SmokTech Telescope is air tight!

[Butters78]

Great video and I really respect how you care about the community, i subbed your channel.

I really expected you to chuck it against the wall at the end, ha.

 

[gimmieshelter31]

Thank you sense Field for posting this video. Obviously you care for the vaping community and I feel your video is a tremendous contribution to the forum.
I'm on the "not wanting to be nannied" team . I'm also on the "not wanting to be misled to make a dollar" team.
Obviously your video has made an impact as Smoktech is modifying the bottom tube as evidenced in GV's announcement of replacement tubes being rushed in.
Again , thank you for the contribution.

 

[Sense Field]

Thank you Sense Field for posting this video. Obviously you care for the vaping community and I feel your video is a tremendous contribution to the forum.
I'm on the "not wanting to be nannied" team . I'm also on the "not wanting to be misled to make a dollar" team.
Obviously your video has made an impact as Smoktech is modifying the bottom tube as evidenced in GV's announcement of replacement tubes being rushed in.
Again , thank you for the contribution.

Thanks buddy!

I do fear that Smok is not following all the way through with the safety measures they should be adding to the Telescope...vents are a great step forward, but vents only help to prevent the mod being a pipe bomb. Hot springs would help avoid a battery failure all together.

I don't have every mod out there, but I haven't personally seen any mechanical mods without a hot spring. We need them to add those also.

I agree with you, I don't want anyone forcing anything on me, but I also don't want anyone getting hurt.

 

[Sense Field]

Redesign to allow a working HotSpring. Did it non my iPhone, sorry for the messy images.

 

[tj99959]

Sorry to say this but a hot spring would have to be above the battery if you are going to use a plunger type bottom button. If your finger is holding that plunger against the bottom of the battery, all the springs in the world will not change that. The spring must be a link in the electrical ckt to work, and I don't see where that's happening in your drawing.

What material do you plan to make that ledge out of? The PV would on all the time if it's metal.

 

[jerry503]

Thanks buddy!

I do fear that Smok is not following all the way through with the safety measures they should be adding to the Telescope...vents are a great step forward, but vents only help to prevent the mod being a pipe bomb. Hot springs would help avoid a battery failure all together.

I don't have every mod out there, but I haven't personally seen any mechanical mods without a hot spring. We need them to add those also.

I agree with you, I don't want anyone forcing anything on me, but I also don't want anyone getting hurt.

I hadn't thought until recently what a huge company Smoktech has become. I haven't a clue about their unit sales and all that, but at least in terms of how many product lines and products they make, and how many vendors carry their stuff. Just looking at their lineup of mods -- the Bolt, the Vmax a.k.a. Rocket, the VV Gripper, and now the Telescope, and I'm probably missing one or two. Then there's cartos and DCT tanks, their new Stardust- and Vivi-alikes and rebuildable attys, and the list goes on. And with the exception of brand-specific vendors and a few of the higher-end/boutique type sites, good luck finding a vendor anymore that doesn't carry at least some of their line.

Anywhere, I keep reading as to how Smoktech monitors forums such as ecf, and considers that feedback when designing and upgrading their products. I guess it's great that they listen to us, but as large and pervasive as they've become, and especially in light of recent...'Scopegate?...events, I think it would be even better if they did a bit more two-way communication with their end customers. Maybe share directly with us what their product safety policies are, what they're doing to improve them, and like that.

Not saying it'll happen, just wishing it would.

 

[zoiDman]

If anyone is Interested...

There is a Good Discussion going on about Hot Springs/Telescope Designs in this thread

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/gotvapes/322348-battery-info-safety-sticky-3.html#post6936318

It starts at about Post #90 or so.

 

[Sense Field]

Sorry to say this but a hot spring would have to be above the battery if you are going to use a plunger type bottom button. If your finger is holding that plunger against the bottom of the battery, all the springs in the world will not change that. The spring must be a link in the electrical ckt to work, and I don't see where that's happening in your drawing.

What material do you plan to make that ledge out of? The PV would on all the time if it's metal.

The ledge is metal...a rubber o-ring would keep the battery from touching it.

But you're right...someone's finger could still keep the circuit closed when pushing the button.

I think in the other thread someone said something about a hot spring on top.

I think it's a good idea if they can figure out how to get it to work.

 

[EKDP]

No, it's not air tight. Your test is not scientific. I want to see pressure gauges at very least. The threads are not interference or you would need wrenches to tighten the mod. That's why people make pipe bombs with plumbing pipe & fittings because it is air & water tight. Well, till it explodes. I appreciate your concern for our safety, but what are your credentials to test and state that it is unsafe and do not purchase? You did not test to failure. That is the proper way to test. Until it is tested till failure no one will know if it is safe from there built in safety features.

 

[martinc]

No need,we have seen what mods w/o vent holes do...they blow up.

 

[EKDP]

That's the purpose of controlled testing. What he did was not controlled. I'm not on any side. I want a lab to test to failure so I know one way or another. Testing something like this would involve more than one mod being destroyed or damaged due to different variables. What is the volume & velocity from a battery that is out gassing? Now if someone knows this then it might turn out that mods that were thought safe are not. I know having three items impact tested to meet military specs. was $10,000. The expectation before it was sent out was it would pass, but it does not matter what we thought. The evidence from test speaks for it's self. Let's all demand certified testing from every mod maker. That would solve the problem. Now keep in mind everyone will have the testing cost added to the cost of your mod.

 

[Rocketman]

So I take it you're still smoking cigarettes waiting on certified testing of a safe PV?
Or do you have one proven to be safe?

 

[EKDP]

I said in my second post in this thread that I'm not on any side. I vape from a mod that I run on 1 IMR 3.7v battery with no less than 2ohm. Making a video with improper testing procedures and then stating that it's not safe & do not buy based on said testing is wrong. I don't order from Got Vapes or have affiliation with them. I know testing would be very expensive. Every battery configuration for the mod would need to be tested along with every battery type that the mod maker would suggest. I have been looking into test results from batteries out gassing. The vent size can be calculated from volume & velocity of the gas. This does not mean it would be safe but gives a great starting point for design & testing of the mod. I want a safer mod like most. Do I want to pay a lot more because of the testing involved, no. I don't mind a increase in cost but I know that they would have to sell a lot of mods to not affect price drastically.

 

[CDnerds]

I think there is basic logic when it comes to explosions in general. If the gas can escape, it will not explode. Things like hot springs work.. just ask GrimGreen. So testing isnt necessary. If you want a 100% safe PV, your never going to find one. You can only lower your risk.

 

[CDnerds]

No, it's not air tight. Your test is not scientific. I want to see pressure gauges at very least. The threads are not interference or you would need wrenches to tighten the mod. That's why people make pipe bombs with plumbing pipe & fittings because it is air & water tight. Well, till it explodes. I appreciate your concern for our safety, but what are your credentials to test and state that it is unsafe and do not purchase? You did not test to failure. That is the proper way to test. Until it is tested till failure no one will know if it is safe from there built in safety features.

If you can't see basic safety features on a mechanical mod there is a problem. A battery like the Ego has short circuit protection. You can go on YouTube and find a ton of videos with people showing how it works and shorting the battery. Also with mods like the lavatube. Would you risk shorting a battery, being anywhere near a mechanical mod with no visible protections? No thank you. You don't need "credentials" to understand basic logic. You don't need credentials to know that a hot spring works. You don't need credentials to know its stupid to have a mod that vents only at a certain pressure level. It should just vent gas - period. From a balloon or a battery. Not all battery venting will be the same. Especially from a mechanical mod because there are no backups.

 

[Rocketman]

What is the gas velocity for a sealed mod? What is terminal pressure for a Li-ion cell?
You have been looking, what did you find?

I think "suspect unsafe" is adequate for the manufacturer to react.

Presenting the possibility, for peer review, that a mod, PV, whatever, is potentially dangerous in one or more configurations is enough to drive either a redesign, of proof that the current design is safe.
It appears the manufacturer's engineers have already taken a position.

Li-ion venting into a closed volume has already been tested with sealed airborne systems by the Air Force and NASA.


The low pressure venting on this PV seems to be non-existent. At what pressure will some seal or component fail to release addition gas and pressure? No one has demonstrated that yet. Not our job. Raise the question, and wait for the manufacturer to respond, or not. I, personally would consider the action taken by at least one vendor to be a 'Safety Recall' of this device. NO ONE with the proper credentials has presented an adequate case to resume using this model. Our community, industry (?) does not have a functioning recall system. This is the best we have at the moment. Making comments to the contrary that may lead someone to think this is not a valid safety issue is acting irresponsibly.

Thank you all.

 

[CDnerds]

What is the gas velocity for a sealed mod? What is terminal pressure for a Li-ion cell?
You have been looking, what did you find?

I think "suspect unsafe" is adequate for the manufacturer to react.

Presenting the possibility, for peer review, that a mod, PV, whatever, is potentially dangerous in one or more configurations is enough to drive either a redesign, of proof that the current design is safe.
It appears the manufacturer's engineers have already taken a position.

Li-ion venting into a closed volume has already been tested with sealed airborne systems by the Air Force and NASA.

I agree completely. A company like Smoktech ist going to do a 180 on its mod if we didnt find something that's unsafe enough for them to do it.

 

[hmlessalky]

He did not make comments to the contrary, he was just asking about the validity of testing done by a non-professional in the field, and stating the possible costs that people would be willing to absorb to have every mod tested in a manor to deem them 'safe'. I would think the OP stating that no one should buy these mods due to his 'testing' is more irresponsible than a person asking for valid testing before quantifying safety, and suggesting that testing done by a reputable source be conducted in determining the safety thresholds.

Peer review is fine, but only when the peers are experienced in the field associated with the review. Oh hold, on, but it is not our job to review....

 

[Rocketman]

How about this?

I did not do any testing, not even a balloon test. By looking at pictures of the mod I do not see adequate safety features.
I challenge someone with the proper background to demonstrate, either by design analysis or emperically, that this is a safe mod.
Rocket thinks this mod is unsafe in it's present form.

I suggest that it's use be terminated until a redesign has been submitted, or test data. I will sit back and wait.

Vape at your own risk.


by the way, this is post 139 of at least two threads on this.

 

[six]

Until it is tested till failure no one will know if it is safe from there built in safety features.

What features are those? This is the point to Sense Fields' video. The safety features for mechanical mods are vent holes, blow out plugs, and hot springs. That's what they are. this device contains none of those things. You are stating that no one will know if this mods safety features will work without testing it to failure.... since this device does not employ such features, I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that something that doesn't exist should be tested further. If the safety features are not built in, how can they be tested?

Mechanical mods are very basic and there is only so much that can be done to decrease the risk that a thermal event can present. Over the last year or so, we've learned quite a lot about the behavior of failed batteries. It isn't just stacked batteries that can present problems, either. Single cells can and have had episodes that put users at risk as well. There have been quite a few ego and ego clones that have launched like bottle rockets - there's at least one big battery mechanical tube mod that has a couple of old threads here on ECF that also launched like a rocket when a single battery failed. There are a pair of well known injury related incidents (Florida and Colorado) where the users were lucky to escape with their lives when their stacked 16340s had catastrophic thermal episodes. - The device in question has none of the three safety features employed for mechanical mods. None of them. No hot spring and it wouldn't even work if there was one the way it's designed. No blow out plug (and we learned from the ego batteries going bottle rocket that a blow out plug isn't enough by itself). No vent holes or slots. It lacks any safety features.