Smoking Everwhere's new full page ad:

[aditas]

The analogy is lost on me. What part of nicotine being classified as a drug confuses you? For what it's worth I agree it shouldn't be so, but I had nothing to do with the decision, Judge Kessler decided this in the late 1990s.

1990s ~= decade ago hence nicotine is no longer a NEW drug

 

[dragonpuff]

I was afraid that my point did not come out clear (explains my C average in English class). Anyway, IMO an e-cig is as much a drug as a fossil cigarette is, as much as a glass of whiskey is and as much as a pack of gum is. If these items are considered drugs then considering e-ciggies as such is consistent.
However, it is clear to me that gum, alcohol and smokes are not drugs. Do we have agreement here?

If we do then e-cigarettes are not drug. They are smoking cessation products just like Mountain Dew is a cola cessation product. You get all the caffeine without the dark artificial colors.

So you are saying that because you decided (without stating any basis for such a decision) that these items are not drugs, then everyone else should automatically agree with you?

I think you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone agreeing with you on this one.

 

[ladyraj]

1990s ~= decade ago hence nicotine is no longer a NEW drug

A new method for drug delivery is what the FDA contends, not that nicotine is a new drug.

 

[aditas]

So you are saying that because you decided (without stating any basis for such a decision) that these items are not drugs, then everyone else should automatically agree with you?

I think you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone agreeing with you on this one.

Not at all. I used my brainpower and decided for myself. I clicked on a link and the UPS man brought me the product. I am happy.
You may decide not to consume. Don't click on the website no visit from the UPS man. You're happy.
Win for me and Win for you.

Now, explain to me what is wrong with the current situation that needs changing?

 

[MrKai]

In all seriousness...if FDA was actively seeking a ban on eCigs they would not needed to wait for Smoking Everywhere's impropriety. A year's worth of complaints and 'kitchen chem' on this very site alone would have done the trick

That said, make sure you've got what you need, y'all. All I am sayin'

 

[stevo_tdo]

I have done 6 years worth of extensive "unofficial" research on the FDA and drugs that are/have been approved for the market. Some of what I discovered made my hair stand on end. I'm going to refrain from getting into specifics for two reasons:

1. Anyone who cares to look deeply can find all kinds of information for themselves
2. I have no desire to start WWIII

I have come to the conclusion, through much research, that FDA approval cannot be considered a stamp of safety in any way, shape, or form.

Anyway, just more of my .02 (pretty soon I'm going to be broke )

I agree completely. I have schizophrenia, with that said, I don't believe the beneits of the medicines used to treat it "outweigh the risks" they like to say.

I have have all the classic symptoms of schizophrenia, but are lactating (i'm a guy), an erection lasting over 4 hours that needs medical intervention, Irreversible joint and muscle degeration, loss of vision, cancer, liver damage, etc. worth not hearing voices anymore. ( these are only the tip of the iceberg and all of them are from the side effects list of many meds I have taken)

I gladly continue to hear voices. I know when they are real and not real.

 

[ladyraj]

Not at all. I used my brainpower and decided for myself. I clicked on a link and the UPS man brought me the product. I am happy.
You may decide not to consume. Don't click on the website no visit from the UPS man. You're happy.
Win for me and Win for you.

Now, explain to me what is wrong with the current situation that needs changing?

Shipments are being blocked or seized. Once the lawsuit is decided...this situation can become worse. Small shipments may get thru but eventually neither the suppliers or buyers want to bring the enforcement of the FDA down on their heads. I'm stocking up and will hope the modders will continue their efforts.

 

[aditas]

A new method for drug delivery is what the FDA contends, not that nicotine is a new drug.

I have to concede that point. Of course it is obvious it is a made up definition, one that proves the FDA has an ulterior motive.

 

[aditas]

Shipments are being blocked or seized. Once the lawsuit is decided...this situation can become worse. Small shipments may get thru but eventually neither the suppliers or buyers want to bring the enforcement of the FDA down on their heads. I'm stocking up and will hope the modders will continue their efforts.

Unlawfully I presume. "Help help I'm being oppressed". "Did you see that guy oppressing me". "just now".
We don't have to physically pick up a pitchfork to fight oppression. A simple acknowledgment that it is happening is enough.

 

[dragonpuff]

I agree completely. I have schizophrenia, with that said, I don't believe the beneits of the medicines used to treat it "outweigh the risks" they like to say.

I have have all the classic symptoms of schizophrenia, but are lactating (i'm a guy), an erection lasting over 4 hours that needs medical intervention, Irreversible joint and muscle degeration, loss of vision, cancer, liver damage, etc. worth not hearing voices anymore. ( these are only the tip of the iceberg and all of them are from the side effects list of many meds I have taken)

I gladly continue to hear voices. I know when they are real and not real.

Man, the way i see it, if you can live with less meds and more voices than kudos to you! It's really ridiculous when they try to medicate away every symptom, as if you must still need help just because your brain works differently from theirs.

After several years of "trying" many meds and med combos (different condition, same problem), i find myself doing very well on only one med combined with nicotine i still have some difficulties, but you learn to live with yourself after awhile

Not at all. I used my brainpower and decided for myself. I clicked on a link and the UPS man brought me the product. I am happy.
You may decide not to consume. Don't click on the website no visit from the UPS man. You're happy.
Win for me and Win for you.

Now, explain to me what is wrong with the current situation that needs changing?

For what it's worth, i am certain nicotine IS a drug, and yet i still choose to consume. Why? Just because it is a drug does not mean it is inherently bad, that's why. No black and white thinking here, just gray all around

 

[PlanetScribbles]

The fact of the matter is that it matters not one iota what is morally right or wrong. The FDA will try to use the jackass that is 'the law' to get their own way.
The law overrides morality, and for that matter all common sense. The law is merely the representations of those who have priorities that take precidence over what makes sense or what is in the best interests of the general populous. Laws are written in the US to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
You can argue all you want, but the fact is that the FDA have daggers out for e-cigs and it will be an uphill battle to beat them.

Those are the facts of the case, and they are undisputed.

 

[Scooter Bob]

"Isn't anyone else blown away by the fact that a company cannot make the claim that this is used for smoking cessation and/or is a healthier alternative to smoking even though it IS true without running afoul of "the law"? Does anyone else realize how utterly absurd this is?"

I for one am totally astounded by this fact, and was about to make an independent thread topic out of your statement content. When the FDA and the gov't knee jerk against something so amazing, while at the same time they allow and have subsidized tobacco, only leads me to believe that it's an insane system we live in. True should be true, and it should be stated out loud,,,the ducking on our parts, in itself, is a false admission that we think it is wrong. Let's say this more directly, "I went on e-cigs two months ago, after slipping off of a cold turkey system on tobacco cirarettes AGAIN. Since then I have vaped when I wanted the action of a cigarette, and have not slipped to a real cigarette, now vaping ZERO nicitene. HONESTLY, it's been the easiest system ever! Why deep-6 that feature? Politics maybe, but be careful because individual denials of truth telling is not good for the soul. How can out own government foster real cigarettes and deny the e-cigs, when the e-cigs immediately cut all tars and other numerous chemicals totally out, all ending in a wonderful result for so many people's health systems? This is loony-tunes and contradicting to "Protect and serve the American people!" Criminal is the best word I can surface. Scooter

 

[MrKai]

"Isn't anyone else blown away by the fact that a company cannot make the claim that this is used for smoking cessation and/or is a healthier alternative to smoking even though it IS true without running afoul of "the law"? Does anyone else realize how utterly absurd this is?"

I for one am totally astounded by this fact, and was about to make an independent thread topic out of your statement content. When the FDA and the gov't knee jerk against something so amazing, while at the same time they allow and have subsidized tobacco, only leads me to believe that it's an insane system we live in. True should be true, and it should be stated out loud...

...and fact are NOT the same thing. They sometimes co-incide, but that is incidental.

If or not you hold something to be true is a personal choice and distinction. Whether or not what you hold to be true is actually based in fact is a whole other thing entirely.

Constantly repeating that the FDA allows cigarettes but not eCigs *is not true* nor *factual*. The FDA, until this year, had virtually no choice or say in the matter whatsoever. It was decided via process of law that they could not...on several grounds ban tobacco products. They still can't.

Are eCigs tobacco products? They are marketed as NOT being tobacco products, hence under the jurisdiction of FDA. Where are the black helis about this? Why do people continuously float this conspiratorial nonsense when the principals involved, until they realized their error, did not?

No one involved has given anyone, ANYONE, a single reason why this product should be treated different than others. They are in court right now, not even making this case.

The case they are making is "well, we *said* it was so-and-so, but it is really such-and-such, so the FDA has no jurisdiction whatsoever."

I mean, not even a viable "public safety" argument...nothing. The principle players at the head of this game are in court, essentially fight for their "right" to essentially be "Big Vapor"...to run a business without oversight, based on unfounded claims and anecdotal "evidence".

SunV, have they even introduced signed affidavits from customers? Anything, outside of a submission from a fairly hastily-formed trade group that *one of the principals involved is chair of*?

Cigarettes were proven to be anything *but* harmful after being sold and marketed for years and years as being anything but. You are telling me it is...reasonable...to believe claims that "the New Cigarette" making essentially the same claims...at face value?

*Really?*

You do not think that being at least...agnostic about this is the most sane course of action?

You honestly don't think a product that makes what can *more than arguably* be considered an "extraordinary claim" shouldn't have to back it up?

Or is the confirmation bias so deep, that this "answer"...the eCig...is a "miracle of modern science, health and technology" that it should get a pass?

It is like I asked in another thread and all of the naysayers have *still* yet to answer:

If the FDA, right now, went out, on their (ok, our taxpayer dime) went out and bought 4 samples of every cart and juice out there, over a 4 week period, and tested them...do you *really* believe the results would be better...or worse?

Think about this...I mean really think about this. Think about both NJOY's actions and Smoking Everywhere's.

If we are truly thinking for ourselves...we shouldn't *stop thinking* when we find the answer we want to hear. That is "truth".

If or not the answer we wanted to hear *is the right one* is the search for fact.


I personally blame the general lack of understanding of this concept to be a failure of our general public education system

-K

 

[PlanetScribbles]

So we have a situation where killer tobacco products are perfectly legal to sell and buy, and harmless vaporising products could well see a wholesale ban across many countries, and your position is that that is a just and correct situation?
What a load of bollox.

 

[TropicalBob]

Thank you, MrKai, for making sense out of the nonsense that preceded your post. My goodness, people, where is the proof -- the scientific proof that is needed -- that this is a "harmless product"? There is no such proof. And that's the major underlying problem for today's situation. So stop making ridiculous statements like that ... Only proof has a hope of approval.

I cannot believe that anyone can't understand e-smoking's problem. And it isn't about tobacco cigs versus e-cigs. That red herring keeps getting tossed around as if all regulators were just too stupid to understand the obvious. It's the posters who don't understand.

Bottom line that some find hard to swallow: We are NOT a nation of people; we are a nation of law. And that's for the best. No question. That's for the best.

 

[IndyColtsfan]

Sadly, I am a Smoking Everywhere victim. I purchased one of their kits for about $80 and bought 2 packs of extra carts for $10 each. Got them home and was fairly let down with the quality of smoke and it didn't do much at all to ease my cravings.

Happened to be on Facebook and saw the Luci advertised, so I ordered one of their kits for $149 thinking it would be better. Got it in and was also fairly let down. That led me to doing some searching on the net, which is where I found the ECF. After spending about 2 days searching and reading posts, I discovered how badly I got suckered!

Bought a 510 the next day and have been very happy since then. I'm now in the process of stocking up on parts, mixing my own liquid, and thinking about trying out some other models like the Chuck, Janty Stick, etc.

So for all the crap that Smoking Everywhere is pushing, they are succeeding in getting the public interested in the e-cig, which is a good thing. It's just a shame that it has to come at such a cost.

 

[PlanetScribbles]

Thank you, MrKai, for making sense out of the nonsense that preceded your post. My goodness, people, where is the proof -- the scientific proof that is needed -- that this is a "harmless product"? There is no such proof. And that's the major underlying problem for today's situation. So stop making ridiculous statements like that ... Only proof has a hope of approval.

I cannot believe that anyone can't understand e-smoking's problem. And it isn't about tobacco cigs versus e-cigs. That red herring keeps getting tossed around as if all regulators were just too stupid to understand the obvious. It's the posters who don't understand.

Bottom line that some find hard to swallow: We are NOT a nation of people; we are a nation of law. And that's for the best. No question. That's for the best.

I agree that due process should take place, but only when needed. We have indisputable proof that tobacco products kill. PERIOD.
How bad can e-cigs be? Certainly not as bad as tobacco. I was born with a brain. I can figure that out for myself without having to wait for years of BS tests to prove what anyone with a brain knows already.

Lets face it. You and I both know that if the US was not a law suit society this wouldn't even be an issue. The concern is about money.

 

[aditas]

Thank you, MrKai, for making sense out of the nonsense that preceded your post. My goodness, people, where is the proof -- the scientific proof that is needed -- that this is a "harmless product"? There is no such proof. And that's the major underlying problem for today's situation. So stop making ridiculous statements like that ... Only proof has a hope of approval.

There is no way any one can convince you that approval is not necessary Is there?

 

[Robert]

The 20 cigs in a cart thing- pisses me off. I hate companys that lie to your face like that.

I never bought SE but I still see why others hate them, but then again.

Smoking Cessasion? They shouldn't say that? But it is exactly what I did!

 

[PlanetScribbles]

Smoking Cessasion? They shouldn't say that? But it is exactly what I did!

It's what I did too, it's also what 60+% of other e-cig users did. BUT ... they are not allowed to be called a smoking cessation product, even though they beat the carp out of all approved cessation products
Anyway, i'm just reiterating what i've already said. I don't like SE's sales tactics, but e-cigs are a life saver for the 400,000 smokers that die every year from smoking tobacco. That is a fact, whether the FDA says it or not.