SnusX Bucket - bulk snus, add your own flavours (formerly 'Make your own snus')

[exogenesis]

Good to know they can be used straight out of the bucket as dry portions TV,
that might convince me to get some.


pH 9 required to convert all the nic to freebase, pH 8 would be 50% freebase. pH 10 not necessary.


Just 'titrated' 2g finely ground rustica suspended in 10ml water with 1 M NaOH to pH 9,
required 1.9 ml, far far more than I anticipated.
Almost 5 times what would be required to freebase the nicotine if it was 5% in the rustica.

Other stuff in the tobacco must be soaking up the alkali as well (not too surprising really I guess).

So Vaporer, that would need 0.08 g Na2CO3 = carbonate (not NaHCO3 = bicarbonate)
- to be approximately equivalent to the 1.9 NaOH ml above.
Looks like you got the amount about right , but need to be carbonate not bicarbonate.

Wonder if 'wetting' of the dry rustica/carbonate mixture in the mouth gives the nicotine
time enough to be freebased before it's adsorbed into tissue ?

 

[Vaporer]

Good news indeed TV on "use as is". Ettan is the flavor most compare it to.

Exo, not having carbonate at hand and knowing carbonate changes immediately to bicarbonate in saliva I wondered besides conditioning the oral pH for effectiveness if it would make a diff. It still pushes the oral pH low and is consumeably safe. The way it reads on the snus sites, its still a carbonate when the portion goes in. Thanks for the calculation. I figured I should be close and it was a safe for a test.
My rustica was not baked dry for this test but guessing 5-10% moisture. Adding the bicarbonate and flavoring made it appear moist enough to pack.

Time to get the camera ready.

 

[exogenesis]

Gotta be a video
Here's Vaporer trying his first home-made rustica snus, notice the expression of combined joy and pain.
See how he picks himself back off the floor after being blasted out of his socks.


btw: a bit more detail on the carbonate/bicarbonate thing,
if there was no other plant solutes present the below would happen:

1 M carbonate contains about 0.1g solid per ml.

Reckon the 0.1g of bicarbonate you added will only get it to just over pH 7,
i.e. around 10% of the nic. in freebase form, assuming that's the thing you're looking for.

I measured the actual dried rustica as starting off at around pH 5 or so.

 

[Vaporer]

Nice graph and forgot to mention the same on Johns too.

Actually exo I weighed the Ettan, .47gm. So, I made up portions with tea bag paper that I think came out nicely for a test. .25gm, .12gm and .06gm. All with the bicarb and peppermint flavoring I mentioned.
Did the .06 tonight. Flavor was light. You could feel the coolness, but very little taste unless prodded with the tounge. Seemed to have a nic hit. I kept it in 2 hrs and no urges crept up but I did seem to feel some nic. Anyone else think rustica hits the head harder/diff? Thunder Frosted 17mg doesnt do to my head what rustica does , even as snuff.

I decided to do the .12gm tomorrow for a fair test. It should have more flavor with more volume. I can tune the flavor up when I get the nic & MAOI I'm hoping for.
The snuff faired better for nic, but the menthol is light. No bicarb in the snuff either and it will wax your head for you fast if to much at once.

I took pics of it all, ground(snus & snuff), snus in the tea bag before and after folded with an Ettan for reference.

Didnt know wheather to post them here or make a new thread for actually made test demo portions. That would leave a lot of discussion here. Both ways have merit, dont want to get things all mixed up or to spread out.

You can all vote! Here or new thread? Others could post thiers trials in the other thread too.
PM me your vote so we can keep the posts low here, ok?

 

[exogenesis]

Were those weights (0.47 g ... 0.06 g) the weight of the prepared tobacco ?

Looking forward to the pictures, up to you if you start a new thread -
might be more focussed that way, rather than getting the info mixed up
with the SnusX bucket stuff.

Sounds like it's pleasant stuff, here's hoping to get away from the typical rank(ish)
traditional snus taste, while getting the right hit effect using much smaller amounts.

...
not having carbonate at hand and knowing carbonate changes immediately to bicarbonate in saliva I wondered besides conditioning the oral pH for effectiveness if it would make a diff. It still pushes the oral pH low and is consumeably safe. The way it reads on the snus sites, its still a carbonate when the portion goes in.
...

Trying to clarify the difference : basically (ho ho) bicarbonate doesn't add enough alkalinity to do the job.

The carbonate added to snus is converted to bicarbonate because of the acidity in the tobacco,
not by the saliva itself as such - that's just the 'liquid phase' allowing it to happen.

If you added enough dry carbonate to dry tobacco, such that it was pH 9 after wetting,
95% of it would have turned into bicarbonate (it's just a pH acid/base equilibrium)
- although saliva does buffer the pH a bit, since it conains some bicarb & phosphate anyway.



But apparently it's easy to convert bicarb to carbonate - just heat it in oven at 200'C for an hour
(don't use a metal container, particularly not aluminium !)

2NaHCO3 -> Na2CO3 + H2O + CO2
sorted, don't need to go searching for food quality carbonate (E500).

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

By all means start another thread V. We have lots of info in this one regarding SnusX and a separate one on homemade and/or home grown snus should be limited to just that. As it is now, we have 2 good, but different subjects sharing the same space and could get confusing...and too long for others to follow. You and exo have already supplied some excellent info that would be more beneficial away from the SnusX stuff. Maybe copy and past into the other thread??

 

[Vaporer]

Yes exo, the original .47 is the whole Ettan portion. The numbers I posted are the actual tobacco weights in the portion. I tared the scales with the portion paper on it. Most peices were barely .01gm. I tared anyway and then added the "filler".
Tnx for the info on the carbonate. drive of a little co2 huh? I have pyrex.

TV, it was kinda a tough call on which way to go with the title of this thread being what it is. Might want to see if a mod wants to add SnusX to this title, or start one too for SnusX tests and trials. Its a double edged sword either digging through a long mixed thread or having many threads to find(new people). You'll never keep a thread 100% pure, I dont care how it goes.

 

[exogenesis]

Have PM'd a moderator to change the title of this thread to a SnusX bucket specific one.

That should make 'Make your own snus / snuff' (or whatever) available for you Vaporer

Agree with TV, repeating some parts of some of the posts in this thread in the new one would work OK

- if you want to start a new thread that is V.


btw tried converting some bicarb. to carbonate, 70g converted to 44.2g,
after 2 hours at 250'C (got carried away),
which is within 2% of the expected weight loss from the conversion equation above.

Will try to see exactly how much is required for pH9 with the rustica.

 

[Vaporer]

Exo, good deal on the bicarb exchange. Appreciate the info.
I started a new thread with Rustica in the title. That way there can be a Virgina thread and so on. Getting SnusX in this title should solve it all pretty well.

If you came up with a per gram figure on the carbonate that would be great.
I had figured going with 5% by dry weight of the ground tobacco. Seems to be the norm for the Swedes.

 

[Vaporer]

Ok, Nice title change. My subscription to the original thread linked me right to it.
This will be much better I think in the long haul.

Got my SnusX samples from TV. Tnx TV. They have been weighed and are in the oven drying now for a moisture content test. They are very dry it seems. I kind of expected this and at the same time I didnt. I took 6 total from the tin 3 top and 3 bottom. The top ones all weighed in at .49gms. All 3 bottom ones weighed in at .52gms.
I didnt notice any foul strong pungent odor. They smelled like an Ettan regular to me.
If this is how the bucket smells, I'd have no issues with ordering a couple or even 4.
They appear dry enough to freeze well for long term prior to flavoring as is. Drying them or pressure cooking, I'd go 4yrs frozen with no issues unless I saw a noticeable diff when removing them for use. I'd store them in smaller amounts so they all werent exposed everytime more were needed for use.

I'll post the dried weights later when done.

 

[Vaporer]

Thought of a question.

Does anyone know the temp needed for microbacterial sterilization?
100% dry is easy to do, but is that temp high enough to kill the buggers if moisture slipped back in?
Also, at what pressure , if pressure cooked, is required to kill them off and time at that pressure?

A definitive answer here would add some level of comfort in preping them while removing some assumptions.

 

[Caesarea]

One for Tropical Bob. Is Capella's Kahlua flavouring comparable to or as good as Bickford's?
Can get Capella this side of the ocean but not Bickford's.

C.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

I didnt notice any foul strong pungent odor. They smelled like an Ettan regular to me.
If this is how the bucket smells, I'd have no issues with ordering a couple or even 4.

V, I have another bucket in transit and is scheduled for delivery today according to UPS tracking. I'll give it a sniff and see how comparable it is the first one. On order of magnitude, I had some portions in a cleaned out 02 can so I could keep a few with me. The smell generally seemed hardly less potent than the whole bucket. 'Course, the smell of Ettan could be a turnoff to some. Thunder Berry Blend gags me even now .

exo, good call on the thread re-naming. More fitting and well defined for the topic .

 

[TropicalBob]

C: I could only guess that Kahlua will be Kahlua, no matter the brand. Go for it since you can't get Bickford's.

Vaporer: Ok, I'll say it. Ettan stinks.

 

[Caesarea]

C: I could only guess that Kahlua will be Kahlua, no matter the brand. Go for it since you can't get Bickford's.

Vaporer: Ok, I'll say it. Ettan stinks.

It just sounds gorgeous! Capella kahlua it shall be! Gonna try it on some ordinary tobacco flavour snus. Just got a can of Ettan. Maybe kahlua will conquer it!

Think I will store my bucket for a while. It's good till 2012! By then someone much wiser than me will have solved the flavouring problems!

Thanks,

C.

 

[Vaporer]

TV & TB, I can see where a bucket full would have more volume of "the odor".
I think its a personal thing on the specific araoma.
Mine, sometimes isnt that good....especially with citrus as of late.

TB is always a front runner in things and he more than likely has a better nose than I do for more than 1 reason.
I still have a suspicion that his 1st bucket may have been a rushed 1st out the door and carried more odor. Hard call.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

TB is always a front runner in things and he more than likely has a better nose than I do for more than 1 reason.
I still have a suspicion that his 1st bucket may have been a rushed 1st out the door and carried more odor. Hard call.

That's been my thoughts too. Maybe mine laid around the shop before they swept it up and got it in the bucket.

 

[TropicalBob]

I did get one of the first buckets, I guess. I'm happy to hear that not every bucket stinks to everyone. I'll probably order another, but no telling how long it will take me to finish off this one!

Next experiment will use Stevia and water in solution to moisturize and sweeten, then some flavor drops.

 

[exogenesis]

Vaporer, if you're looking for true sterilisation then autoclaving is the
only sure way with wet (or moist) things.

i.e. the standard is 121'C, 15 PSI, 20 mins, which is what I used regularly for sterilising
microbial growth media in the lab. in a previous career.

A pressure cooker does the same thing as an autoclave, bit less controlled.
Dry or moist things do tend to get soggy though.

Dry heat sterilisation conditions in an oven (e.g. for equipment) are typically 160'C for 2 hours.

Partial kill (i.e. pasteurisation) is more gentle, & easier to apply to liquids (like milk) than solids,
but the snus 'steam pasteurisation' technique/conditions are probably find-able, I'd guess.

 

[jongleur]

Got my bucket in the mail yesterday. Smells very nice to me. Earthy, tobacco-y.

My wife says "it smells like feet". She says that about a lot of things, though. Including feet.

--John