Smoking Everywhere V. FDA Daily Docket Sheet Update--APPEAL's COURT ISSUES STAY
- Thread starter Sun Vaporer
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Silver and I go back to almost the very beginning of this forum. We both have backed down on post counts ... because this bus runs in circles much of the time. We've read it, heard it, argued it, toasted it, and damned it for more than two years.
Time to let the baby birds stretch their wings while we watch.
Time to let the baby birds stretch their wings while we watch.
Well I do not know about all that. I keep this thread going so people know what is going on with the case as well as answer questions as well as many PMs. from Members.
Out of this thread and the debates there in was formed many good ideas and it has launched many projects and groups.
So IMO there is still a lot of value to posting and I would not color the whole forum with the same brush Trobical Bob.
But then again that is my take---you are entitled to your opinion as well.
Sun
Out of this thread and the debates there in was formed many good ideas and it has launched many projects and groups.
So IMO there is still a lot of value to posting and I would not color the whole forum with the same brush Trobical Bob.
But then again that is my take---you are entitled to your opinion as well.
Sun
Nothing filed today---we await. The FDA's Brief is due to be filed on or before May 24th.
Sun
Sun
KD--After the FDA files, then SE and NJOY will file in June, followed by the Amicus Briefs to be filed by all the Medical Groups in support of the FDA's position and Washington Legal Foundation in support of SE and NJOY's position.
After that, there will be Oral Agrument by the parties and a Decision by the Court will follow.
Sun
One chimp year equals seven human years....or maybe that's for a dog.....whatever !!!
I was hoping that CASAA would join in also. It doesn't look like that's going to happen.
Many thanks Sun.
So considering the speed at which the wheels of justice turn, we could be chewing our nails for at least a couple more months?
KD--I do not expect to see a ruling before November. It really goes to show how "concerned" the Court is with SE and NJOY losing business and possibly going under.---what a shame.
Sun
As sad as this sounds it appears that money is the law.
And much as I appreciate the WLF filing, seems it's gonna be hard to beat a "gang" with virtually unlimited monetary resources and nothing better to do.
The quiteness of all the "big" manufacturers not kicking in, even if they can't afford to go it alone, seems disturbing. maybe they have and no one just has the info.
And much as I appreciate the WLF filing, seems it's gonna be hard to beat a "gang" with virtually unlimited monetary resources and nothing better to do.
The quiteness of all the "big" manufacturers not kicking in, even if they can't afford to go it alone, seems disturbing. maybe they have and no one just has the info.
With all the talk of BIG MONEY behind the 'push' against e-cigs and the last couple of posts I had an interesting thought.
Could it be that since N-Joy and SE are, arguably, the biggest concerns behind e-cigs in America, that BT and/or BP are waiting until one or both dry up with all the legal fees and strangled product flow to the point of going broke. Then they swoop in buying the company(s) for pennies on the dollar, use their influence to flip flop the FDA to allowing e-cigs and then BP &/or BT are the big players in the e-cig business as they are in the analog game.
Just a thought...
Could it be that since N-Joy and SE are, arguably, the biggest concerns behind e-cigs in America, that BT and/or BP are waiting until one or both dry up with all the legal fees and strangled product flow to the point of going broke. Then they swoop in buying the company(s) for pennies on the dollar, use their influence to flip flop the FDA to allowing e-cigs and then BP &/or BT are the big players in the e-cig business as they are in the analog game.
Just a thought...
That's probably what's going to happen, SheerLuck. E-cigs are getting very popular, there's too much money to be made to just ban them.
As long as they can be taxed like cigarettes and they are made by BP or BT, they probably will get the ok from the FDA.
Just my opinion, folks.
As long as they can be taxed like cigarettes and they are made by BP or BT, they probably will get the ok from the FDA.
Just my opinion, folks.
@SLH
There are several other big players apart from SE and NJoy. Many of them are not seen on ECF as their primary market is the new user class of consumer, and ECF visitors are less likely to be their customers.
They tend to be cartomizer-style suppliers, and are successful because they employ good marketing strategies. There is a visible difference between them, and those we are more familiar with here - they employ marketing staff in various disciplines whereas companies here tend to limit their marketing costs. Each group has chosen a different market area.
They are arguably more successful because their profit margins are higher and the new user market is quite large, and growing fast. So, although SE and NJoy are well-known, they are not the only big guys out there. It's just that you won't see the others on ECF as they don't need to be here and it wouldn't benefit them in any case.
As you hint at, BT and BP cannot lose in this situation - it's a win-win for them. If ecigs are killed off, they win; if ecigs are beaten to the floor and have to comply with ridiculous medical regulations, BP wins since their expertise and cost of business in that field are going to be advantageous when 99.9% of ecig companies fold under that regime and can be bought out by BP; if ecigs are beaten to the floor and have to comply with excessive consumer regulations and therefore most ecig companies fold, then BT wins as they can step in and buy them up, bringing out their Marbora E-Cigarette when convenient.
Regulations can be changed at a later stage of course, by the injection of funding into the process. It's a shame that the ecig industry is not injecting funds itself at this critical stage. But ecig supply is basically a cottage industry with a handful of big players who are more interested in cutting each others' throats than cooperating to defeat the opposition.
Each believes that they can survive the onslaught and bounce back, whatever the regulatory climate, because they have the funds to do so. In some cases this is obviously true. It is an attractive commercial option because it means the government kills off all your rivals for you.
If that happens, there will be five or six big names left in business, and the rest of the industry will close up shop for a while. After a time, a massive underground supply system will start up for ecig parts and refills. It will become the new c o c a i n e, and be equally unstoppable but five times the size. Eventually a measurable percentage of the population will have been 'criminalized' and at that stage, change might be expected to take place.
.
There are several other big players apart from SE and NJoy. Many of them are not seen on ECF as their primary market is the new user class of consumer, and ECF visitors are less likely to be their customers.
They tend to be cartomizer-style suppliers, and are successful because they employ good marketing strategies. There is a visible difference between them, and those we are more familiar with here - they employ marketing staff in various disciplines whereas companies here tend to limit their marketing costs. Each group has chosen a different market area.
They are arguably more successful because their profit margins are higher and the new user market is quite large, and growing fast. So, although SE and NJoy are well-known, they are not the only big guys out there. It's just that you won't see the others on ECF as they don't need to be here and it wouldn't benefit them in any case.
As you hint at, BT and BP cannot lose in this situation - it's a win-win for them. If ecigs are killed off, they win; if ecigs are beaten to the floor and have to comply with ridiculous medical regulations, BP wins since their expertise and cost of business in that field are going to be advantageous when 99.9% of ecig companies fold under that regime and can be bought out by BP; if ecigs are beaten to the floor and have to comply with excessive consumer regulations and therefore most ecig companies fold, then BT wins as they can step in and buy them up, bringing out their Marbora E-Cigarette when convenient.
Regulations can be changed at a later stage of course, by the injection of funding into the process. It's a shame that the ecig industry is not injecting funds itself at this critical stage. But ecig supply is basically a cottage industry with a handful of big players who are more interested in cutting each others' throats than cooperating to defeat the opposition.
Each believes that they can survive the onslaught and bounce back, whatever the regulatory climate, because they have the funds to do so. In some cases this is obviously true. It is an attractive commercial option because it means the government kills off all your rivals for you.
If that happens, there will be five or six big names left in business, and the rest of the industry will close up shop for a while. After a time, a massive underground supply system will start up for ecig parts and refills. It will become the new c o c a i n e, and be equally unstoppable but five times the size. Eventually a measurable percentage of the population will have been 'criminalized' and at that stage, change might be expected to take place.
.
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This is an interesting course of events...I thought u all were talking about my ego.
I can say I have never seen egotistical post from sun...Jerryrm on the other hand hehe...
I can say I have never seen egotistical post from sun...Jerryrm on the other hand hehe...
Yes, I guess I really am an Oldie, eh? Although there is strength in numbers of course, I fondly remember the days when there were only a select few of us on this forum !
Thanx Jerry, but that sanity part ? Not so sure I even had that to start with!
Joking aside though, can't follow much of the rest of this forum anymore (apart from the Veterans' area ofcourse
I've said it before and I'll say it again, thanx for all your efforts in keeping us up to date Sun!
Been off tobacco for two years now and it feels great ! E-cigs are true life savers and we need to do all we can to fight for our right to use them !
Cheers (from Down Under),
Silver
Silver: I hope you follow the Campaigning section of the forum, too. We post a lot of links to news articles and blogs where you can leave comments. It is always impressive to see comments left by someone who has been smoking abstinent as long as you.
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