Steeping Times and an Ultrasonic Cleaner Part III

[solardrgn]

im thinking about getting one of these, but would using plastic bottles still work?

also whats the cheapest 30 min timer anyone has found? and is a heat option necessary or can i just use hot water?

thanks!

 

[bobalex]

... is it ok to use UC without the lid?

No lid ... no problem. I've never used the lid. My bottles are too tall. But ... I make sure the juice inside my bottles isn't above the "max" fill line of the tank. Does that make any difference?

I Don't Know.

 

[bobalex]

im thinking about getting one of these, but would using plastic bottles still work?

also whats the cheapest 30 min timer anyone has found? and is a heat option necessary or can i just use hot water?

thanks!

Hey solardrgn,

... but would using plastic bottles still work?

Yes they do. I used 'em over the last year with great results before switching to glass for quicker results.

... whats the cheapest 30 min timer anyone has found?

I think this one mentioned by dannyv45:

Amazon.com: Joy4Less Professional Grade Ultrasonic Cleaner 4810, 30-min Timer, Plastic Basket: Health & Personal Care

Mine was a bit cheaper but only has an 8 minute cutoff.

... and is a heat option necessary or can i just use hot water?

I like it but if it's an option that costs more $$ ... hot water from the tap works just as well. The ultrasonic cleaner I have has the heat option and I think it's only missing from the really cheap models.

 

[gtseng]

Wondering if you can just put your bottles in the cleaner without water in the cleaner itself? Will this be better?

 

[bobalex]

Wondering if you can just put your bottles in the cleaner without water in the cleaner itself? Will this be better?

That would be bad. It'll burn out.

 

[solardrgn]

thanks! i think ill stick with the cheaper ones then haha

 

[Odysseus]

Interesting thread and innovative use. Months ago I hijacked my wife's jewelry cleaner, filled it with vodka and I use it to clean my tanks. Never thought of using it to steep juice. A couple issues to consider - oxidation and churning or lack thereof. Not sure it is an adequate substitute for steeping time and I wouldn't buy one for this purpose, but I may try it if I find myself short. I don't see any harm. The heat from mine is very gentle and a plastic tray isolates contents from the heating source.

 

[bobalex]

... Not sure it is an adequate substitute for steeping time and I wouldn't buy one for this purpose ...

Hey Odysseus,

When I was in ninth grade we had to memorize the Odyssey. Since then every time I see the word “Odysseus” I remember the one and only line of the epic poem I can remember, “I am Odysseus, son of Laertes.”

Now that that brain burp’s out of the way …

My first batch of juice was a naïve foray into DIY land. I bought a liter of 100mg nic, a gallon of PG, and three concentrated tobacco flavors. I friend of mine told me about eJuice Me Up, I downloaded it, plugged in the numbers, and set about making my first batch. I made Desert Ship, Cowboy, and DK Tobacco. And then I vaped/tasted each one.

They tasted all the same and the taste, though not terrible, had nothing to do with the tobacco flavors I was used to. What had I done wrong? I followed the instructions perfectly. I clicked over to ECF, found the DIY subforum, and learned I hadn’t done anything wrong. All I had to do was wait. I read every post about steeping I could find.

While I was waiting for the requisite number of weeks to pass I tried speeding the process along. I gave the bottles a warm bath. I shook ‘em up. I let them sit with the bottle caps off. And then I tasted/vaped again. No Change. Right around the second week I could tell the flavors were getting there. At the third week mark they finally “arrived.”

It was starting to look like in order to be a successful DIY juice maker I needed two qualities I don’t have: The ability to plan ahead and patience. Not wanting to cave into the need to acquire a discipline (other than not killing myself handling 100mg nic) I was trying to figure out how to speed up the steeping process.

The problem was obvious. Using the suggested strength of 1 - 2% flavoring … how could I get it to mingle molecularly with the rest of the 98 -98% nic/PG mix?

The next batch was shaken regularly and given more warm baths. The caps stayed off. And it still took 3 weeks for the tobacco flavors to mature. And then I had an “Ah-Hah” moment. I had a cheap ultrasonic cleaner I originally bought to clean cartos and now was being used to make Liposomal Vitamin C.

I made up a new batch, put the bottles in the cleaner (caps on), filled the tank to the “max” line, and turned it on. 3 minutes later I tasted/vaped. No Change. So I turned it on again and again and again throughout the day. And the next day. And when I sampled the juices They Were Ready. And I’m not saying they were passably vapable … they each tasted like they were supposed to after steeping 3 weeks. 2 days in an ultrasonic cleaner = 3 weeks on the shelf.

At the time we were going through a lot of home-made Liposomal Vitamin C. You can Google it and see why it’s a neat thing. It was time to upgrade to a larger ultrasonic cleaner so I didn’t have to make a Vitamin C batch every other day. The new ultrasonic had an 8 minute timer and a heating option.

My first batch of juice made with the new cleaner was ready to vape in about three hours. The combination of a more powerful cleaner with heat was demonstrably better than the cheap model I’d used. I was using 100ml plastic bottles. Changing to glass bottles cut the time by an hour.

So … 2 hours in the ultrasonic cleaner = 3 weeks of steeping.

The steeped juices I made tasted great. I was very happy with them. I have no desire to go back to “retail” e-liquid. The e-liquids I make in the ultrasonic cleaner are every bit as good as the steeped juices. I can’t tell the difference. I can say for me, the juices I make, Desert Ship, Cowboy, DK Tobacco, and now 555, an ultrasonic cleaner is an adequate substitute for steeping time and I would urge everyone who’s seriously into tobacco flavored DIY juices to buy one for that purpose.

I’m not trying to be a jerk about this. I just had to answer your post because my experience doesn’t jibe with your conclusion. My only regret about the entire process is I didn’t see the cleaner with the 30 minute timer before I bought the one with the 8 minute timer.

 

[Mdemon]

I'm convinced and got this

Amazon.com: Joy4Less Professional Grade Ultrasonic Cleaner 4810, 30-min Timer, Plastic Basket: Health & Personal Care

I hope the wife will be kind to me when I break the news

Same one i have. Works wonderfully with all the bells & whistles
Let her know about all the nice, shiny sparkling clean jewellery she's gonna have lol

Hey Mdemon - I'm a limited DIY guy. What the heck is acetyl pyrazine and where do I get some? The ECX 555 is a dynamite tobacco flavor so if I could get just a touch of the nuttiness/popcornish element ... not as much as the "retail" 555 ... I'd be really happy.

AP is a basically a flavor molecule with a nutty taste. It's very strong so a little goes a looooong way. Some people tend to detect the taste more easily than others.
You're using the TobaccoExpress 555 & your juice is all pg?
If so, you'll probably be around 2-4% to get good flavor right?
Considering you want to bump the nuttiness just a smidge I'd strongly suggest starting with 1 drop in 10ml & go from there.
Too much AP you may just get Fritos flavored juice lol

I like high VG so my basic mix for 10ml of 555 is:
30PG/70VG
6% ecx555
3%EM
4 drops AP
(1% Vanilla-optional sometimes but goes great in the mix for a delicious variation)

For tobaccos especially I'd highly recommend getting some ethyl maltol (EM) & using that in place of/in addition to sweetener.
It sweetens slightly as well but also rounds out flavors (especially tobaccos) & gives more "body" & mouth feel to vapor than just sweetener. It goes in everything I mix.

EDIT: Oh & 3 hours in UC (little more time cuz of the VG) & beautiful, mature juice ready to vape!
(post back on track & relevant to thread once again lol)

 

[Mdemon]

@ bobalex Thank you for the tips. I've been using glass bottles as well, but put those inside the plastic bag in the tank, I'm trying the result pretty good after 4 hours GUCEing, if I don't use plastic bag the liquid will be contaminated by the water, my UC is very small even the 10ml glass bottle cannot fit with the lid, unless I open the lid, is it ok to use UC without the lid?

Hi vikky. The plastic bag reduces the effectiveness of the ultrasonic waves drastically so you'll get a better result without it. Are you GUCEing with the caps off? Just close the caps tightly & check them every hour or so. Water level only needs to be up to the level of the liquid in the bottles anyway.

Wondering if you can just put your bottles in the cleaner without water in the cleaner itself? Will this be better?

OF COURSE IT WILL BE BETTER!
For the ultrasonic cleaner sales guy you'll have to buy a replacement UC from at least...

Interesting thread and innovative use. Months ago I hijacked my wife's jewelry cleaner, filled it with vodka and I use it to clean my tanks. Never thought of using it to steep juice. A couple issues to consider - oxidation and churning or lack thereof. Not sure it is an adequate substitute for steeping time and I wouldn't buy one for this purpose, but I may try it if I find myself short. I don't see any harm. The heat from mine is very gentle and a plastic tray isolates contents from the heating source.

Oxidation is...well...oxidation. Breathing is breathing. Neither are steeping.
Steeping is allowing the molecules in the juice to meld/bond/mix together & to quote Hoosier, reach a "stable entropic condition".

As far as "churning", well that's kinda what the UC is doing, albeit at a micro level. This IMO is what makes it so effective since the ultrasonic waves vibrate the molecules of the juice at a level far beyond what you can do by hand & bond to a degree normally only accomplished with time.
All those molecules bumping together hastens & facilitates steeping which is why you get such a drastic reduction in the time it takes for your juice to "mature".

My experience: if the juice doesn't taste better after running through a couple UC cycles, then it probably didn't need much steeping in the first place. And that's the best it's gonna get, whether after a day or a month. Most of my juices though, you can actually see, smell & taste the change in color, scent & flavor cycle after cycle.
All i can say is give it a try if you get the time or inclination. You won't be sorry.

 

[gtseng]

Dear Bobalex, I know it will be off topic, but can you talk about your experience with Liposomal Vitamin C?

Hey Odysseus,

When I was in ninth grade we had to memorize the Odyssey. Since then every time I see the word “Odysseus” I remember the one and only line of the epic poem I can remember, “I am Odysseus, son of Laertes.”

Now that that brain burp’s out of the way …

My first batch of juice was a naïve foray into DIY land. I bought a liter of 100mg nic, a gallon of PG, and three concentrated tobacco flavors. I friend of mine told me about eJuice Me Up, I downloaded it, plugged in the numbers, and set about making my first batch. I made Desert Ship, Cowboy, and DK Tobacco. And then I vaped/tasted each one.

They tasted all the same and the taste, though not terrible, had nothing to do with the tobacco flavors I was used to. What had I done wrong? I followed the instructions perfectly. I clicked over to ECF, found the DIY subforum, and learned I hadn’t done anything wrong. All I had to do was wait. I read every post about steeping I could find.

While I was waiting for the requisite number of weeks to pass I tried speeding the process along. I gave the bottles a warm bath. I shook ‘em up. I let them sit with the bottle caps off. And then I tasted/vaped again. No Change. Right around the second week I could tell the flavors were getting there. At the third week mark they finally “arrived.”

It was starting to look like in order to be a successful DIY juice maker I needed two qualities I don’t have: The ability to plan ahead and patience. Not wanting to cave into the need to acquire a discipline (other than not killing myself handling 100mg nic) I was trying to figure out how to speed up the steeping process.

The problem was obvious. Using the suggested strength of 1 - 2% flavoring … how could I get it to mingle molecularly with the rest of the 98 -98% nic/PG mix?

The next batch was shaken regularly and given more warm baths. The caps stayed off. And it still took 3 weeks for the tobacco flavors to mature. And then I had an “Ah-Hah” moment. I had a cheap ultrasonic cleaner I originally bought to clean cartos and now was being used to make Liposomal Vitamin C.

I made up a new batch, put the bottles in the cleaner (caps on), filled the tank to the “max” line, and turned it on. 3 minutes later I tasted/vaped. No Change. So I turned it on again and again and again throughout the day. And the next day. And when I sampled the juices They Were Ready. And I’m not saying they were passably vapable … they each tasted like they were supposed to after steeping 3 weeks. 2 days in an ultrasonic cleaner = 3 weeks on the shelf.

At the time we were going through a lot of home-made Liposomal Vitamin C. You can Google it and see why it’s a neat thing. It was time to upgrade to a larger ultrasonic cleaner so I didn’t have to make a Vitamin C batch every other day. The new ultrasonic had an 8 minute timer and a heating option.

My first batch of juice made with the new cleaner was ready to vape in about three hours. The combination of a more powerful cleaner with heat was demonstrably better than the cheap model I’d used. I was using 100ml plastic bottles. Changing to glass bottles cut the time by an hour.

So … 2 hours in the ultrasonic cleaner = 3 weeks of steeping.

The steeped juices I made tasted great. I was very happy with them. I have no desire to go back to “retail” e-liquid. The e-liquids I make in the ultrasonic cleaner are every bit as good as the steeped juices. I can’t tell the difference. I can say for me, the juices I make, Desert Ship, Cowboy, DK Tobacco, and now 555, an ultrasonic cleaner is an adequate substitute for steeping time and I would urge everyone who’s seriously into tobacco flavored DIY juices to buy one for that purpose.

I’m not trying to be a jerk about this. I just had to answer your post because my experience doesn’t jibe with your conclusion. My only regret about the entire process is I didn’t see the cleaner with the 30 minute timer before I bought the one with the 8 minute timer.

 

[bobalex]

Dear Bobalex, I know it will be off topic, but can you talk about your experience with Liposomal Vitamin C?

Hi gtseng,

Sure.

Years and years ago I read the minimum daily requirement of vitamin C was about 120mg. But that amount is inadequate when you factor in the multiple stressors present in today’s environment. Many nutritionists recommend taking 10 - 30 times that amount. Massive doses of Vitamin C pretty much kick heart disease and some cancers to the curb. The problem was that taking that much Vitamin C orally isn’t the most efficient way to utilize the vitamin. Since we only get 17 - 20% taking C in pill form, we'd have to take over 15 grams of C to get the amount nutritionists recommend. And swallowing 15 grams of C daily makes for GI upset as well as way too many trips to the bathroom.

Intravenous Vitamin C does the trick. But who can afford to go to the doctor’s office every day for a shot of Vitamin C? So some bright boys figured out how to make Lypo-Spheric (Liposomal) Vitamin C. The bioavailability of Vitamin C in pill form is 17-20% vs. the Lypo-Spheric’s 90%

But … the cheapest retail Lypo-Spheric Vitamin C I’ve found is over a dollar per dose. So that’s more than $3.00 a day per person … forever.

But then some brighter boys figured out how to make “home-made” Lypo-Spheric (Liposomal) Vitamin C. Anybody with a blender and an ultrasonic cleaner can do it. The bioavailability of the home-made version is about 70% vs. the 90% you’d get with the retail stuff. But DIY Vitamin C is way cheaper.

Here’s how I do it:

Pour 3 cups of water in a blender. Add two tablespoons of Vitamin C powder and blend on the lowest speed for 2 minutes. Then, while the blender is still running, add 6 tablespoons of Non-GMO Lecithin Granules and continue blending for 5 minutes. Then pour the mixture into an ultrasonic cleaner and run it (heat cycle off) for 16 minutes stirring every 8 minutes or so.

There you go. 24 doses of home-made Liposomal Vitamin C.

The Vitamin C powder and the Non-GMO Lecithin Granules will run you about $35 (Send me a PM and I’ll tell you where to get them) and you can make about 300 one ounce doses at about one tenth the cost of the retail stuff.

Here are a couple of videos of people making Liposomal Vitamin C:

*LIPOSOMAL ENCAPSULATED VITAMIN C - As Effective As IV - DIY for Pennies, 8ALOHA.COM* - YouTube
How to Make Liposomal Vitamin C At Home - YouTube

The first couple of times I made it as shown in the videos the mixture separated slightly after a couple of hours. I tweaked the procedure with every new batch until I came up with the method previously described. Now I get zero separation.

Health benefits?

Over the last year my wife, son, and I take an ounce with every meal. And we seems to have avoided the flu (so far so good) and I caught a mild cold that only lasted a couple of days.

Elementary schools are like Centers for Disease Control where everybody’s always dropping test tubes of the plague. My son is in the seventh grade. Every year since he entered kindergarten he’s brought home something that laid me low for a couple of weeks. But since we’ve been taking Liposomal Vitamin C over the last year … nothing. Placebo effect? Who Cares! I’d gladly take a sugar pill every day if it warded off the flu.

There. That’s my Liposomal Vitamin C story. We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

[dannyv45]

I like high VG so my basic mix for 10ml of 555 is:
30PG/70VG
6% ecx555
3%EM
4 drops AP
(1% Vanilla-optional sometimes but goes great in the mix for a delicious variation)

For my T5 (555)

I add 1% AP in 75/25 PG or 6 drops per 30ML

And a touch of EM (Sweetner) 1% or 6 drops per 30ML

The sweetner gives it that slightly sweet nutty texture on the tounge during the draw without changing the taste of the tobacco and a really nice nutty taste and nutty smell on the exhale. I find any more then 1% AP is to strong of a nutty taste to almost corn chippy and masks the tobacco flavor.

 

[gtseng]

Thank you , that's very informative!!

Hi gtseng,

Sure.

Years and years ago I read the minimum daily requirement of vitamin C was about 120mg. But that amount is inadequate when you factor in the multiple stressors present in today’s environment. Many nutritionists recommend taking 10 - 30 times that amount. Massive doses of Vitamin C pretty much kick heart disease and some cancers to the curb. The problem was that taking that much Vitamin C orally isn’t the most efficient way to utilize the vitamin. Since we only get 17 - 20% taking C in pill form, we'd have to take over 15 grams of C to get the amount nutritionists recommend. And swallowing 15 grams of C daily makes for GI upset as well as way too many trips to the bathroom.

Intravenous Vitamin C does the trick. But who can afford to go to the doctor’s office every day for a shot of Vitamin C? So some bright boys figured out how to make Lypo-Spheric (Liposomal) Vitamin C. The bioavailability of Vitamin C in pill form is 17-20% vs. the Lypo-Spheric’s 90%

But … the cheapest retail Lypo-Spheric Vitamin C I’ve found is over a dollar per dose. So that’s more than $3.00 a day per person … forever.

But then some brighter boys figured out how to make “home-made” Lypo-Spheric (Liposomal) Vitamin C. Anybody with a blender and an ultrasonic cleaner can do it. The bioavailability of the home-made version is about 70% vs. the 90% you’d get with the retail stuff. But DIY Vitamin C is way cheaper.

Here’s how I do it:

Pour 3 cups of water in a blender. Add two tablespoons of Vitamin C powder and blend on the lowest speed for 2 minutes. Then, while the blender is still running, add 6 tablespoons of Non-GMO Lecithin Granules and continue blending for 5 minutes. Then pour the mixture into an ultrasonic cleaner and run it (heat cycle off) for 16 minutes stirring every 8 minutes or so.

There you go. 24 doses of home-made Liposomal Vitamin C.

The Vitamin C powder and the Non-GMO Lecithin Granules will run you about $35 (Send me a PM and I’ll tell you where to get them) and you can make about 300 one ounce doses at about one tenth the cost of the retail stuff.

Here are a couple of videos of people making Liposomal Vitamin C:

*LIPOSOMAL ENCAPSULATED VITAMIN C - As Effective As IV - DIY for Pennies, 8ALOHA.COM* - YouTube
How to Make Liposomal Vitamin C At Home - YouTube

The first couple of times I made it as shown in the videos the mixture separated slightly after a couple of hours. I tweaked the procedure with every new batch until I came up with the method previously described. Now I get zero separation.

Health benefits?

Over the last year my wife, son, and I take an ounce with every meal. And we seems to have avoided the flu (so far so good) and I caught a mild cold that only lasted a couple of days.

Elementary schools are like Centers for Disease Control where everybody’s always dropping test tubes of the plague. My son is in the seventh grade. Every year since he entered kindergarten he’s brought home something that laid me low for a couple of weeks. But since we’ve been taking Liposomal Vitamin C over the last year … nothing. Placebo effect? Who Cares! I’d gladly take a sugar pill every day if it warded off the flu.

There. That’s my Liposomal Vitamin C story. We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

[vikky]

Hi vikky. The plastic bag reduces the effectiveness of the ultrasonic waves drastically so you'll get a better result without it. Are you GUCEing with the caps off? Just close the caps tightly & check them every hour or so. Water level only needs to be up to the level of the liquid in the bottles anyway.

@ Mdemon Thank you for the tips. I did with the caps on, for 4 hours for my 100%vg, is this enough? the taste was quite good but after let it rest for 1 night in fridge, it was even better. Regarding your 555 recipe how many ml/drops of EM and AP each for 100% VG? I have used commercial PG%VGmixed liquid, it dries my lips, well some of them were more than 50% PG, I may try 10% PG to get more throat hit for my future DIY juice

 

[Mdemon]

Hi Vikky.
4 hrs should be enough for most flavors. Really depends on if its a flavor that needs a long steep time or not. If it tastes good, then yeah! its long enough.
About 2-4 drops AP in 10ml should be good depending on your sensitivity to AP & the effect you're going for.
I measure my EM with a syringe so 3% in 10ml should be 0.3ml or about 10 drops from a TPA bottle.
If you want it even sweeter you can add Sweetener to taste as you'd like. I find the EM sweetens the 555 enough by itself but sometimes I do add 1% Sucralose to bump up the sweetness a bit.

 

[dannyv45]

Hi all

I got my UC today and have a question. As suggested I rubber banded 4 bottles of juice I wanted to steep. Filled the unit up to the MAX line with water and placed them in the UC and the bottles sitting againced the metal bottem make a heck of a racket. I then took a rubber bottle top remover (It's very thin and about 4" round) and placed it on the bottom and sat the bottles on that. this pretty much eliminated the noise. Do you think this will effect the units operation or steeping efficency?

 

[bobalex]

Hi all

I got my UC today and have a question. As suggested I rubber banded 4 bottles of juice I wanted to steep. Filled the unit up to the MAX line with water and placed them in the UC and the bottles sitting againced the metal bottem make a heck of a racket. I then took a rubber bottle top remover (It's very thin and about 4" round) and placed it on the bottom and sat the bottles on that. this pretty much eliminated the noise. Do you think this will effect the units operation or steeping efficency?

Did your UC come with a basket? I've read it's best not to have whatever you put in there come into direct contact with the bottom of the tank. But ... I read that after making 3 batches without the basket/insert. I think the main deal is not put anything in there that would absorb the UC voodoo waves.

And ... I don't think it's necessary to fill all the way up to the "max" line. I just fill until the water level in the tank is at the juice level in my bottles. I make 70ml at a time so the fill line is above the "min" line on the tank.

 

[dannyv45]

Actually I'm using 1oz glass bottles and at max water level the water is just at the bottle fluid level. It does come with a basket but it says that the basket obsorbs 30% of the waves so this is why I went with the rubber mat on the bottom. It seemed to me that this uses less water area and would be more efficent. As long as I won't damage the unit (I don't really see how this can) I'll run this batch for a few hours and see if it's doing the job. If not I'll use the basket. I just like that the rubber mat vertually eliminates all the sound and the unit runs very quiet. The wife can't here a thing

 

[bobalex]

Keep us posted at the 2 (maybe 3) hour mark. Your juice should "arrive."