Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol

[Upinsmoke]

I want to talk about death and taxes.
I know, I can't avoid them.
In an effort to avoid meeting the former too soon, one might have reason to hope for a reduction on the latter .

Back in my smoking and drinking days I accepted the contract.
Living in a country that provides health care from taxation, the state had a valid reason to tax my unhealthy habits.
Now I'm a born again clean living vaper should the state still have the right to tax me as before.

When it comes to the alcohol for my NETs the answer is no.
Duty on a litre of alcohol in the UK is £28 , making a 40% bottle of vodka £8.40 in duty for 750 ml.
I can buy my alcohol 95% for £15 .
Duty is not applied as it is sold for use in cooking and herbal tinctures.

Good, we're getting somewhere.

Now my tabacco.
Duty is levied on smoking tabacco at £114 / Kg for pipe tabacco.
Tabacco not sold for smoking is free of duty. In theory.
Everyone knows the revenue men are basically the mafia without a moral code.

A company in Wales tried to set up a business selling whole leaf tabacco which should be free of duty. Ha ha.
No dice.

This got me a thinking.
What if the tabacco was made unsmokable by being sold like a herbal tincture.
If the tabacco was sold immersed in PGA the alcohol would be undrinkable and the tabacco could not be smoked.

I wonder how HMRC would react.

 

[Fredman1]

I'm in New Zealand. vaping has been legalized here. They are raising taxes yearly on tobacco. They made a commitment to have the country smokefree by 2023 (or there abouts).
When I brought in tobacco on the plane I had to pay rediculious tax and duty. I had a chat with the customs agent and explained I want to use it to make e liquid. I'm working with the governments commitments I said. I stopped smoking and started vaping, and should be supported on that. How can they tax me on smoking if i'm actually vaping....?
In the end he agreed that is a grey area, and exempted me from paying tax...

 

[Upinsmoke]

I'm in New Zealand. Vaping has been legalized here. They are raising taxes yearly on tobacco. They made a commitment to have the country smokefree by 2023 (or there abouts).
When I brought in tobacco on the plane I had to pay rediculious tax and duty. I had a chat with the customs agent and explained I want to use it to make e liquid. I'm working with the governments commitments I said. I stopped smoking and started vaping, and should be supported on that. How can they tax me on smoking if i'm actually vaping....?
In the end he agreed that is a grey area, and exempted me from paying tax...

Such understanding would never happen here.
Since the introduction of TPD the U.K. tax authorities have as usual gold plated this EU legislation to include leaf tabacco.

Excise Notice 2003: Tobacco Duty - the Raw Tobacco Approval Scheme - GOV.UK

This gem makes for some pretty miserable reading.

 

[Fredman1]

I do think it will happen.... in time. Right now they're all in awewonder and are shockedjealous of us, because we're getting all this attention, and they see it as their duty to play Mom an Pop.... They obviously can see how we're all exuding pleasure and we have that satisfying relief of discovering a good/better substitute to the old nasty smoke habit we used to pestify them with ...
I think as time rolls by and the stats roll in, they'll start coming around. They better be, cause we're not going anywhere...
Plz see the video in General Vaping I posted. Its under the heading "Another doctor talks vape". Its the best 16 min vape video i've seen...!

 

[nostradadus]

Excited to get back to doing Ethanol macerations. Just took some War Horse Green out of the pot... now, for the long wait! I figure I'd give this one 6 months or so before she's processed. Perhaps it'll be my after Turkey Day vape on the veranda with a hot cup of coffee!

The War Horse Green turned out really, really nice. For those who like anise, tonquin and/or cocoa notes in their NET vape, it is a must try tobacco. The woody, suitably smokey quality of the Dark Fire Kentucky is fairly prominent, but doesn’t take over the whole scene. There is a sweet note to this extract, but it is not distracting or cloying; could be the Virginia coming to the front.

This extract makes for a nice “tastebud reset mix” when you’re just tired of the usual.

 

[Upinsmoke]

Here's my new set up.
It's a sous vide wand.
It has a fan that circulates the water and heats , accurate to + or - 1°C
The only draw back is you cannot cover the pan so you have to keep topping up the water. Over a 12 hour cook that's a couple of pints of water.
The eagle eyed amongst you will notice a 56mm socket sitting on the jar of NET.
It makes a good weight to stop the jar from trying to float.
The tabacco for her maiden voyage is Dunhill Nightcap.
Up till now my hot soaks have been most unscientific.
My herbalist tells me constant temperature is an important factor in extraction.
On Str8s advice I have cooked at 75°C.
That's all folks.

 

[Str8vision]

Very innovative setup @Upinsmoke Let us know how it turns out.

 

[Str8vision]

I want to talk about death and taxes.
I know, I can't avoid them.
In an effort to avoid meeting the former too soon, one might have reason to hope for a reduction on the latter....

Unfortunately, death is inevitable, but the applicability of specific types of taxes is far less....certain. Some taxes are completely avoidable for those who pay attention, plan ahead and are willing to put forth a small amount of effort.

I vape about 60ml of NET each week. If I purchased it retail, 60ml of NET would currently cost me between $25 and $60 depending on the vendor (brand). If I lived in Minnesota, Pennsylvania, DC, Kansas, Alaska, Illinois, California or one of an increasing number of U.S. states/cities that have imposed special vaping taxes, I would end up paying -far more- than the price listed on vendor's websites. In Minnesota (95% wholesale vape tax) I'd end up spending between $40 and $100 dollars for a weeks worth (60ml) of NET. In Chicago Illinois ($0.55 per ml tax) it'd cost between $60 and $92 for the same 60ml. It doesn't stop there, the party hasn't even started yet. Each year dozens of state and local governments introduce new proposed vape taxes. Some pass and some don't but those that don't simply try again the next year and will continue doing so until they finally succeed. In the U.S., for those currently untaxed it's not a matter of if, but "when". Fortunately, I make my own NET. It costs me about $1.70 to make 60ml @ 8mg. Because I make my own I can avoid paying draconian vape taxes entirely. True, one third of my cost to make NET is alcohol and tobacco taxes but I'll gladly pay the $0.60 in alcohol and tobacco taxes to avoid paying $20 to $50 more in special vape taxes each week. I get the added benefit of avoiding retail NET's high profit margins, a win-win situation.

I vape 3 liters of NET each year. It costs me around $100 to make a years worth, $30 of that is alcohol and tobacco taxes. If I purchased that much NET from retail vendors and had to pay special vape taxes It would cost me several thousand dollars each year. Then there's the FDA. Imagine what the retail price of juice will be if/when the FDA's deeming regulations finally kick in. The ridiculous cost of compliance will simply be passed on to consumers by way of higher retail prices. Don't forget that any price increase will itself be subject to special vape taxes which in many cases will effectively double the increase. Financial impact of the deeming regulations combined with ever increasing/expanding vape taxes could usher in juice prices over $2 per ml while low volume sellers (like NETs) might become casualties and disappear from the marketplace. It's a slow motion train wreck that actually began in 2007.

This is why back in 2012 (when I started vaping) I set out to learn how to make my own NETs. I realized that only by becoming the manufacturer could I remove government from the equation. No matter what rules, taxes or restrictions the government might impose, my costs (and availability) will remain the same, locked in at $100 per year. By paying attention, planning ahead and taking action I've removed the government's ability to extort $$$ from me just because I chose to vape instead of smoke. Instead of handing them thousands of dollars each year I've substituted a one finger salute and a rather smirky grin. They're welcome to as much of that as they might want.

 

[yourgurnard]

Well, after passively following this Thread from its inception....I FINALLY have some 'moonshine' to play with!!!!
Last week, My Polish son-in-law arrived to '..celebrate Father's Day..' (4 days late but wth!..), My present?..approx. 250ml. of His freshly distilled ' Bemberek' 90 pc.
Yes, We drunk some (!) but I now have a small 5g. of Dunhill's 'Elizabethan Mix' soaking!
How long's recommended for a cold maceration?

...Quoting Meself (saves typing!!!)...
I'm really gonna rip into My s-in-l when I see Him at Christmas!....90 pc?!..Yeah right!
2 days in the freezer & My extract's slush!!!! To be fair, a lot of cr4p has settled out but it should n't have frozen! 6 months!!!!

 

[Str8vision]

...Quoting Meself (saves typing!!!)...
I'm really gonna rip into My s-in-l when I see Him at Christmas!....90 pc?!..Yeah right!
2 days in the freezer & My extract's slush!!!! To be fair, a lot of cr4p has settled out but it should n't have frozen! 6 months!!!!

If there's slush there's lots of water present. Sounds like he may have confused 90 proof with being 90%?

When I performed the extraction experiment using 151 proof PGA (25% water) the extract had no visible ice crystals even at -20F. I store my wife's 80 proof Absolut Citron Vodka in the freezer and it develops a lot of ice crystals at those temperatures.

 

[happy valley]

Season greetings fellow NET mixers! Been busy but do pop in from time to time.Thanks to all for the inspiration and showing the way. Merry Christmas 2017!

 

[Fredman1]

Well I eventually received my molucular sieves I ordered from China. (very reasonably priced I might add). After about a month wait, I emailed them and they promptly sent me another with a tracking number...they both arrived within a week. I only used 500g.
I had 1 liter of Ethanol at 54%.
I washed the 500g of sieves properly and dried it overnight. Next day I heated the oven to 250C and left it for 2 hrs. The first soaking (left it overnight) pushed it up to 60%, but it left me with about 600ml ethanol left.
I left the sieves in the sun for a day and baked it again as above. The next soaking only pushed it up to 64%, but left me with only 400ml ethanol. Its cloudy as hell to. There is a layer of sediment on the bottom. My logic told me to abandon the whole thing because IF i'm somehow lucky and get to 90%, i'll just have a sludge left...
That left me with the conclusion that the sieves aren't up to standard. The question left is how do one know the difference between good and not good molucular sieves?
I since got hold of 92% and the guy says if can push it up to 95+%, so the exitement is once again building.

 

[Fredman1]

Oh this is the stuff I used..

 

[Str8vision]

Well I eventually received my molucular sieves I ordered from China..........

When I used 500g of molecular sieves on 1.5 liters of 190 proof PGA (95% ethanol) I lost about 110ml of liquid total, around 70ml of that was the water I removed and perhaps 10ml was lost during filtration (1 micron).

I Don't think the sieves you have are usable, sounds like they're absorbing a lot of the ethanol too which indicates an inconsistent pore size. Quality matters because if the pore size of the sieves is inconsistent (low quality sieves) with some pores being larger than 3A, in addition to water they can also absorb/hold some of the ethanol. A consistent 3A pore size is critical because it allows the smaller water molecules to enter but not the larger ethanol molecules, the only ethanol loss should be what clings to the surface of the sieves.

Good to hear you have a source for 92% or 95% ethanol, that should be adequate for the intended purpose. I've tried 100% ethanol and personally didn't find it any better than 95% ethanol for extracting tobacco.

 

[DanR]

Hot ethanol extraction produces a more robust, wider spectrum tobacco flavor. In addition to the brighter flavor notes that ethanol alone produces, hot processing also provides the deeper, richer notes cold processing lacks. I've only extracted four different tobacco blends using this method but all turned out quite exceptional, better than well aged PG, VG, and "cold" ethanol extractions of the same tobacco blends.

Prepare a hot bath with water temperature set at 160F (71C). Ethanol boils at 173F (78C), so make sure the process temperature stays below 170F (77C). I use a crock pot set on "warm" but a thermostatically controlled hot plate would work as long as it is accurate.

Place shredded tobacco in a glass container, pour in enough ethanol to completely cover the tobacco plus 5 - 10% extra for absorption. I use half pint canning jars (jelly jars), which work quite well. Lightly seal the container and place it in the hot water bath, add enough warm water to the bath to match the level of ethanol inside the container. Process for 12 hours, check periodically and add water to the bath if needed.

Put a coffee filter inside a funnel and place the funnel in a clean glass container. Dump the tobacco and ethanol into the coffee filter. Gather/fold the edges of the coffee filter together encapsulating the tobacco inside and gently squeeze to release/recover most of the ethanol. Discard the tobacco and filter. Lightly seal the glass container and place it in a freezer for 24 - 48 hours. Ethanol won't freeze, it just gets cold. The waxes and oils pulled from the tobacco will stratify at the bottom of the container.

Put a coffee filter inside a funnel and place the funnel in a clean glass container. Retrieve the ethanol from the freezer and gently pour it into the coffee filter while still cold. Don't squeeze the filter this time, just discard it. Now your extract can be filtered to whatever level you prefer, I currently use 1 micron borosilicate glass filter paper.

I use the ethanol extract at 7% as a flavoring but you could also transfer the flavor from the ethanol to either PG or VG. Do this by adding/mixing an equal amount of PG or VG to the ethanol, heat the uncovered mix to 150F and allow the ethanol to evaporate.

In one way I completely understand what your doing, but in other ways I don't. What I'm looking for is this: Get some tobacco leaves, taking out what ever I can, to the point of being able to vape it. However, the interesting part is, I only vape 3mg of nic, and would love to know how to add flavor to the mix. Can you help? Should also make a video and post it in youtube step by step.

 

[Fredman1]

Should also make a video and post it in youtube step by step.

That would be fantastic

 

[Upinsmoke]

Watch out PewDiePie Str8vision is coming for ya !

 

[Str8vision]

......Should also make a video and post it in youtube step by step.

I've actually thought about making a step-by-step how-to video but I don't really have the gear needed to do so. I do think it'd be easier to learn extraction techniques by watching an instructional video rather than just reading about it.

In one way I completely understand what your doing, but in other ways I don't.....Can you help?

What parts do you need help understanding? Also, you can PM me for assistance or clarification/explanations, many people do.

 

[thedesbois]

Hello all!

I'm new to this thread. Read parts of it. Enough to understand Str8vision's ever evolving method. I think.

Did my first extraction using heated ethanol. Only step I was not aware of was the newly added soaking period prior to the 12 hrs heat extraction. Oh well.

Did a Romeo y Julieta Romeo #! cigar. 8 g of tobacco. Didn't reduce since I was doing such a small batch. Results are amazing! I had done an extract with the very same cigar 3 years ago (Crockpot maceration in VG, rough filtration with coffee filters and no winterization/freeze filtering). Tasted good but lacked a bit of punch. Gunked the coils like nothing I've ever vaped.

Now with the same cigar using heated ethanol process... I got a much better extract. Same general taste but with more "punch" for lack of a better word. And coil gunk? OMFG! Less than most custards synthetic juices!

Did a 2nd one with pipe tobacco. Mac Baren Vanilla Cream. Same exact process. Smells good, inhale is ok but exhale just tastes like... a cigarette. Nothing special. I'm guessing it's the tobacco. Will let it age and see.

Just tried another adapted technique. Same Mac Baren. Did a soaking for one hour in magnetic stirred with heat at 70C. Then moved this in Ultrasonic bath at 70C. Did a one hour ultrasonic on this one instead of the 12 hours heat only. Ultrasonic bath is a 1L 50W @ 40Khz. God the reagent bottle was hot! Way above 70C. Probably above the boiling temperature of ethanol. When I opened it, it kinda fizzed like a shaken soda bottle. And some gas escaped. So I guess part of the 60 minutes where done above ethanol boiling temperature and under some pressure. Coarse filtering is done and extract is now in freezer for 3 days. Will report back if you guys are interested.

 

[DanR]

There is a video now on youtube on how to do the cold method. Tomorrow (I hope) to get part 2 up on how to strain the stuff, as I've already done one jar.

Here is the link to it.