Stainless Steel mesh, Oxide discussion.

[the ob]

it would be helpful to those of us who are just "not that smart" if every once in a while, someone posted a summary post that those of us who are not scientists could understand

I am being smart assey, but also I would love to know in simple terms, what the group has decided here

thanks!

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Perhaps those who understand the situation will post a summary statement when this concludes.

 

[Jimi D.]

As for now I'm using silica sleeves over the SS mesh. My unoxidized started to short on me again. I just wanna vape, not tinker all day.

 

[Kurt]

A Typo?

I thought this was a Peer Reviewed Document?

If this document contains Typos, then the document is not very valid. Or do we just take whatever we don’t like, or don’t understand and Brand it a Typo?

Typos are not uncommon in peer-reviewed articles. You and the reviewers and the editor try to find them all, but some do slip through. There are a couple in mine.

 

[Boden]

As for now I'm using silica sleeves over the SS mesh. My unoxidized started to short on me again. I just wanna vape, not tinker all day.

I was thinking about this yesterday. Couldn't you just put a small piece of Fiberglass sleeve around the top of an unoxidized wick and then wrap the coil. Something like this stuff: #D1200 DAFLEX Braided Fiberglass Sleeving

 

[Kurt]

it would be helpful to those of us who are just "not that smart" if every once in a while, someone posted a summary post that those of us who are not scientists could understand

I am being smart assey, but also I would love to know in simple terms, what the group has decided here

thanks!

No real decision yet. waiting for test results to show if Cr(VI) is present from torch oxidation of a SS wick. Based on scientific articles it seem it might not be, but will be good to know for sure. There is a question as to if it is formed and available depending on torch temperature (some get very hot).

 

[zoiDman]

Typos are not uncommon in peer-reviewed articles. You and the reviewers and the editor try to find them all, but some do slip through. There are a couple in mine.

Seems like for what we are doing, trying to do, a typo about Hexavalent Chromium would be a Worst Case Scenario.

 

[Kurt]

I was thinking about this yesterday. Couldn't you just put a small piece of Fiberglass sleeve around the top of an unoxidized wick and then wrap the coil. Something like this stuff: #D1200 DAFLEX Braided Fiberglass Sleeving

Just an idea

Seems like a good idea, Boden, but then you have the whole silica (what it is) issue with particulates again.

 

[Kurt]

Seems like for what we are doing, trying to do, a type about Hexavalent Chromium would be a Worst Case Scenario.

Agreed. Some typos I have found in very reputable journals have actually lead to erroneous directions in my research! They happen, and sometimes they are a problem. This one seems more like an incomplete footnote than a typo. I am more interested in the test results than a paper from the 90s which may not represent the full temp range being used here.

@Boden: you may have said this, but do you know the temp of your torch? Given you background I am assuming it is very hot!

 

[urahara]

When do we expect the results from the lab? what is the estimation?
I always thought that the black color to be just carbon-like dust, and that the oxides remain in the mesh surface (as the outer layer) thus not pass to our e-liquid. I hope I won't be proved wrong in this, coz the oven you mentioned in the first page did not oxidize the mesh at all (300oC for an hour and measured it afterwords with a multimeter) and I'd need to find an other safe and standard way for my setup (these K methods are not good enough for me, when I'm at work I can't risk the genesis stop working and have shorts..I need it to be reliable at all times)

 

[EDO]

Seems like a good idea, Boden, but then you have the whole silica (what it is) issue with particulates again.

You can always use a tiny amount of cotton to go around the SS Wick for insulation.

For people having trouble with unoxidized mesh setups with 32g wire...you should know that it is far easier to use 30g wire and even better to use 28g wire with unoxidized mesh setups.... especially with a mechanical mod.

 

[Jimi D.]

I was thinking about this yesterday. Couldn't you just put a small piece of Fiberglass sleeve around the top of an unoxidized wick and then wrap the coil. Something like this stuff: #D1200 DAFLEX Braided Fiberglass Sleeving

I use this stuff XS-116 Silica Sleeving - Kidney Puncher I tried the small amount on the top first, but gunked up really fast. Now I'm vaping the entire wick with the sleeve, and is vaping very clean.

 

[Jimi D.]

Seems like a good idea, Boden, but then you have the whole silica (what it is) issue with particulates again.

And that's another test that has to be proven. We just don't have many materials to use here.

 

[DrMA]

I find the cotton works well and reliably. It does gunk up over a few days and requires more maintenance than bare SS, but it's a good alternative until a more effective solution can be found. I don't wanna deal with a finicky, fragile, and difficult to manufacture fused silica wick, though I would switch to ceramic in a heart beat if a reasonably priced option became commercially available.

 

[Chris474]

You can always use a tiny amount of cotton to go around the SS Wick for insulation.

For people having trouble with unoxidized mesh setups with 32g wire...you should know that it is far easier to use 30g wire and even better to use 28g wire with unoxidized mesh setups.... especially with a mechanical mod.

Yes, I find tearing off a very thin 1/2" x 1/2" wisp of cotton and the twisting it to be sufficient and actually has been delivering a much heavier vape. The cottony taste only lasted about 30 minutes this morning and is now not a factor. I can imagine that i'm going to have to change the cotton every other day or so but it is actually very easy and quick...2 minutes or so. Its not quite having to tinker.

So now, non-oxidized SS mesh with cotton is today's safe bet...I'm still very interested in trying the Pyrex as mesh hybrid wick...fused quartz/Pyrex, whatever...looks promising and very safe.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[theJuiceNinja]

Personal
Electronic
Nicotine
Inhalation
System

Bahah! Think ill avoid that acronym!

I have the original open source plans for the genny somewhere, will share when I get to my pc..

 

[Boden]

Seems like a good idea, Boden, but then you have the whole silica (what it is) issue with particulates again.

There are two types of silica, amorphous and crystalline. The silica fiber used in ecig wicks and electrical sleeving are amorphous, this form does not break down into the very small bits that cause silicosis. Even if they were deeply respirable, the amount (volume) of these fibers needed to cause enough mechanical damage to the lungs to be noticeable is basically impossible in ecig use. The natural airway defenses to particles larger than (aerodynamic diameter)(F*ds) ~4μm is very good and you would just cough it up or digest it.

The average diameter of a ecig wick fiber was ~8μm with a aerodynamic diameter of 16μm under fast inhalation velocity ~5m/sec.


Document Display | NSCEP | US EPA
Pathophysiology Treatment of Inhalation Injuries - Jacob Loke - Google Books
http://www.industrialventilation.ne...Impactor Data Reduction/Impactor_Park (1).pdf
What are the Effects of Dust on the Lungs? : OSH Answers
How Do Particulates Enter the Respiratory System? : OSH Answers
http://www.aeronautics.nasa.gov/pdf...ective_tile_care_and_handling_precautions.pdf
http://www.specialtygaskets.com/files/silicacloth-12.pdf


Edit: If you didn't guess, I've done some reserch on this as well: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ca-wick-not-safe-will-help-5.html#post7846987

Next day edit:
I just spent the afternoon looking at some samples of silica wicks donated from friends and vivi novas and a few venders. All were in the 20-32μm diameter range. Seems like the really small ones have gone out of fashion. I'll post some pics in a bit.

 

[Boden]

Agreed. Some typos I have found in very reputable journals have actually lead to erroneous directions in my research! They happen, and sometimes they are a problem. This one seems more like an incomplete footnote than a typo. I am more interested in the test results than a paper from the 90s which may not represent the full temp range being used here.

@Boden: you may have said this, but do you know the temp of your torch? Given you background I am assuming it is very hot!

The butane flame was burning at ~1350C (2462F)

calibration was based on this

 

[Kurt]

Seems this setup with SS mesh and coil is causing the coil to ground to the body of the RBA. So how about something non-metal for the body of the RBA? Maybe even wood? This would obviously be a manufacturer's problem, but there are plenty of heat-resistant composites that could be machined and used. Job for a 3D printer?

There may also be heat-resistant epoxys that one could dip the end of the wick in, remain attached to the wick, and be flexible, while adding a dielectric between the coil and the wick. Heat resistant, however, may not mean it does not give off anything in the vapor.

Just tossing things out...

 

[100%VG]

Seems this setup with SS mesh and coil is causing the coil to ground to the body of the RBA. So how about something non-metal for the body of the RBA? Maybe even wood? This would obviously be a manufacturer's problem, but there are plenty of heat-resistant composites that could be machined and used. Job for a 3D printer?

There may also be heat-resistant epoxys that one could dip the end of the wick in, remain attached to the wick, and be flexible, while adding a dielectric between the coil and the wick. Heat resistant, however, may not mean it does not give off anything in the vapor.

Just tossing things out...

Hi Kurt,

Just tossing THIS out there...

Why not just drill out the hole that the SS Mesh Wick is inserted into, line it with a Silicon Sleeve (a material like those within other devices like the Vivi Nova, etc.), insert the Wick through that, and insulate the Mesh from the Ground like this? There are Silicon Sleeves available with a T-Top, to keep it from slipping through.

All this talk about Epoxies, Dip Treatments, etc., for the Mesh, and Ceramic Paints for the Coil, etc., just sounds a bit overboard to me, and frankly, it Scares me. No insult intended, but I don't see a wooden RBA body being practical. And what kinds of Materials are used in a 3D Printer? Could that even remotely be safe for Vaping? I really don't know, but why?...

The thought of moving to other materials for the RBA (or any Tank, etc.) seems ludicrous to me. More unknowns. Let's just stay with our SS Devices (or whatever metals they are made of), and adjust them as necessary. There are easy ways to insulate, if the Wick is being Grounded to the RBA, and a Silicon Sleeve is one.

It also seems to me that the most common problems are not really due to anything being Grounded, but more due to the Coils shorting out on the Mesh, when said Mesh is no longer Oxidized by Torching, and the Coil is not Oxidized at all, either. Cyrus found a wonderful way to prevent this, without oxidation of the Mesh, by a kind of Glow Burn of the Coil, keeping it Wet with Water (some people use Juice). That's quite a few pages back by now, but I'm sure that Cyrus would be happy to give you an update, maybe even jumping in to post what works for him again. I'm sure that others have their own success stories as well. But it's really more a matter of Technique.

Another problem is wrapping the Coil too tight around the Mesh. Another Technique issue. People are using Ribbon Kanthal with much greater success. Others are using regular Kanthal of a larger Diameter than 32 AWG.

Please... let's keep it simple, or at least as simple as possible.

There's my