Some facts on 100mg Nicotine

[Concat]

Exactly. If anyone's being unethical, Concat...it's Box Elder with their mislabelled (??) product.

Frankly, we have half a mind to discreetly report them to the authorities so that an inspector can peruse their supplies...& if there is funny business going on, either fine them or shut them down.This alleged business of "it's really flavourless PG with nic, but mislabelled as a highly controversial antibiotic associated with life-threatening reactions" is very shady. If it's Levonic, it's bloody dangerous. If it's PG with nicotine, it's fraudulent. Either way you look at it, they're not serving the best interests of the vaping community.

Legitimate businesses, in the vaping world & elsewhere, do not operate in this fashion.

Now you’re talking about getting authorities involved? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

I refuse to believe you people have such knee jerk reactions. You don’t know anything about the company. He could own the trademark Levonic in the States for all you know.

Sigh… ok ok. It’s clear I’m not getting anywhere in my pursuit for a level headed discussion. They use the same name as some Pakistani drug. Clearly they are frauds and/or are dangerous. That’s what I’m hearing right? Ok ok… I’ll try to bow out gracefully. Sorry if I seem heated over this. I don’t even care about Box Elder.

 

[AllYourBase]

??????

Box Elder Chemical Supply - 60 ML 36 Mg/Ml

What the heck is that?

Ok, looked into it. Not only does this company not list the source of their nicotine, they don't even call it nicotine! This is the e-commerce equivalent to using a code name to buy something out of a guy's trunk in the donut store parking lot! That's best case. Or is it really Levonic, as they state, an antibiotic?

Just checked on your website, you don't list the source of your nicotine either. If the source isn't listed, yours must be crap too, right? Give me a break. Nobody lists the source of their nicotine on their site. If you contacted Box Elder, they would give you a straightforward answer, and it would more than likely be from a reputable source.

Anyway, you should really do some research before you make accusations about what a supplier is selling. Fact: Box Elder is selling nicotine. "Levonic" is simply shorthand for levo-rotatory nicotine. Hence, LevoNic. FYI, levo-rotatory nicotine is the naturally occurring variety, which is the type we want to vape. Yes, an antibiotic has recently picked up the brand name "Levonic", but that means absolutely nothing. You obviously Googled the word Levonic, clicked the first result, and ran over here thinking you had an argument without doing the proper research.

I love how all of these threads devolve into the supplier and his lackey VS. everyone else. When are you guys going to realize that nobody is buying your BS? Rachel, good luck reporting Box Elder to the 'Authorities'. I'm sure that will do a lot of good.

It's funny, first it's 'you are going to die from touching 1 drop of 100mg nicotine', and now it's 'if you buy from those other guys, you are buying antibiotics!' You're really grasping at straws here. Either way, continue the fear mongering. Nobody's buying it.

 

[kanadiankat]

Now you’re talking about getting authorities involved? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

I refuse to believe you people have such knee jerk reactions. You don’t know anything about the company. He could own the trademark Levonic in the States for all you know.

Sigh… ok ok. It’s clear I’m not getting anywhere in my pursuit for a level headed discussion. They use the same name as some Pakistani drug. Clearly they are frauds and/or are dangerous. That’s what I’m hearing right? Ok ok… I’ll try to bow out gracefully. Sorry if I seem heated over this. I don’t even care about Box Elder.

....back to the level headed discussion - I'm going to take the minority position here and hopefully not anger too many.

I don't believe anyone should be reporting a company unless that company has caused them personal harm. I don't like that they are labelling a product we all care about by a name that indicates a regulated pharmaceutical. The liability issues are astronomical. But those are their issues.

Calling a product Levonic is a serious problem - as that is the brand name of an anti-biotic used in extreme emergency cases - when no other antibiotic is working. It's not a tradeable chemical. But again, I don't know the reasoning for this - I'm sure the company involved does.

If they are providing DIY supplies and can do so - good for them.

As for "naming your nic source" - retail companies do that - wholesale companies will generally name the region their product is sourced from, rather than the name of the company that carries out the production of the raw materials.

...so stone me - burn me at the stake - but that's my 2cents....

happy post election day everyone! don't cry. it's only 4 years.

 

[tomknotts]

Ok gotta agree with allyourbase... Was bored so i email box elder... he said its there productname and is not associated with anything other then nicotine containing juice.

 

[AllYourBase]

I don't believe anyone should be reporting a company unless that company has caused them personal harm.

I totally agree, Rachel's threatening to report the company to the authorities for something she didn't understand was a terrible idea.

I don't like that they are labelling a product we all care about by a name that indicates a regulated pharmaceutical. The liability issues are astronomical. But those are their issues.

Calling a product Levonic is a serious problem - as that is the brand name of an anti-biotic used in extreme emergency cases - when no other antibiotic is working. It's not a tradeable chemical. But again, I don't know the reasoning for this - I'm sure the company involved does.

If they are providing DIY supplies and can do so - good for them.

See my previous post regarding exactly why it's called Levonic. (levo-rotatory nicotine) It should definitely be more clearly marked, but perhaps they are trying to be discreet. Hard to tell. Either way, I can see how confusion could occur. I'm glad you aren't making bold accusations, and appreciate your level-headedness on the subject.

As for "naming your nic source" - retail companies do that - wholesale companies will generally name the region their product is sourced from, rather than the name of the company that carries out the production of the raw materials.

Yep. Exactly.

 

[Pipeous]

wow... fear mongering. did osama dying turn people into gov't wannabe's? reporting people from the vaping sector? Rachel, that statement has honestly lost me a lot of respect for you. you are talking like health canada with that approach.

I don't vape 100mg, I buy from canadian suppliers 100%. but freedom of choice was what the original fight was about and I am all for that. seeing the recent discussions and fear mongering is really putting me off though. this will be my last post in these threads and if I see any controversial topic, I'll just bypass it and look for a vapoinsano quote so I can laugh and enjoy the forum. this 9 pages of ranting and fear stuff has really got me worked up...

 

[wood]

gotta love vapos posts when the mood dulls

 

[rachelcoffe]

Pipeous, you know I consider you a friend. And I'm sorry if the earlier post offended you.

But let's be clear about something: a world without restrictions would be a very, very dangerous place. Freedom should absolutely have limits. Absolute freedom = anarchy.

More specifically to this thread...consumers should not ever have the freedom to buy anything under the sun just because they feel like it - especially when it comes to nicotine. Nicotine is wonderful, enjoyable stuff - at safe levels. At unsafe levels, it's deadly.

Everyone who vapes has a fundamental responsibility to be knowledgeable and safe about their vaping. Doubtless there are some completely insane people out there who would love to buy 100% pure nicotine, if they could only find a seller - especially if the price was good. Laws & reasonable restrictions on freedom exist - to protect people from themselves. Because a lot of people frankly need that. Badly.

That's why we have laws requiring you to wear a seatbelt in a car. That's why we have warning labels on all kinds of things. That's why we have drinking laws, & age-limit laws, & prescriptions & a hundred other examples I needn't rattle off. A lawless society with no restrictions on anything would be very free - and very dangerous. You see what we're saying?

---

We have said this many times before & we'll say it again: people are free to make their own choices, & do what they feel is right. But 100mg strength nic liquid is factually unsafe. It's irresponsible, totally unnecessary (not one person here needs it), inconsiderate, & it should not be available for consumers to purchase. For trained, certified chemists and the like? Yes. For consumers, no.

I make no apologies for sharing that view with others, especially when concern for their mortal safety (& to a lesser extent, concern for the entire community's continued access to safe levels of nic) is the motivation in doing so.

Unfortunately, dangerous nic levels like 100mg are presently available for consumers to purchase. Which is why we will continue to recommend smart, sensible avoidance of such when the issue is raised in the forum. Eventually, regulation will come - it's going to happen. HC will be looking for any excuse it can find in order to relent as little as possible, particularly on the nicotine front. Let's not give them one.

---

And as for Box Elder...we never said we would call the authorities on them. We simply said we had half a mind towards doing so. Their product is fraudulently labelled in a manner that could expose people to serious harm. How on earth are people supposed to assume that Levonic = nicotine? Google the following:

Levonic nicotine

You get 9 results. Most of them from this thread.

So if someone stumbled across Box Elder's site, they'd have no idea there was nicotine in there. Or that it wasn't Levonic the antibiotic for sale. A random customer looking for the antibiotic would be quite surprised to find they'd received a bottle of PG with nic instead. Need more? Do a search for nicotine on that site: you'll get no results. They're hiding the nicotine connection intentionally.

Granted, they don't appear to sell any other drugs etc...their primary business seems to be bulk quantities of PG & VG etc. But still - someone could purchase supplies from them without realizing the nicotine connection. At best, Box Elder is not being particularly aboveboard, or putting customer safety first.

We have no desire to give anyone unnecessary grief. But if a company is potentially putting people in danger, should people just sit by & say "oh well, not my problem..." - ???

---

In conclusion, I know things get heated in a debate sometimes folks. When it comes to the lives of fellow vapers, I take a very hard view. But disagreement on an issue should not be seen as an invitation to attack the person who is posting differing opinions from your own. Please bear that in mind.

Stay safe, happy vaping...& all the best.

 

[mwa102464]

Any adult with any brains can manage working with 100mg Nic, I dont think anyone is gonna drink the stuff on purpose here. I use it on a daily, weekly basis and it's not as dangerous I don't think as many make it out to be, Now on the other hand I wouldn't want to be the guy wearing the gear and hazmat suit that has to cut it from 1000mg down to 100mg, but handling 100 is quite simple if you just read a little bit about the subject ! it's not brain surgery here and not much more difficult than mixing a good cocktail if you practice a bit.

 

[wood]

to be fair alot of the canadian suppliers also are hiding the fact that they sell nic
by making it so u need to login in to view the product, hiding your product behind a login is no different than being discrete with product name
at 10% concentration we have already agreed this product is safe
its like you feel like your being a guardian angle when its not needed
im with pipeous , this is getting so blown out of proportion
can suppliers are not trained chemists either so why are they able to use the stuff

 

[rachelcoffe]

Any adult with any brains can manage working with 100mg Nic, I dont think anyone is gonna drink the stuff on purpose here. I use it on a daily, weekly basis and it's not as dangerous I don't think as many make it out to be, Now on the other hand I wouldn't want to be the guy wearing the gear and hazmat suit that has to cut it from 1000mg down to 100mg, but handling 100 is quite simple if you just read a little bit about the subject ! it's not brain surgery here and not much more difficult than mixing a good cocktail if you practice a bit.

I respect your view, mwa102464, though I disagree with it. The problem lies in the fact that no one needs 100mg liquids...and the fact that an accident could easily happen. Just 10 to 12 drops at that strength, absorbed through the skin, could kill an adult human.

Not everyone would think to use safety gear, let alone the right safety gear. Not everyone would realize the danger of what they're handling. And that is why this stuff, at this crazy strength, should not be sold to consumers.

There are plenty of safe bases out there, which minimize the risk of any mishandling accidents; those are what we should all be using.

 

[wood]

who are you to say what we need , you's dont need it so .... out and let the 100's that are using it be happy
i am glad all this came up before i took your advice buying 28mg nic for 5$ less than premix
and to be honest all your fear mongering is just making it more tempting to get the 100mg

 

[rachelcoffe]

who are you to say what we need , you's dont need it so .... out and let the 100's that are using it be happy
i am glad all this came up before i took your advice buying 28mg nic for 5$ less than premix
and to be honest all your fear mongering is just making it more tempting to get the 100mg

I'm a vaper who cares about the safety of you & everyone else here, wood. And on a selfish note, we care about our own personal access too.

When a consumer buys 100mg liquid, they're potentially putting the entire community's access to safe, normal levels of nic at risk.

How?

If an accident occurs...the media & public aren't going to focus on the millions of people worldwide who vape & use nicotine safely; they're going to focus on the lone schmuck who bought a deadly-level bottle & had an accident. And it'll become a rallying point to try & keep up from having access to normal flavourless liquids, like 28 to 36mg...or normal juices, like 18 to 24mg. That would suck so much. And how foolish would the people here talking about 100mg liquids feel if that happened? Pretty damn foolish.

I realize you were probably kidding, but if being warned away from something dangerous "just makes it more tempting" to someone...then there's nothing we can do for that person. Just illustrates how we need sensible, reasonable regulation in place so all this baloney can be put to rest.

 

[Pipeous]

ok one more...

how about simply emailing the seller rather than narking them out. it just feels so much like non smokers telling me I couldn't have a cigarette outside in a public park because my second hand smoke a 1/4 of a mile away from them might cause them harm. this isn't much different.

any knee jerk reaction to anything generally is overly dramatic. Rachel I appreciate all you do and consider you a friend as well, but concentrate your efforts on the good fight. turning in suppliers is for the ........s that are trying to stop vaping. elder is selling nic juice and not just unsafe levels (as is being discussed here). we certainly don't need more avenues of availability closed down over an opinion not shared by all. that's exactly what health canada is doing to vaping. they certainly don't need competition in the shut down department.

a saying comes to mind that really should fit here

it's much better to be consulted than insulted.

 

[rachelcoffe]

ok one more...

how about simply emailing the seller rather than narking them out. it just feels so much like non smokers telling me I couldn't have a cigarette outside in a public park because my second hand smoke a 1/4 of a mile away from them might cause them harm. this isn't much different.

any knee jerk reaction to anything generally is overly dramatic. Rachel I appreciate all you do and consider you a friend as well, but concentrate your efforts on the good fight. turning in suppliers is for the ........s that are trying to stop vaping. elder is selling nic juice and not just unsafe levels (as is being discussed here). we certainly don't need more avenues of availability closed down over an opinion not shared by all. that's exactly what health canada is doing to vaping. they certainly don't need competition in the shut down department.

a saying comes to mind that really should fit here

it's much better to be consulted than insulted.

On the above post, we're in agreement Pipeous. I may have been a bit inconsiderate earlier, and for that I apologize.

Glad things are good between us hon.

 

[lawnman3]

hello all its not safe to handle if you dont know what your doing .... but its so easy a cave man can do it with a e juice calculator ...

keep it simple....just be safe...

lawnman3....

 

[lawnman3]

hello mwa...

 

[wood]

I'm a vaper who cares about the safety of you & everyone else here, wood. And on a selfish note, we care about our own personal access too.

When a consumer buys 100mg liquid, they're potentially putting the entire community's access to safe, normal levels of nic at risk.

How?

If an accident occurs...the media & public aren't going to focus on the millions of people worldwide who vape & use nicotine safely; they're going to focus on the lone schmuck who bought a deadly-level bottle & had an accident. And it'll become a rallying point to try & keep up from having access to normal flavourless liquids, like 28 to 36mg...or normal juices, like 18 to 24mg. That would suck so much. And how foolish would the people here talking about 100mg liquids feel if that happened? Pretty damn foolish.

I realize you were probably kidding, but if being warned away from something dangerous "just makes it more tempting" to someone...then there's nothing we can do for that person. Just illustrates how we need sensible, reasonable regulation in place so all this baloney can be put to rest.

sorry if my tone isnt friendly too i dont want offend anyone but the fda has given up evn withh the 100mg being sold in the usa , u have no proof of it being as dangerous as you make it out to be and sorry to say but you have no experience with 100mg while many others do so you really cant speak of anythng except your over dramatic opinion

 

[rachelcoffe]

sorry if my tone isnt friendly too i dont want offend anyone but the fda has given up evn withh the 100mg being sold in the usa , u have no proof of it being as dangerous as you make it out to be and sorry to say but you have no experience with 100mg while many others do so you really cant speak of anythng except your over dramatic opinion

Wood, with all respect...if you don't believe me, then may we suggest that you ask any trained, certified chemist about it? They will tell you exactly the same thing - that's where we got our info.

I know you're a good guy hon, and we appreciate that. I apologize for things getting heated earlier today. Just please check up on these things with someone other than us, like a chemist. That way you'll see we're not trying to suggest draconian, unfair regulations...or give people a hard time over nothing. K?

Peace

 

[mwa102464]

Exactly Lawnman, anyone with any brains can work with 100mg, you would have to be a total idiot to not be able to work with it, I use it on a daily bases, and 12drop aren't gonna kill me if dropped on my hand and I wash it off right away, I have gotten it on my skin a few times. I enjoy using it in my mixing technique and my juice turns out great and yes it is so easy a caveman can do it as long as he takes an hour or so and reads a little bit about the handling technique and uses his brains.