So I finally saw it happen...

[Bad Ninja]

And unfortunately, those people are the majority of homo sapiens.

Andria

I don't really agree, and I don't agree that we should make laws, ban items, and modify our lives because a small minority of people have been allowed to escape Darwinism. Nature used to eliminate that problem, society today molds itself around celebrating it.

People know better, but because we will make laws to protect them, and ban those dangerous batteries, they become lazy and complacent with personal safety and expect us to pick up the slack.

 

[AndriaD]

I don't really agree, and I don't agree that we should make laws, ban items, and modify our lives because a small minority of people have been allowed to escape Darwinism. Nature used to eliminate that problem, society today molds itself around celebrating it.

People know better, but because we will make laws to protect them, and ban those dangerous batteries, they become lazy and complacent with personal safety and expect us to pick up the slack.

Agree 100%. There would be a lot fewer truly stupid people if nature were allowed to take its normal course -- when your life depends on not being stupid, you tend to wise up pretty quickly -- or get dead.

Andria

 

[Asbestos4004]

All I can say is I hope nothing happens to any of those that are thinking this is "just a story". When you come back and post your "story" don't be surprised when nobody believes you either.

Knock It Off!

Seriously....18 and older on this site, correct? Ok, no more questioning. I'll put myself in the corner for 30 minutes and no dessert.

 

[Robino1]

Seriously....18 and older on this site, correct? Ok, no more questioning. I'll put myself in the corner for 30 minutes and no dessert.

10 minutes works and you can have dessert if you finish all your dinner

 

[Dioxyde]

What these accidents make blatantly clear is that battery safety, unfortunately, is not common knowledge. In an age where everyone is walking around loaded down with battery powered electronics... very strange indeed, it should be a standard.

 

[SmokinRabbit]

What these accidents make blatantly clear is that battery safety, unfortunately, is not common knowledge. In an age where everyone is walking around loaded down with battery powered electronics... very strange indeed, it should be a standard.

I don't think it's "common sense" at all. Why? Because we all know that nearly everyone is walking around with one, if not multiple, lithium batteries on them all the freaking time, but we rarely hear about any problems at all. There are literally millions and millions of these things floating around in people's electronics on a daily basis and you hear of what, one accident per year? It makes people feel safe.

Even me, I'm a pro photographer and on a shoot I can easily have 15 batteries in my camera bag... Not to mention my phone, my iPad...

I'm not a stupid person by any means, but honestly didn't give battery safety much thought at all until vaping and reading stories here. The occasional cellphone meltdown sounds like a fluke from a kid who buys cheapo third-party batteries. Most people just think lithium batteries are safe, everyday items. Most "common sense" seems to indicate that most people will never have a problem, by sheer statistics alone. I think VAPING safety, especially with unregulated devices is in a different category of lithium battery usage.

I'm now prob a little paranoid about them, but better safe than sorry... I'm all for education. I just don't think it's fair to assume people are dumb because of what 10 years of problem-free lithium battery experience has taught them...

 

[Sl4gathor]

People like this are why you can't buy a cup of hot coffee in the US without a warning label on it. Maybe I'm special, but when I order a hot coffee, I have the suspicion that it is going to be hot.

View attachment 423960

Picture stolen......[emoji16]
Nothing to see here, move along.....

 

[beckdg]

10 minutes works and you can have dessert if you finish all your dinner

broccoli and spinach again? ugh... looks like i'll be skipping dessert for a month...

 

[Robino1]

broccoli and spinach again? ugh... looks like i'll be skipping dessert for a month...

A couple of my favorites

 

[beckdg]

I don't think it's "common sense" at all. Why? Because we all know that nearly everyone is walking around with one, if not multiple, lithium batteries on them all the freaking time, but we rarely hear about any problems at all. There are literally millions and millions of these things floating around in people's electronics on a daily basis and you hear of what, one accident per year? It makes people feel safe.

Even me, I'm a pro photographer and on a shoot I can easily have 15 batteries in my camera bag... Not to mention my phone, my iPad...

I'm not a stupid person by any means, but honestly didn't give battery safety much thought at all until vaping and reading stories here. The occasional cellphone meltdown sounds like a fluke from a kid who buys cheapo third-party batteries. Most people just think lithium batteries are safe, everyday items. Most "common sense" seems to indicate that most people will never have a problem, by sheer statistics alone. I think VAPING safety, especially with unregulated devices is in a different category of lithium battery usage.

I'm now prob a little paranoid about them, but better safe than sorry... I'm all for education. I just don't think it's fair to assume people are dumb because of what 10 years of problem-free lithium battery experience has taught them...

not that i disagree.

but the common sense part is that you have stored energy in your pocket.

energy... is dangerous... when it's stored and has a potential to escape.

even alkaline, nickel metal hydride and nickel cadmium batteries explode.

this knowledge should be common at this point.

lithiums chemical reaction to mistreatment is a typical thermo-chemical reaction known in chemistry. just a particularly hot one that vents toxic fumes.

though, it's not much unlike a lead acid battery boiling (and exploding hot acid everywhere).

statistics only suggest that the way we're protected by consumer safety devices allow us to become complacent in what should be common knowledge. without those safety precautions in place, we're back to the 1950's when people understood it wasn't the brightest idea to put your finger between the sprockets.

ETA: for example...

i was once on a job with an employee and friend of mine. he pointed straight at what was obviously at least a 220V feed line that was exposed and asked "should i cut through that, too?" while holding a utility knife. i responded "can you land a backflip?". he had the nerve to ask me what that was supposed to mean.

suffice it to say, i eventually explained to him that he'd have to be well versed in gymnastics to not have a bruise to go along with the burn he's about to receive.

 

[SmokinRabbit]

I think there is a pretty substantial difference between cutting through a live electrical line and believing a battery in your pocket might cause you significant harm. When was the last time, other than maybe here in these vaping forums, you heard of someone dying or receiving a life-changing injury from a battery in their pocket? It's by far, not a common occurrence you hear of.

(Compared to say car accidents that occur every single day, so it's stupid not to wear a seat belt. It's common knowledge that it's safer to put one on).

Believe me, I'm not arguing. Education is a good thing. But statistically, to call people dumb because they believe the batteries they have come to rely on day after day are relatively safe... I don't think it's a safe assumption at all. It is NOT common knowledge to say they are dangerous. Statistically, lithium battery usage IS safe, even for people who put them in their pockets unprotected (and trust me, I don't recommend that!).

Of course, as I said, I'm all for education. I also think an activity like vaping does put the onus on the community to educate even more so. I fly drones and those batteries come with fairly large warning because of the size and type of batteries used. Should be the same thing with every raw battery sold. Even vaping devices themselves should come with better battery warnings.

You can't call people dumb and uneducated if no one has made an attempt to educate them. The way some of these "dangerous batteries" are sold certainly doesn't spell out danger. And it's not like there's a class in school called battery safety, keeping in mind again, general statistics have taught them that batteries are otherwise safe.

 

[Joseph Swint]

Until I came to this forum, I'd have been in the "dumb" category about batteries. I've carried loose batteries around for over 30 years with no problems. It wasn't until I got into vaping, that I was exposed to batteries designed to put out lots of power quickly. If it wasn't for this forum, I'd still not have a clue that you can't treat the batteries we use like the disposable batteries most people are used to. Even the rechargeable batteries in electronics are different than the 18650 you put in your mod, and designed to put out a steady, slow amount of power over time. Even with those batteries, shorting them isn't a good idea, I know.

One thing we need to understand about "common sense" and "common usage" is largely, our electronic equipment is designed to "just work". There is very little to no technical knowledge required about how it "just works". Just slap in the power source, and away you go. That doesn't translate to vaping very well. Especially when we're using equipment that is using electricity to perform a job in a very basic, mechanical manner. Most people see the word electronic, and think digital. Not electronic as in this is just some wiring with a switch to create a circuit that runs through some material that provides some resistance and creates heat. When you think about it, we're basically putting liquid filled light bulbs to our face and lighting them up lol.

I bet if you took someone totally clueless to electronic cigarettes, and gave them a disassembled mech mod, they would be confused about how it works because there is no chip present. As I write this, and look around my small office, the only thing in here electrical that works closest to a basic e-cig is a light bulb and I bet that a lot of people, especially younger people, don't even know how they work. They just do.

Shops and sites that sell equipment need to do a better, more focused job of explaining battery safety to their customers. Vaping has moved beyond the tinkerers and hobbyists that know stuff doesn't "just work" and out into the realm of the general public that expects everything to "just work". Battery safety shouldn't be asteriked off from the rest of the product description, at the bottom in a smaller font to look like fine print. Rather it should be in big bold highlighted section. Required reading during checkout on a website, or required topic of discussion at the sales counter.

 

[Bad Ninja]

All of you should be adults.
All of you should have a basic education.
All of you should have taken basic science classes.

All of you should have paid attention.

If you graduated high school you were taught about energy, electricity, and how a battery stores and releases power.

If you didn't pay attention or didn't surmise that a battery could discharge any time it is shorted with a piece of metal, it isnt a shops fault, it's yours.

If your education "didn't take", maybe blame the school, but not a vape shop where an adult made the decision to buy a high discharge battery and shove it in a pocket full of metal.

We all know better. This is basic science we were all taught.

People should take responsibility for their own actions no matter how stupid it is.

 

[AndriaD]

Until I came to this forum, I'd have been in the "dumb" category about batteries. I've carried loose batteries around for over 30 years with no problems. It wasn't until I got into vaping, that I was exposed to batteries designed to put out lots of power quickly. If it wasn't for this forum, I'd still not have a clue that you can't treat the batteries we use like the disposable batteries most people are used to. Even the rechargeable batteries in electronics are different than the 18650 you put in your mod, and designed to put out a steady, slow amount of power over time. Even with those batteries, shorting them isn't a good idea, I know.

One thing we need to understand about "common sense" and "common usage" is largely, our electronic equipment is designed to "just work". There is very little to no technical knowledge required about how it "just works". Just slap in the power source, and away you go. That doesn't translate to vaping very well. Especially when we're using equipment that is using electricity to perform a job in a very basic, mechanical manner. Most people see the word electronic, and think digital. Not electronic as in this is just some wiring with a switch to create a circuit that runs through some material that provides some resistance and creates heat. When you think about it, we're basically putting liquid filled light bulbs to our face and lighting them up lol.

I bet if you took someone totally clueless to electronic cigarettes, and gave them a disassembled mech mod, they would be confused about how it works because there is no chip present. As I write this, and look around my small office, the only thing in here electrical that works closest to a basic e-cig is a light bulb and I bet that a lot of people, especially younger people, don't even know how they work. They just do.

Shops and sites that sell equipment need to do a better, more focused job of explaining battery safety to their customers. Vaping has moved beyond the tinkerers and hobbyists that know stuff doesn't "just work" and out into the realm of the general public that expects everything to "just work". Battery safety shouldn't be asteriked off from the rest of the product description, at the bottom in a smaller font to look like fine print. Rather it should be in big bold highlighted section. Required reading during checkout on a website, or required topic of discussion at the sales counter.

I was in the "dumb" category too, even though I understood perfectly well that a battery was stored energy; I just had no real idea what happens if that energy escapes all at once.

The thing about "just working" that you mentioned... I think that's why we constantly see all these new vapers whining about how haaaaaaard vaping is -- because if you want a good vape, it's not going to "just work" -- you're going to have to see that things are just right, to provide a good vape. Replaceable coils are convenient, sure... but the vape they provide is never going to equal that of a well-built, SELF-built coil. With all the variability of ejuice, we constantly see folks around here whining about how their clearo is giving them dry hits -- probably because someone told them that max-VG was all that and a doughnut too -- thing is, most clearos won't wick max-VG worth a crap. If you're using max-VG, it's a good idea to know how to build your own coils for an RDA!

I recall very clearly, when I first started vaping last year, wondering why my e-cig didn't "just work" -- because T3S's are among the cheapest clearos you can get, and that's the kind of vape they provide. If it hadn't been for ECF, advising me, instructing me, and teaching me about building coils, I'm sure I'd have just given up, because "it just didn't work." Anyone who's unwilling to learn, who thinks it ought to "just work"... they'll probably go back to smoking.

Andria

 

[Joseph Swint]

All of you should be adults.
All of you should have a basic education.
All of you should have taken basic science classes.

All of you should have paid attention.

If you graduated high school you were taught about energy, electricity, and how a battery stores and releases power.

If you didn't pay attention or didn't surmise that a battery could discharge any time it is shorted with a piece of metal, it isnt a shops fault, it's yours.

If your education "didn't take", maybe blame the school, but not a vape shop where an adult made the decision to buy a high discharge battery and shove it in a pocket full of metal.

We all know better. This is basic science we were all taught.

People should take responsibility for their own actions no matter how stupid it is.

Unfortunately, that's not a part of basic science education that's drilled into people's heads enough that they'll remember it as they go about their daily lives. Like I said previously, people aren't used to using something that can discharge lots of stored energy at the press of a button. If I hadn't done previous reading up on 18650 batteries, I most likely would have handled them the same way I've handled AA and AAA batteries for years. That is, carry them loosely in a pocket or backpack without worrying too much about it. If it shorted and caused a fire, yeah, it would have been my fault alone for failing to educate myself about the product I asked for.

We as vapors, should not be looking at people coming into vaping as if they're idiots for not having battery safety at the forefront of their minds. Most likely, they are looking for a way to escape tobacco usage and need to be reminded about safe handling of batteries. We take the time to teach and educate about nicotine usage, coil building, what's the best tank etc when they are new. Why shouldn't we also take a moment to say "Hey, these batteries that we're using require a little more attention to safe handling than what you may be used to"?

 

[roxynoodle]

All of you should be adults.
All of you should have a basic education.
All of you should have taken basic science classes.

All of you should have paid attention.

If you graduated high school you were taught about energy, electricity, and how a battery stores and releases power.

If you didn't pay attention or didn't surmise that a battery could discharge any time it is shorted with a piece of metal, it isnt a shops fault, it's yours.

If your education "didn't take", maybe blame the school, but not a vape shop where an adult made the decision to buy a high discharge battery and shove it in a pocket full of metal.

We all know better. This is basic science we were all taught.

People should take responsibility for their own actions no matter how stupid it is.

In a perfect world maybe. I wish it were so, but it isn't. Twenty years teaching. My students could do twenty math problems, and mostly do them correctly, but tell me the very next day they had never seen problems like them before.

And we all have different talents. Ask me to read, write or speak French now, 29 years after graduating, and I couldn't. I'm a math and science nerd though. I remember all or most of that. Earning degrees in those fields has made a substantial difference, too. A fifth grader might do better than me answering American history questions as well. So am I dumber than a fifth grader? I don't think so, but haven't had any need to recall the information for so long.

 

[Bad Ninja]

In a perfect world maybe. I wish it were so, but it isn't. Twenty years teaching. My students could do twenty math problems, and mostly do them correctly, but tell me the very next day they had never seen problems like them before.

And we all have different talents. Ask me to read, write or speak French now, 29 years after graduating, and I couldn't. I'm a math and science nerd though. I remember all or most of that. Earning degrees in those fields has made a substantial difference, too. A fifth grader might do better than me answering American history questions as well. So am I dumber than a fifth grader? I don't think so, but haven't had any need to recall the information for so long.

Yes but it is not the schools fault or yours.
The students can't sue you because they didn't pay attention or don't remember.
They remember enough to pass your class and graduate high school.
It's not your responsibility to make them remember once they reach adulthood.


Ask any sane adult what happens when you touch a metal wrench to BOTH posts of a car battery.
We all know what happens, and it's not good.


If someone is too mentally deficient to apply that concept to a battery that clearly is sold as a "high discharge" battery, they are clearly dangerous people who need constant supervision...IMHO in a care facility.

 

[EBates]

Ya know, I just looked at one of my e-cig 18650 batteries and there it was "WARNING: BATTERY MAY EXPLODE OR FIRE IF MISTREATED......". I haven't gone through all of the different brands that I own but my sample of the two I have here at my desk both have Warning labels. Since the 18650 batteries are relatively small the opportunity to have pictures for those unable to read or understand the warning.
You can cure ignorance, but you can't cure for stupid.

 

[roxynoodle]

Yes but it is not the schools fault or yours.
The students can't sue you because they didn't pay attention or don't remember.
They remember enough to pass your class and graduate high school.
It's not your responsibility to make them remember once they reach adulthood.


Ask any sane adult what happens when you touch a metal wrench to BOTH posts of a car battery.
We all know what happens, and it's not good.


If someone is too mentally deficient to apply that concept to a battery that clearly is sold as a "high discharge" battery, they are clearly dangerous people who need constant supervision...IMHO in a care facility.

I wouldn't be the least surprised to find out my mother doesn't know that. And she's actually a genius. I bet my sister doesn't know either. She and her husband asked me to drive 2 hours each way to cut off her rusty license plate bolts, and to put their closet door back on the tracking

 

[beckdg]

I think there is a pretty substantial difference between cutting through a live electrical line and believing a battery in your pocket might cause you significant harm. When was the last time, other than maybe here in these vaping forums, you heard of someone dying or receiving a life-changing injury from a battery in their pocket? It's by far, not a common occurrence you hear of.

(Compared to say car accidents that occur every single day, so it's stupid not to wear a seat belt. It's common knowledge that it's safer to put one on).

Believe me, I'm not arguing. Education is a good thing. But statistically, to call people dumb because they believe the batteries they have come to rely on day after day are relatively safe... I don't think it's a safe assumption at all. It is NOT common knowledge to say they are dangerous. Statistically, lithium battery usage IS safe, even for people who put them in their pockets unprotected (and trust me, I don't recommend that!).

Of course, as I said, I'm all for education. I also think an activity like vaping does put the onus on the community to educate even more so. I fly drones and those batteries come with fairly large warning because of the size and type of batteries used. Should be the same thing with every raw battery sold. Even vaping devices themselves should come with better battery warnings.

You can't call people dumb and uneducated if no one has made an attempt to educate them. The way some of these "dangerous batteries" are sold certainly doesn't spell out danger. And it's not like there's a class in school called battery safety, keeping in mind again, general statistics have taught them that batteries are otherwise safe.

got it.

we're on the same page. (my how to for example... HP DPS 600PB How To Mod for charging power supply. - Electric Motors, ESCs, batteries, etc. @ URC Forums)

just you're responding to a rude labeling of people who don't know better because they've never been specifically informed whereas i'm currently speaking more along the lines of a little forethought should suggest a chance of a level of danger.

correct me if this is off.