The costs of running this huge site are paid for by ads. Please consider registering and becoming a Supporting Member for an ad-free experience. Thanks, ECF team.

Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol

Discussion in 'Liquid Extraction From Tobacco' started by Str8vision, Apr 10, 2015.

Image has been removed.
URL has been removed.
Email address has been removed.
Media has been removed.
  1. Str8vision

    Str8vision Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2013
    Sallisaw, Oklahoma USA
    Hot ethanol extraction produces a more robust, wider spectrum tobacco flavor. In addition to the brighter flavor notes that ethanol alone produces, hot processing also provides the deeper, richer notes cold processing lacks. I've only extracted four different tobacco blends using this method but all turned out quite exceptional, better than well aged PG, VG, and "cold" ethanol extractions of the same tobacco blends.

    Prepare a hot bath with water temperature set at 160F (71C). Ethanol boils at 173F (78C), so make sure the process temperature stays below 170F (77C). I use a crock pot set on "warm" but a thermostatically controlled hot plate would work as long as it is accurate.

    Place shredded tobacco in a glass container, pour in enough ethanol to completely cover the tobacco plus 5 - 10% extra for absorption. I use half pint canning jars (jelly jars), which work quite well. Lightly seal the container and place it in the hot water bath, add enough warm water to the bath to match the level of ethanol inside the container. Process for 12 hours, check periodically and add water to the bath if needed.

    Put a coffee filter inside a funnel and place the funnel in a clean glass container. Dump the tobacco and ethanol into the coffee filter. Gather/fold the edges of the coffee filter together encapsulating the tobacco inside and gently squeeze to release/recover most of the ethanol. Discard the tobacco and filter. Lightly seal the glass container and place it in a freezer for 24 - 48 hours. Ethanol won't freeze, it just gets cold. The waxes and oils pulled from the tobacco will stratify at the bottom of the container.

    Put a coffee filter inside a funnel and place the funnel in a clean glass container. Retrieve the ethanol from the freezer and gently pour it into the coffee filter while still cold. Don't squeeze the filter this time, just discard it. Now your extract can be filtered to whatever level you prefer, I currently use 1 micron borosilicate glass filter paper.

    I use the ethanol extract at 7% as a flavoring but you could also transfer the flavor from the ethanol to either PG or VG. Do this by adding/mixing an equal amount of PG or VG to the ethanol, heat the uncovered mix to 150F and allow the ethanol to evaporate.
     
    • Like Like x 8
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. pantoporos aporos

    pantoporos aporos Full Member

    Feb 25, 2015
    Thank you for sharing this technique! Out of curiosity, should one expect a higher amount of nicotine or other alkaloids to be extracted with this technique?
     
  3. twgbonehead

    twgbonehead Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Apr 28, 2011
    MA, USA
    I too am curious; what is the intent of this extraction? Tobacco flavor, nicotine, alkaloids, all of the above?

    I would also strongly suggest that this be done outside! If everything goes as planned this is likely to be a safe procedure, but if something goes wrong this could end up quite badly....
     
  4. Str8vision

    Str8vision Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2013
    Sallisaw, Oklahoma USA
    Sharing is what this sub forum is all about, advancing/exploring the art of home extraction. I extract for flavor. A recent lab analysis on NET indicates our methods of "flavor" extraction yield little or no measurable nicotine. I have no reason to believe ethanol would be any more effective than PG or VG for leeching nicotine from tobacco but don't know for certain. Alkaloids may be a different story but without a comprehensive lab analysis I have no way of knowing for certain. What I do know is ethanol produces extracts that are - distinctly - different in flavor and "feel" from any other solvent I've used which is why I continue to experiment with it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Str8vision

    Str8vision Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2013
    Sallisaw, Oklahoma USA
    Flavor is the only goal in any of my experiments/extractions. By the time it's mixed and ready to vape I doubt there would be more than a trace amount of nicotine present. Alkaloids are different matter but I'm unsure what alkaloid content might be present in a hot ethanol extraction.
     
  6. Bagazo

    Bagazo Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 19, 2009
  7. Str8vision

    Str8vision Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2013
    Sallisaw, Oklahoma USA

    That's the report I posted on last week but you might want to read the part concerning nicotine again.

    Dr Farsalinos abstract;
    "The study verified that tobacco-derived toxins are lower by orders of magnitude in e-liquids compared to tobacco products. Characteristically, nitrosamines were 146-1447 times lower in e-liquids compared to tobacco products (in 1 mL liquid compared to 1 gram of tobacco), while nitrate was 1360 times lower. NET liquids contained somewhat higher levels of tobacco-derived toxins compared to conventional e-liquids, but the levels were still significantly lower compared to tobacco. Deviation from labeled nicotine content was on average 5.9% for conventional e-liquids and 1.5% for NETs, with maximum deviation being 22.1%. Interestingly, no difference between conventional liquids and NETs were observed, indicating that the flavor extraction process does not lead to extraction of nicotine from the tobacco leaves."
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. usr/

    usr/ Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 17, 2013
    N. Alabama
    Was wondering what tobacco blends you used and did you choose them specifically for this process? Thanks again for sharing your work!
     
  9. Str8vision

    Str8vision Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2013
    Sallisaw, Oklahoma USA
    Sutliff Voodoo Queen, Dunhill NightCap, Cornell & Diehl Billy Budd and The Smoker St. James. I used these blends because I have an ample supply of them, they are some of my personal favorites for extraction. When testing "new" extraction methods I like to use tobacco blends I know well and have comparative well aged samples of from other extraction methods to judge the results by.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Emily Blunt

    Emily Blunt Moved On

    Apr 4, 2015
    USA
    I think tobacco is not at all good for the health.This if used in the e-cig then what is the benefit.We can use normal cigarettes.
     
  11. Bagazo

    Bagazo Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 19, 2009
    Maybe I'm reading that wrong but it seems that commercial liquids flavored with NETs were used. I'm not sure if those can be considered NETs like we are making. The reason I say this is because this study on whole tobacco leaf and stems resulted in 40-45% of the nicotine in the tobacco being extracted after a single 30 min water extraction and 88% extraction with succesive extracts.

    Water, PG and VG are all polar solvents and ethanol has both a polar and nonpolar side (making it a better solvent) so they should all do a similar job of extracting nicotine.

    There should be nicotine in NETs unless the commercial outfits are doing something different.
     
  12. pantoporos aporos

    pantoporos aporos Full Member

    Feb 25, 2015
    It seems that the thing to do would be to test the nicotine content of our NETs. I am trying to do that with a kit from eliquidtest.com but am having a bit of trouble: the liquid is so strongly colored that it's hard to see much on terms of color. What I do see is a small yellow area immediately around the puddle where the nicotine test solution meets the e liquid, but upon mixing it blends in with the dark amber color of the NET. this is true regardless of amount of solution used, which I took to indicate little to no nicotine.
     
  13. pantoporos aporos

    pantoporos aporos Full Member

    Feb 25, 2015
    I just re-tested some of my extracts, but I don't want to de-rail str8vision's thread, so I've posted my findings here.
     
  14. gt_1955

    gt_1955 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 25, 2012
    South Australia
    When I first started extracting flavour from tobacco using the cold maceration process, I found that you couldn't use a nicotine test that relied on colour change because of the colour of the extraction (mine was a 90+ day extraction). Extracting using Str8Vision's method may be different in allowing you to detect the colour change, but I don't know. And unless this method extracts more nicotine than cold extraction, I wouldn't count on extracting any more than between 1 and 2mg/ml. To me, that is irrelevant as we are trying to extract flavour only.

    To extract more nicotine (or the other alkaloids), I imagine you would need to perform an acid/base extraction.
     
  15. twgbonehead

    twgbonehead Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Apr 28, 2011
    MA, USA
    Actually, the methods listed in the paper cited by Bagazo are an acid/base extraction (perhaps more accurately, a base/acid extraction). The water used for the extraction is alkaline (using ammonia, lime, or lye), and even so, the resulting liquid only gets to about 1% nicotine. (It extracts a high percentage of the nicotine from the tobacco, but needs a lot of water to do this, so the resulting solution is dilute). They then acidify the water, and distill it. From the paper:

     
  16. Str8vision

    Str8vision Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2013
    Sallisaw, Oklahoma USA
    The point is this; Historically we have learned that - everything - is toxic, it is only the dose that seperates the toxic from the non-toxic. Nicotine is a deadly poison but in small doseage is little more than an addictive stimulant. Even water is toxic (dilutional hyponatremia), if a large amount is consumed in a relatively short period of time yet harmless and benificial at smaller doses. According to recent a comprehensive lab analysis the NET we make is hundreds of times less toxic that the tobacco it was derived from. To put it a different way, I can vape NET for an entire year and still not be exposed to the level of toxins a smoker is in a single day. Not to mention since we aren't burning the tobacco the heavy carcinogens associated with "smoking" aren't generated in the first place. That same lab report found very little difference between NET and conventional (synthetic), e-liquid from a toxilogical stand point.
     
  17. Str8vision

    Str8vision Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2013
    Sallisaw, Oklahoma USA

    Clay at NET.com, Diane at MVJ, Nick at GEJ and most all commercial NET manufacturers extract flavor from tobacco using the same methods we do, cold and heat assisted simple soaks. All use 20 - 25% tobacco extract to make their NET, some do offer "flavored" NET (added caramel, vanilla, cherry etc..), but even those contain the same % of tobacco extracts. All offer their NET at 0mg nic because there literally isn't but trace amounts present unless they add it. That is what the lab analysis found, NET made with our simple soak tobacco extracts contains little if any nicotine. However, I personally believe our extraction methods do actually leech "some" nicotine from the tobacco. While this may seem/sound contradictory it actually isn't, the explanation is in the math.

    Last year I extracted the tobacco contained in a single pack of Marlboro 100's, it yielded 110ml of extract. That extract, mixed as a flavoring at 20%, yielded 550ml of ready to vape NET, enough to last most people several months. To put it a different way, what a smoker consumes in a single day takes someone vaping NET several months to consume.

    Even if our extraction methods were somewhat effective at leeching nicotine from the tobacco, it would still take us "several months" to consume what little nicotine we are able to extract from a single pack of cigarettes that's the math of the situation. To make matters worse, the pipe tobaccos we normally use for extraction contain far less nicotine than does the "chemically enhanced/modified" cigarette tobaccos. The good news is they also contain - significantly - fewer toxic chemicals.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Bagazo

    Bagazo Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 19, 2009
    Hard to say which method extracts more and how much when it isn't being tested. Also nic in tobacco is in salt form, 85% of it from what I remember reading. The test kits available only test for freebase nic so that can make a huge difference in the results.

    Lets also not forget to take into account tobacco/liquid ratio.

    Not all of us.

    Acid/base extraction is used to clean up the alkaloids after the initial extraction. It won't get you more nic than what was extracted in the first soak. Actually you loose a bit every time you from acid to base or back although using less liquid in subsequent extractions can give you a higher concentration.
     
  19. Bagazo

    Bagazo Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 19, 2009
    Right now I'm vaping the extract of 2 Marlboros in 1 ml of 50/50. It feels nice, not quite there but much better then nic only juice. The problem is the gunk.

    So, you got 27.5ml per cig and I got .5ml. That is a big difference. I know that those making NETs for flavor only can toss caution to the wind because the tobacco/solvent ratio makes the mg/ml negligible.

    I think that saying that NET methods don't extract nic is incorrect and it sidelines those who are after nic and other alkaloids from DIY NETs.

    I don't really buy into the whole toxic chemical meme. The results for nic given here show nic content of cigs to be 1.23-1.8% and pipe tobaccos to be 3.82%. I'm seeing nic content for base pipe tobaccos as high as 5%.

    One of the major points of the study I posted was to extract nicotine from waste as well as from whole leaf, leaving the leaf intact, to make low nic cigs and be able to sell the extra nic to patch and gum makers.

    Kind of funny observation but lately I have been using homemade snuff and the hit from a pinch in each nostril can be felt in seconds. Don't know if mucus is a better solvent but whatever the case, it does show the speed with which alkaloids leech out of tobacco.
     
  20. Bagazo

    Bagazo Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 19, 2009
    Actually the part of the document where you took that text from is the intro, where they go over the existing methods that they researched.

    The study is actually focused on the extraction and doesn't describe any method for concentrating or purifying the extract.
     

Share This Page