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oh ouch! No need to call me an old lady...
(j/k!!!)Isn't it usually most always suggested to never dry burn a silica wick? I haven't followed the clearo's threads, I don't have a clue what's suggested for those.
Most of the talk here is referring to dangers in oxidizing the wick, but in my experience that would only be part of the problem. These genesis wicks are temperamental and can short at a moments notice. Those shorts and hotspots on mine have turned the wick mesh red , I can only imagine what it does on some of these 2/3 wraps LR coils short on a direct battery mechanical.
oh ouch! No need to call me an old lady...
Isn't it usually most always suggested to never dry burn a silica wick? I haven't followed the clearo's threads, I don't have a clue what's suggested for those.
Like all things on a Forum, there are some that Swear by Dry Burning. And there are some that Swear at It.
The Bigger Issue to me would be can Dry Buring an Atomizer Coil Create or Leave something Harmful?
If it Could or Does, that would be of Huge Concern to the people who do use Dry Burning as a Form of Cleaning.
Concerning the XC and XS Sleeves. I've used the XS (silica) sleeves but stopped for two reasons. First, you need to either put them into a kiln or torch them for a LONG time to burn off the sizing (I'm not sure that's what it is, but there is definitely something on it). Secondly, I found that fine particles would come off it. I haven't used the XC (ceramic version) but if memory serves me, MWA said it basically disintegrates after using it for a while.
Back to ss mesh. Since we know that you can use an unoxidized, or even a slightly oxidized wick, without shorts, doesn't that pretty much move ss mesh into the "not dangerous" club?
Back to ss mesh. Since we know that you can use an unoxidized, or even a slightly oxidized wick, without shorts, doesn't that pretty much move ss mesh into the "not dangerous" club?
Dry burning the coil? When the coil is dry burned, stuff falls off of it. We dry burn it with pulsating heat. If we were to use a steady heat, the coils would more than likely pop. A pulsating heat doesn't climb to outlandish degrees. The wick is removed as well, in order to clean the coils. I'm not quite comphrehending your (not you personally, but those who express these thoughts) wavelengths with this.
The flakes that don't burn off, are removed with a soft toothbrush or ... as Lord (?) once taught, we can heat the coil (wick removed of course), release the button, dunk coils (but not the mod doh) in cold (preferrably distilled) water and shock those boogers off of there. What sediment? It's cleaner than a whistle.
I'm removing myself from the thread for a spell, until I can see where you all are coming from.
Perhaps "oxidizing" isn't the proper word, perhaps we should officially call our prepping and cleaning of the wick something more fitting with the process?
Shorts cause nasty flavors... not too many vapers are willing to just "vape it like it's heaven" if the coil is shorting....
I can't wrap my brains around the panic. Sorry.
I don't recall anyone in Panic mode.
But some of us which have been thinking about Chromium Oxides, especially Hexavalent Chromium Oxides for awhile. Aand how they might relate to All vapers who use NiChrome Atomizer Wires.
BTW - Here is a vid on Dry Buring an E2 ( which was the Forerunner to the CE2 which was a Forerunner to All Modern Clearomizers ) for anyone who might be Confused as to what I am referring to Dry Burn an Atomizer Coil for Cleaning.
At the Temperature that the NiChrome Atomizer Coils was Heated to in this vid, what Chromium Oxides were Formed? And If Hexavalent Chromium Oxides were formed, could they Leach into the e-Liquid when a user fills this Carto?
Those Two Question I think are Important.
I believe half of us would've quit smoking MUCH sooner had there been a thread I various forums discussing the various dangers and chemicals in a single cigarette. This is certainly very informative thread, as long as it doesn't deter a new vaper from joining us in vaping rather than saying "oh crap, this is just as dangerous".
I personally am not sold on the notion that burning a coil for a 5 second pull intensifies enough heat to SS mesh to raise any toxic lifts off the said mesh. I CAN, however, see more of an impact for those that blast long and heavy torches at their mesh for an extensive length of time (5, more minutes). I use the PetarK. Aside from the pulse burning to adjust hotspots, I feel that there would have to be quite a few chained lengthy vapes to even come close to the temps required to eradicate anything harmful. I have changed to vaping silica (GG) as most of my attys and shied away from gennies (not for this reason at all, but for personal reasons). The silica alone could certainly generate its own thread of concerns.
Ill certainly keep reading. I just also newbies to use your own judgement and filtering here. Smoking definitely presents much higher health risks.
I personally am not sold on the notion that burning a coil for a 5 second pull intensifies enough heat to SS mesh to raise any toxic lifts off the said mesh. I CAN, however, see more of an impact for those that blast long and heavy torches at their mesh for an extensive length of time (5, more minutes). I use the PetarK. Aside from the pulse burning to adjust hotspots, I feel that there would have to be quite a few chained lengthy vapes to even come close to the temps required to eradicate anything harmful. I have changed to vaping silica (GG) as most of my attys and shied away from gennies (not for this reason at all, but for personal reasons). The silica alone could certainly generate its own thread of concerns.
Ill certainly keep reading. I just also newbies to use your own judgement and filtering here. Smoking definitely presents much higher health risks.
No PANICS??? ...How about THIS?...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...oking-alternatives-ss-mesh-4.html#post8607680
No PANICS??? ...How about THIS?...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...oking-alternatives-ss-mesh-4.html#post8607680
Maybe I should have phrased that Better.
No Panic... In this thread.
I really have no clue if chromium is being formed, I guess it could be.
The only evidence I have seen after searching is that Cr(VI) is formed from stainless steel, is that when stainless melts CR(VI) is formed. This is pertinent to welding particularly. Although, even then, most of the Cr(VI) measured is from welding rods used as consumables.
Now, while we may be getting stainless to some pretty high temps in preparing a wick, I think we are not close to the melting point. Cooks have been using stainless still in ovens and cooking utensils for ever. I have not found any warnings about creation of Cr(VI) with regard to cooking. That tells me that the temperature must be significantly higher than typical cooking temps.
I wonder about industrial ovens? Are there limits on their temperature because of the danger of Cr(VI)? Or are the temps required actually at or near the melting point?
The OP has made a provocative statement about not giving a wick to his enemies, but has not provided any details from testing to support that attitude.
I am not saying he doesn't have evidence somewhere, but to make these statements and run off without further comment is not acceptable in my view.
The only evidence I have seen after searching is that Cr(VI) is formed from stainless steel, is that when stainless melts CR(VI) is formed. This is pertinent to welding particularly. Although, even then, most of the Cr(VI) measured is from welding rods used as consumables.
Now, while we may be getting stainless to some pretty high temps in preparing a wick, I think we are not close to the melting point. Cooks have been using stainless still in ovens and cooking utensils for ever. I have not found any warnings about creation of Cr(VI) with regard to cooking. That tells me that the temperature must be significantly higher than typical cooking temps.
I wonder about industrial ovens? Are there limits on their temperature because of the danger of Cr(VI)? Or are the temps required actually at or near the melting point?
The OP has made a provocative statement about not giving a wick to his enemies, but has not provided any details from testing to support that attitude.
I am not saying he doesn't have evidence somewhere, but to make these statements and run off without further comment is not acceptable in my view.
Grieve High Temperature Industrial Bench Ovens
Here is an oven up to 1000f with stainless interior.
So that tells me 1000f is safe.
This one goes to 600c
http://carbolite.thomasnet.com/view...-high-temperature-laboratory-ovens?&forward=1
Here is one to 750c (1382f for us americans)
http://carbolite.thomasnet.com/view...50-176c-air-recirculating-furnaces?&forward=1
Here is an oven up to 1000f with stainless interior.
So that tells me 1000f is safe.
This one goes to 600c
http://carbolite.thomasnet.com/view...-high-temperature-laboratory-ovens?&forward=1
Here is one to 750c (1382f for us americans)
http://carbolite.thomasnet.com/view...50-176c-air-recirculating-furnaces?&forward=1
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I’m not saying that the Color/Temp chart is correct in Post #1. But for the moment, say it is.
Look at the Color of the Coils being Dry Burned in the Vid I posted. Then match the Color of the Coils to the Temp on the Chart.
It Isn’t Exact. And Color is somewhat Sunjective. But Approximately, How Hot did the Coil Get in at the End of my Video?
Is that Safe?
A few words about the use of Kanthal. It is well known that after annealing at temperatures above 1000 C, Kanthal is covered with aluminum oxide layer (see post http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...teel-mesh-oxide-discussion-4.html#post8595125 ). This layer prevents oxidation of the remainder of the wire. The reason is that the diffusion rate of oxygen from air to the unoxidized Kanthal through the already formed aluminum oxide layer is extremely slow. An example of the microstructure of a section of Kanthal wire is shown here:
The thin dark layer on the right-hand side is aluminum oxide. Aluminum oxide is not volatile (at least at typical vaping temps) and is safe for health. In addition, this layer can act as an insulator.
The thin dark layer on the right-hand side is aluminum oxide. Aluminum oxide is not volatile (at least at typical vaping temps) and is safe for health. In addition, this layer can act as an insulator.
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Ulmer is this layer the same as what we get from 'anodizing' aluminum?
Thank you for the micrograph, you've tickled this pathologists tummy...how was that taken?
Thank you for the micrograph, you've tickled this pathologists tummy...how was that taken?
Yes, this layer is the same (Al2O3) compound when soluble aluminum salts are used (see e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodizing ).
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A few words about the use of Kanthal. It is well known that after annealing at temperatures above 1000 C, Kanthal is covered with aluminum oxide layer (see post http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...teel-mesh-oxide-discussion-4.html#post8595125 ). This layer prevents oxidation of the remainder of the wire. The reason is that the diffusion rate of oxygen from air to the unoxidized Kanthal through the already formed aluminum oxide layer is extremely slow. An example of the microstructure of a section of Kanthal wire is shown here:
The thin dark layer on the right-hand side is aluminum oxide. Aluminum oxide is not volatile (at least at typical vaping temps) and is safe for health. In addition, this layer can act as an insulator.
Is it possible to somehow put the layer of aluminum oxide to work at insulating from SS mesh?
I have no idea. I am not qualified to make that judgement.
Further, I don't know at what temperature CR(VI) forms. I know it forms when stainless steel is melted. Does it form at some point prior to melting? Maybe. What is that temp? Well I see industrial ovens that are lined with stainless steel rated at over 1300F. If in fact CR(VI) was forming at that temperature, I would guess I would find reference to that some where.
The OP stated there weren't any at 600F but wouldn't give the 1300F wick to his enemies. I just want to know details of what was found, if indeed there was a test.
I am seriously hoping it is safe as I have become dependent on stainless steel wicks. I don't intend to just drop them without some scientific basis.
I will say that today I re-wicked without the "oxidation" process I used before - jack frost I think it is called. I just rolled the wick did some juice burns and eventually it worked. Hopefully, it was less then 1300F, but I did notice some glowing during the burns. At any rate, I will adopt this method going forward even though it was much harder to set up.
I do appreciate the OP looking into this, and prompting me to be more careful to use the minimum heat I can to get the wick to work. I just wish he would provide more detail as to what he found.
Yes, but the test was crude, that is why I have sent and am sending new samples to a independent lab for a refined test.
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