mix at about 13%, these are more subtle, so I mix them stronger. At 25%, all three give deep, rich flavor. Each is quite distinct. I'm pleased as punch with all of them.

Thanks for that, Bill! This encourages me to continue with my own extractions. Just need to get some good pipe tobacco to extract from.
 

johni

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Thanks for that, Bill! This encourages me to continue with my own extractions. Just need to get some good pipe tobacco to extract from.

Check out bulk pipe tobacco by the ounce on Pipes and Cigars site. As little as $2.50 per ounce. Comes in a small labeled baggie.
 

billherbst

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I'll add another source to go with Johni's.

Milan Tobacconists sells a large selection of their own pipe blends for $2.95/ounce (30 grams) in three categories: Aromatics, Non-aromatics, and English blends. Shipping isn't cheap ($8.70), so buying five or six different blends is a good way to reduce the unit cost.

Link: Milan Pipe Tobaccos
 

billherbst

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I’ve been working on this for awhile now, and---after two failures---I finally get to report a success, at least a modest one.

My first coffee extract was made in similar fashion to my tobacco cooks. I ground up 30grams of roasted Sidamo Guji beans (a delicious specialty bean from Africa that I home-roasted, as I do all my coffee) at espresso grind (very fine), added 200mls of 75% PG and 25% VG, did a two-day heat process of four low-heat cooks that consisted of six hours at simmer followed by six hours rest, then used my three-stage filtering process. That produced 150mls of coffee extract. Results in DIY juice were not dreadful, but decidedly odd and unsatisfying. The coffee flavor was sort of hollow, with a slightly metallic side-taste. I have no idea where that metallic taste came from.

I altered the process for my second attempt. I used 30 grams Central American home-roasted beans instead of African, and I ground them much coarser---a French-press grind rather than espresso grind. For the liquid, I again used 200mls, but this time it was 50% VG and 50% water. I speculated that the absorption of flavinoids from the coffee might be better with water.

Then I did a short-heat, long cold-steep method. I microwaved the slurry for 15 seconds four times over four minutes to kick-start the extraction, then I put the maceration in the refrigerator to cold-steep for a week. Then I filtered the liquid in my now-standard three-step fashion. The results were awful. So bad, in fact, that I poured the entire batch of extract down the drain.

One thought that Scarfy brought up recently is that instant coffee might work better. Instant coffee is “natural,” which is to say, it’s made from real coffee beans, and some brands use no additives. I did some research online to see what brands of freeze-dried instant coffee were most favored by reviewers and consumers.

Today I purchased a small bottle of Medalia d’Oro Instant Espresso Coffee that’s imported from Italy, which had received good reviews as a reasonable facsimile of real espresso. Some reviews considered it a bit in-your-face with its strong potency, but the consensus was positive. It was the only highly-rated instant coffee available at my local Fred Meyer here in Florence (I had wanted Bustello or Pilon), so I bought the Medalia D'Oro. The two-ounce bottle was $4.79.

Upon opening the bottle at home, I discovered that this coffee is different from the freeze-dried “crystals” of many other brands, which are chunky, sharp little bits, almost like tiny rocks, while the Medalia D’Oro is fine and granular---not powdery at all, but composed of uniform grains about half the size of sand. I don’t know the manufacturing process used by Medalia D'Oro to get from coffee to grains, but I have to admit that I trust the Europeans somewhat more than I do any of the big American “grocery store” companies to make their product in a way that's natural and non-toxic.

I took a 50ml glass bottle of my Sidamo Guji extract and added 1 1/2 teaspoons of the Medalia D’Oro granular coffee. After shaking the bottle for quite awhile, the grains of instant coffee still hadn’t dissolved in the 50/50 PG/VG extract liquid. So, I microwaved it in four short bursts of ten seconds each over five minutes and then let it rest for an hour to cool. That seemed to work to dissolve the grains of instant coffee into the liquid, or so it appeared visually.

Next, I mixed up a 5ml bottle of DIY “Sidamo D’Oro” Espresso using 15% extract at 24mg nic in an overall base of 25/75 PG/VG. Since I was still concerned with particulates, I loaded the juice into a new 3.0 ohm Boge SR510 carto, thinking that if the coils were going to get gunked up, the filler material would delay it. I vaped the carto on a VAMO set to 7.5 watts RMS.

Wonder of wonders, it’s actually pretty good! The hollowness and metallic taste of the Sidamo Guji extract are gone, replaced by a sharp and pungent espresso flavor. Not sweet at all, but not sour, either. I vaped the carto for 20 minutes, then topped it up by adding one drop of liquid stevia and eight drops of FA Cream Fresh DIY juice.

Voilà! Cappuccino rather than straight espresso. It’s still potent and sharp, but the cream and a tiny bit of sweetener have smoothed it out nicely. Wow. It’s not just vapeable, it’s really good. More like real espresso than regular coffee, but that’s fine with me. Mixed at a lower percentage (say, 8-10% extract), “Sidamo D’Oro” should made a lovely base for “Starbucks-type” drinks, like Vanilla Frappuccino or Caramel Macchiato.

My next experiment will be to make another batch the same way, but to forego the Sidamo Guji extract as a base and instead use pure, unflavored PG/VG with the Medalia D’Oro. That should be interesting.
 

LongDraw

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I’ve been working on this for awhile now, and---after two failures---I finally get to report a success, at least a modest one......................

Awesome to hear Bill. May have to give that a go myself. I had set aside the coffee idea and finished my 3 pipe tobaccos. Each are working great. So far sam's flake has more of a kick then the cherry cavendish, and I am waiting for my chocolate flake to steep until this weekend before loading it up. I mixed up another bottle of cherry cavendish at 15% so will see if I start moving up some of the percentages of flavorings on each.

I went back and reviewed your cigarette extractions. I just got back from the tobacco shop and picked up a pack of Nat Sherman MCD Gold (looking at their website these looked like they had a stronger flavor) and Organic American Spirit.

I cut out the tobacco from the Shermans and have them waiting for the first cook tonight. Fingers crossed, sounded like from our results both were good.

Can't believe how much PG I have gone through, lol. Gonna look at ordering a gallon from essential depot. Ordering this from Wizard labs becomes to costly. Unfortunately I don't think I will do the two gallon deal because I have a lot of vg since I only use that in my final mix and at 30%.

EDIT: So I took all of the tobacco from the nat shermans tobacco. I put the pg in and hope I didn't use to much. I mixed and made sure the pg was a little over the tobacco, but after it settles I see tobacco on bottom of the jar and tobacco at top and space between. Used more pg than I normally do, it seemed it needed it though. Hoping the tobacco soaks up some of the pg, just don't want the concentrate to be to light and have to mess with having really high percentages needed.
 
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glassgal

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I was wondering about coffee, and thought that might be my next experiment, so this is really interesting!!

I had read that coffee doesn't make good extract (even when it smells delicious). Freeze dried is a great idea!! And to know that someone did it successfully is really encouraging:).
 

billherbst

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Yes, it seems that the effort and art of working with roasted beans is wasted for vaping extract. Instant coffee is definitely the way to go. Luckily for us, instant coffee has come a long way since the gourmet coffee revolution started back in the 1980s, and especially over the last two decades. I'm not an instant coffee drinker, but from what I've read online over the past couple days---hundreds of instant coffee reviews and numerous "Best of" lists---we have many high-quality choices. [I'm making an assumption here, of course, that good-tasting instant coffee will make better vaping extract than garbage instant coffee, but that seems reasonable.]

This afternoon I made a batch of extract from the Medaglia D'Oro. It was so easy---much easier than tobacco, because cooking is quick and filtering doesn't seem to be necessary. [I'll find out over time if no-filtering is actually OK.]

I used 100mls of VG for this batch, thinking that the natural sweetness of VG might enhance the flavor. Into this I put four rounded teaspoonsful of the instant coffee granules, shook the jar for about a minute to distribute the granules into the suspension, then placed the closed jar into a simmering water bath on the stove. I didn't want to actually "cook" the liquid, just head it gently to dissolve the granules. I kept the water in the pot just below a simmer and let it go for an hour. After that, the liquid was very dark but transparent, with no visible granules in the liquid or remaining on the sides of the jar when tilted. That's it! Instant coffee extract!

I mixed up a 5ml bottle of DIY juice using 20% Medaglia D'Oro extract and did an atty-drip head-to-head comparison to my previous batch, the "Sidamo D'Oro" hybrid extract. The Medalia is sweeter---I think because of the all-VG base---but it's not "sweet." It's also deeper, although the Sidamo hybrid is more multi-dimensional. There was no clear winner, however; both DIY juices were pleasing, tasty vapes.

Compared to the retail coffee/espresso/cappuccino flavorings I have (which FlavourArt, DecadentVapours, Capella, TPA/TFA, Nature'sFlavors, TotallyWicked, and others.) and my favorite retail coffee eliquids (BWB Espresso or Cappuccino, Copper Creek Coffee or Cappuccino, Highbrow Cappuccino Diablo, and ThePlumeRoom Ultimate Expresso), my DIY juices made with homemade extract are not quite as tasty as the very best of these, but they're definitely in the ballpark. It's a good start. The whole process took two hours from start to finish.

This evening I ordered some more instant coffees online, some specialty brands I can't get locally here in my tiny Oregon coast town---Bustelo's Supreme, Pilon Espresso, Ferrara Espresso---and even a small jar of NesCafé Clasico (yeah, I know---NesCafé?---well, the Clasico got good reviews, and it was only $3.38, just enough to put me over the top for free shipping from Amazon, LOL.)

More reports will be forthcoming in the weeks ahead.
 
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Koman

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I'll add another source to go with Johni's.

Milan Tobacconists sells a large selection of their own pipe blends for $2.95/ounce (30 grams) in three categories: Aromatics, Non-aromatics, and English blends. Shipping isn't cheap ($8.70), so buying five or six different blends is a good way to reduce the unit cost.

Link: Milan Pipe Tobaccos

Thanks for the link!
 

glassgal

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Great info! What's left to know is how damaging to coils/atomizer relative to other flavors, and whether the flavors you made changed over time:). I'm very looking forward to your results!

In the meantime, I just did a teeny test (10mg) with Tasters Choice instant (because that's all that was in the cupboard). It's having a tough time dissolving in the water bath, but I put 1/2 a tsp in that 10 mg, so it's probably at the limit of saturation. Will let it sit for a day or so before diluting:)!
 

billherbst

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Yes, those are critical questions: flavor over time, and impact on coils. What I've done is no solution if the flavor degrades (I hope it will improve with steeping) or if juice made from the extract kills coils too fast (all juice gunks up or kills coils---the issue is how bad the gunking is or how quickly the coil dies).

In the ideal, I'd think that we want juices whose flavorings are particulates down at the molecular level, not as huge boulders or big clumps of flavoring in liquid suspension. The best solvent for instant coffee is water, but we don't want water in our vaping extracts. PG and VG are less effective in dissolving the coffee. Heat and/or time seem to me the two most likely techniques to speed or maximize that process. The hot water bath I used yesterday apparently worked well, but we'll see about that. I simply don't know how effective cold steeping will be for dissolving coffee granules or crystals.

I'm not a chemist. I'm just an enthusiast flying by the seat of my pants.
 

glassgal

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I'm not a chemist either, but I have decades of working with absolutes, tinctures, extracts. I just haven't been vaping very long to know what I'm trying to accomplish. I've only tried 3 juices from 1 company, so I'm still trying to figure what I'm shooting for. Replicating an experienced vaper's experiment, who can tell me that something tastes good to him, is a huge deal. Right now, anything short of cooked socks and ashtray vapes good to my smoker's sensibility:p. hehe.
 

billherbst

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As I approach my three-year vaping anniversary next month, a revolution in my vaping is well underway.

The combined power of DIY and home-brewed natural extracts has taken over my personal world-o’-vaping.

The profligate spending on retail juices that characterized my first two years of vaping has, over the past year, dwindled to a mere pittance, just the rare impulse buy or occasional restocking of a retail juice I love. My days of reading juice reviews and window-shopping online at juice vendor sites have ground to a complete halt, however. In part, this is a natural process: How much juice can one person buy? My juice stash is huge---I have many liters more retail juice than I could ever vape. I mean, there comes a point where it's overkill to order yet another retail bottle of a given juice flavor or blend just because some reviewer loved it when one already has many bottles of the same or a very similar flavor from other vendors.

DIY had a long learning curve for me. I’m good at math, so mixing was never a problem, but understanding flavorings---especially in determining how much to use---took awhile. As with so many things, however, practice paid off. (If you want to understand something, do a lot of it…) Now I DIY like a pro, or at least a semi-pro. I may not be an ultimo-creative artisan eliquid alchemist, but I know how to mix up a tasty DIY juice and do so regularly. Many retail juices that were past favorites of mine have been replaced by DIY clones that I concocted and like just as well.

Yes, to some extent buying flavorings has replaced buying juices---I now have 350 bottles of flavorings---but flavoring concentrates are generally cheaper than retail juice. The amount I’ve spent on flavorings, bases, and liquid nic is only a third of what I blew on retail juices, and I have enough ingredients stockpiled to make juice for the next ten years. LOL.

But DIY alone cannot account for the revolution. Home-brewed natural extracts are what pushed the change to critical mass. Since the spring, I’ve done nine natural extracts---six tobaccos and three coffees. Of those, five of the tobaccos and one of the coffees have been stunning successes. Two others were near-misses, and only one (cold coffee extract) was a complete fail. Anyway, two out of three isn’t a bad batting average. (I wish I’d done that well buying retail juice. LOL.) What the heck, making natural extract is even cheaper than buying flavorings. My method for making NETs is almost certainly not as high-tech as Ahlusion or Want2Vape uses, and I haven't ventured into fruit extracts (think Highbrow), but what I do is simple and easy, and it works.

Yes, I still vape certain retail juices. Mostly, however, what my retail juice stash is good for nowadays is Frankenjuicing---mixing retail liquids with DIY juices or homemade extracts to create hybrid blends. Hybrid tobaccos using both NET and synthetics offer a whole world of possibilities.

Thanks again to Scarf-ace, who plunged fearlessly into home-made extracts. Her early success and generosity in sharing gave me the gumption to dive in myself.
 
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