square tube mech was the first thing that popped into my minds eye. i can't help it.
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I see this sentiment a LOT, but that is a cop out. If you've never had one die on you it's only because thus far you've always been lucky.
TL;DR self-discipline in cohort with knowledge and the capability to convert knowledge to logical thinking might not be your strongest point, but that still doesn't make everyone else equally as stubborn stupid, ignorant or clumsy as you. Your assertion that the risk level inherent of a given person's ability to make mistakes necessarily always outweighs the level of risk resulting from the potential failure of a regulated mod's built-in safety protections is just that, an assertion, and in fact it is a contradiction because the people who design and manufacture these protections are people who can also make mistakes, but the worst part is hidden in this other fact, that a LOT of people assume these protections make it 100% safe, which is making them fundamentally more dangerous because these people see that as a pretext, a reason to not educate them about the safety. So you can argue about this till hell freezes twice, it still won't magically turn your false argument into a valid one. That's just what stubborn stupid totally means.
I have never had one die on me, because I buy quality products, not cheap devices considered disposable by their manufacturer.
I see false name calling is your strong suit, stick with that because reading comprehension and application of common sense obviously fail you. I never said regulated mods are 100% safe. Nothing is. They are in fact safER though. Just like wearing a seat belt does not guarantee survival in a crash, a regulated mod does not guarantee safety either. However, both have a greater chance of avoiding serious injury in the event something does happen. Also you failed to comprehend the part where I said I already KNOW how to use a mech properly and choose not to, but you still claim I must just not know anything. Contrary to your false belief, not everyone that chooses to use a regulated mod is stupid or lazy and no matter how many times you repeat it to yourself in the mirror it will not make it true. Vaping is about harm reduction not absolute safety. The safest thing to do is not use either type of device. I eagerly await your next temper tantrum.
Edit: I will give you this. There are certain brands of regulated mods that I do not consider safer even though they are regulated. We all know who they are.
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Everybody knows that @bombastinator loves to argue and is very good at creating very heated argumentative discussions.
Just tell him that you don't fancy sparring today
No, it's more fun with Ephraim and less fun when people I actually like are arguing.
I'm going to call this page "The Passion of the Mech Mod with some Guns Thrown in" and send it to Mel Gibson. He could do it justice in a filmic way, and by that I mean, I came out of that movie, going, "JESUS, Jesus, taking yourself a bit seriously aren't you? I mean YEAH you died on the CROSS for us and all, but DUDE, could you give it a REST every now and then?"
And it was JESUS I was talking to.
Back to your corners until you can play nice.
Anna
I'm going to call this page "The Passion of the Mech Mod with some Guns Thrown in" and send it to Mel Gibson. He could do it justice in a filmic way, and by that I mean, I came out of that movie, going, "JESUS, Jesus, taking yourself a bit seriously aren't you? I mean YEAH you died on the CROSS for us and all, but DUDE, could you give it a REST every now and then?"
And it was JESUS I was talking to.
Back to your corners until you can play nice.
Anna
I'm not even sure why anyone would presume I want to avoid the forum rules. Sounds slippery.
If the "balloon effect" is what bothers you too much about using mechs, then I have no argument against that. Excepting only maybe you could still decide to try using a pair of A123 systems ANR26650M1-B cells in something like, e.g., The 99 by Vapergate, but anyway, it's just an option to maybe want to consider, and, there's pros and there's cons about everything so I'm not forcing anyone to change their own personal preferences about vaping.
Some like to cry online about the safety with every chance they get online, whereas some others spend more time educating themselves properly about the safety so yeah, you can surely bet that everyone is different, yet, despite this, my purely logical definition of a slippery caveman living his slippery life inside a slippery cave in a certain way that is slippery remains still unchanged, and that makes me feel happy.
Your education is deficient in this area because you're constantly trying to convince others they are going to make the same mistakes you did, which makes it fairly obvious TBH.
As for the difference in how the vape feels, my theory is that the chip inside a regulated mod can't leave unscathed the raw, inherent, typifying preheat curve that occurs from the initial spike that characterizes the voltage sag behavior of the battery in a mech. I don't believe the short delay between pressing the fire button and the chip's response of actual firing of the coils has got something to do with it, and also I don't believe the slight shakiness or waviness of the regulator circuit's power output signal can be felt by vaping, at least not if we can assume the regulated mod we're talking is anywhere near half decent of course, which IMO includes I'd say pretty much the vast majority of regulated mods these days. Bypass mode, or direct mode essentially defeats the whole purpose of going for the mech vape experience, as by definition mech is without electronics because any electronic circuit still interferes with the power output signal that traverses it. Training wheels on a bicycle quickly become ballast after you learned how to ride your bicycle without them. It precisely is why so many people ride their bicycle without training wheels, and, if you shout at them about that, usually it doesn't take very long before they start shouting back. If you still insist on shouting at them, I would recommend that you shout, preferably as loud as you can, "Hey Sir, yer wheel is turning!"
Due to the fact mech users generally select harder-hitting batteries to achieve better performance with their mech, it forces them to stick with a high CDR. Even if they decide (despite it isn't recommended) to exceed the CDR of the battery they select, then the high CDR battery contains less goop when compared to an equal size high capacity battery, and, less goop usually translates to a less violent reaction when they vent. In addition, if you stay at or below the CDR with your mech, the chance of a battery venting is actually pretty slim. I'm not trying to downplay the seriousness of a battery venting, but battery venting in a sturdy tube mech that has a couple of small-ish vent holes that are strategically placed with the correct battery orientation to correctly clear the path between the score line on the battery that pops open and the vent holes is nowhere nearly as scary as a battery going into thermal runaway.
To force a battery to enter thermal runaway, you'd have to abuse the battery really, REALLY hard. Thermal runaway doesn't normally happen without any clear prior warning signs excepting if you short circuit the battery. Short circuit prevention verified correctly everywhere throughout the entire circuit of both the mech, the atomizer, the connection between the mech and atomizer, the coil build in terms of the resistance, the accuracy of the ohms reader, the coil stability also in addition to that, the space that separates the coil build from the build deck and the cap, and also meticulously looking for any kind of damage anywhere or a loose screw or a stray piece of metal lurking in a small corner, etc. is compulsory on a mech, and to any novice mech user should be as trivial as short circuit prevention inside the battery compartment of a regulated mod. Should be.
So you have to familiarize yourself with all of the mechanics of your mech setup, and you have to reliably inspect every part of it, before the first use and during regular maintenance or if you have any reason to suspect damage despite normally you handle it responsibly in such a way that damage cannot occur. Top to bottom, inside and outside. If it doesn't fire, don't press the button again until you correctly figured out what's causing it to not fire.
Sure, the battery can still start to overheat if you're not careful with a mech. But that's why you shouldn't let the battery temperature get hot, instead just give it time to cool down before you pulse it again, and don't hold the button down for too long, i.e. familiarize yourself with how fast the battery you select for vaping in your mech heats up with how you vape with your specific coil build. To be able to familiarize yourself with this, just frequently pull out the battery and keep holding it with your fist wrapped tight around the battery so you can feel how warm it gets, don't EVER let the button get pressed for a long time by accident (nor on purpose, for that matter...) so if you're going to put a live mech in your pocket (despite it isn't recommended) you better be sure it doesn't start to auto fire in there (i.e. by choosing a mech the design and construction of which clearly lends itself to be sure despite they're still going to tell you it isn't recommended of course, as you might be so stupid that you might still press it one day, but anyway...). Always be ready to safely immediately disarm your mech quickly without panic in the possible event that the button gets stuck, be sure to notice it if it gets stuck, don't panic, and, always carry a towel.
It isn't false name calling, when my argument re your stubborn stupid behavior is still perfectly valid. For starters, I never said that you said regulated mods are 100% safe. Instead, I said that the fact a regulated mod has built-in safety protections is, by a LOT of people, being used for a pretext to perpetuate they are "safe", thereby they are causing a false sense of security that makes them more dangerous because it effectively obfuscates the widespread need for education about the TRUE safety factors. Speaking of your next temper tantrum, the tale that the vast majority of regulated mod users are adequately aware of this need is for the fairies. So I'll just conclude by stating that my description of stubborn stupid is both suitable and well founded.
So now that you have trippled down on your claim that the vast majority of people on this forum are stupid and lazy because they choose not to use mechs, I have to wonder, why do you associate with us? Perhaps you would be better suited on a forum about mech mods exclusively where you can be with other people that suffer from delusions of grandeur.
it did. It’s a serious problem here, though less lately. This weekend I learned the term for the type being used. It’s called “dog whistling”. Not sure if that applies in the given situation at all I honestly don’t remember the whole thing very well.
it isn’t. I’m willing to carry more batteries. I like having not to but it’s jot that big a deal.
I’m not sure what point you are attempting to make there, though I can agree that as a general rule happy is good as long as it doesn’t make others in turn sad.
which area? You never defined that. Your personal slippery caveman happiness?
not exactly. The mistakes I made I hold in evidence that making those mistakes is possible, and that merely believing those mistakes will not be made, which I also did, will not keep them from happening
it? Still short on defining objects here. you haven’t defined an it yet.
not impossible. Unhindered theory, and I know of no testing though it wouldn’t be hard to do. Not afaik impossible though
[/QUOTE]
I don't believe the short delay between pressing the fire button and the chip's response of actual firing of the coils has got something to do with it, and also I don't believe the slight shakiness or waviness of the regulator circuit's power output signal can be felt by vaping, at least not if we can assume the regulated mod we're talking is anywhere near half decent of course, which IMO includes I'd say pretty much the vast majority of regulated mods these days.
[/QUOTE] also not impossible. Much like the above point experience is subjective
didn’t you just say you DIDN’T believe that though?
the analogy of training wheels on bicycles is questionable in this case though I think. Bicycles are held up by centripetal force in the moving wheel. There is self sustaining support. Training wheels merely help achieve the speed required for that self sustainability. Mech dangers do not reduce with use or velocity. Unicycles might be a better one. They require constant concentration and the balancing of vectors in a much more direct way. Perhaps riding a unicycle on lava floor since a fall means you may not get up again. Floors didn’t used to be lava, and they may solidify again in the future with new safer battery tech, but right at this minute? Lava. Still OK as long as you don’t fall, but bad if you do. Our difference seems to be you claim “I won’t fall” and I reply “maybe, but you’re not the only one trying to ride one of those contraptions. People have fallen. I personally am going to trundle my nice Schwinn here until I see solid floor again, and I’m going to keep pointing out lava floor as long as it is there. Also the schwinn does seem to be handier for actually getting places even if it is too complicated, more expensive and not as cool looking”
mostly what I shout, to attempt your analogy with my modification is “don’t keep telling people they should just get up and ride unicycles! bicycles are faster and take less concentration to get places with. You’re going to get them killed for no particularly good reason!” Still not a very good analogy and it’s use is imperfect in this case but I hope the direction is sufficient for my aim there.
not impossible. I’ve always wanted to see venting tests done on various modern batteries myself. Venting energy release is an unknown for me. Your claim though assumptive may possibly be correct
True. The problems occur when the CDR is exceeded though such things as a firing button staying on, a short, or other such events
I’ve had old batteries go into full thermal runaway. In my pocket. It wasn’t good, but I’m ok. Old style batteries in old mechs were more or less fine. The old mech philosophy of “I can hold whatever this battery does” worked really well. With old style batteries. If old style batteries could still be had I’d merely be yelling “use the right batteries!” The problem is they’re not.
true. And if that weren’t so easy to do by accident it wouldn’t be an issue
or leave the button pressed down for a long period by, say, setting it down on something that isn’t flat and then not paying attention to it when the warning signs start to present themselves
part of the problem. It’s not. It’s merely a really good idea. Compulsory means “you’re not allowed to no do it”
Just because mechs are more obviously dangerous does not make them actually safer. That’s the standard old “danger is safety” doublethink problem
another difference we have I think. I don’t believe people who lose concentration for a second deserve to die. We’d all be dead for one thing. Yeah yeah “you won’t fall”. I would say just because you haven’t yet doesn’t mean you won’t ever. It only needs to happen once. I’m not here to take your unicycle away. I’m just pointing out that there are safer ways to travel.
unicycle safety is laudable. What’s your point?[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
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I never said people who choose not to use mechs necessarily always are doing so due to being stupid or lazy. Perhaps you would be better suited on a forum where people use strawman arguments like this to still desperately continue to repeat their failed attempts at covering up their own delusions of grandeur.
It's pretty sad when you can't even remember what you said. Either that or you are just being dishonest. Either way, I'm done responding to your nonsense in this thread. This doesn't mean I dislike you and if you post in other threads and can show some semblance of cordiality without resorting to name calling, then I look forward to seeing that. Until then I say good day sir.
Wow. And I thought DonPalms was mad at me for saying mechs aren't popular.
Guess I really was wrong. Turns out, they're the most popular thing for starting a fight around here. And the most popular thing for inducing War and Peace sized posts.
Guess I really was wrong. Turns out, they're the most popular thing for starting a fight around here. And the most popular thing for inducing War and Peace sized posts.
I'm beginning to give up on reading posts here, despite initiating this thread.
The thing about the internet, ECF etc etc is this tendency to call people names and/or throw out insults to them.
I disagree with almost everyone about almost everything. LOL.
One can do this calmly and civilly and rationally.
Do the insulting and name calling face to face in the "real" world and get punched in the mouth.
Come on, grow up, calm down.
The thing about the internet, ECF etc etc is this tendency to call people names and/or throw out insults to them.
I disagree with almost everyone about almost everything. LOL.
One can do this calmly and civilly and rationally.
Do the insulting and name calling face to face in the "real" world and get punched in the mouth.
Come on, grow up, calm down.
Yeah, I laugh to myself about how brave some of these people would be face to face. Always reminds me of this:
I don't own a dog, although recently I've been considereing to get the limited edition Hammer Of God "Hellhound" mech mod from Vaperz Cloud, but still nevertheless I can't whistle very well.
If slippery makes you feel sad, then don't wet the floor I guess.
It's the area of being able to correctly distinguish between 1/ your own faulty assumptions that appear to be driven primarily by your own personal fear and 2/ true knowledge about battery safety as it applies to responsibly using a mech. Nothing's terribly wrong with being afraid of using a mech because after all nobody has denied that there are some risks involved with vaping on a mech, and in fact nothing's terribly wrong with choosing to stay away from using a mech for whatever other reasons a person might have, BUT... to use slippery caveman tactics to desperately try and skew other people's perceptions about the safety is still a deficiency I'll always remain happy to fix, and that is regardless of how sad you might feel about that.
I never said that merely believing those mistakes will not be made will not keep them from happening. Instead, I said that self-discipline in cohort with knowledge and the ability to convert knowledge to logical thinking will, and will do so probably not always, but frequently enough to invalidate the claim that regulated mods necessarily always are safer, which brings me back to my point, that regulated mods are not "safer", as this level of safety factually depends on things like the ratio of how much time you spend lecturing others versus the time you spend educating yourself. So again, I think you should go spend some time reading up on what is the definition of a strawman argument.
It = your being naturally inclined to still continue to be slippery enough that you constantly keep moving the flag poles in another slippery attempt to recover your previous lost argument.
Subjective, yes. But based on an honest opinion, not the kind of old slipperiness that would allow you to tout that advanced coils aren't worth the trouble even though you hadn't tried anything that can remotely be called representative of them, and, not the kind of old slipperiness that involves creating your own slippery talk show re the subject of whistling at dogs.
No. Instead, I said I don't believe that the short delay that occurs after pressing the fire button on a regulated mod and the slight shakiness/waviness of the power output signal from a regulated mod are in any way part of the reason why I can clearly feel the difference on the vape. I.e., personally, I, believe the only plausible explanation of why this difference is so large and distinct is that the voltage sag behavior of a battery in a mech gets transferred onto the power output signal of a mech in such a way that the shape of the curve that results from the voltage sag is left unscathed through absence of electronics, thus causing a mech to preheat the coils in a whole different fashion. It's only a theory of course, but one that appears to make genuine sense to a guy like me, because I am a pragmatist. It doesn't quite bother me that it is subjective, as the very purpose of having turned vaping into a hobby of mine, which is to subjectively enjoy a hobby, ultimately is subjective also, anyway in the first place. That's why hobbies are still popular. At least, that's my other theory of course.
My knowledge is a fundamental part of what defines me. Ergo, self sustainability is the secret of my success, and, lava is what can be found near the bottom of the deep, slippery hole you so eagerly have been digging yourself into.
As you keep digging the hole, you're not in a position to know what exists up on the surface that surrounds the hole. Your bicycle has fallen into this same deep hole where, for reasons that are obvious, nobody can ride it, and, the more you shout, the more people can see it's damaged a few too many brain cells after it fell. Remember people are responsible for their own safety. How they deal with safety is the determining factor, by and large. For this reason, you're not in a position to judge their relative safety, as their relative safety greatly depends on their own adult self. Pedantic, slippery old tactics on a forum aren't going to change this fact. So by all means, please, keep digging the hole.
It's not just an assumption. There can be some exceptions to this, but the general truth applies.
Yes of course problems can occur when the CDR is exceeded, but that doesn't also mean problems can't occur when it isn't exceeded. When someone asks "how much is safe", I recommend to stay at or below the CDR, and, next, I let them decide for theirself how much they want to learn additionally about battery safety so that, because they are an adult too, they can feel free to vape how they want to vape.
Several many of the new style battery choices from "The Big 4" (Sony/Murata, Samsung, LG, Panasonic/Sanyo) or from Molicel, if used correctly they can help to improve the safety whilst at the same time also giving equal or better performance vaping on a mech when compared to vaping on a mech by using older battery tech, used correctly. The "used correctly" doesn't help everyone, as not everyone uses them correctly, but that applies to using regulated mods as well.
Whether it's easy or not is something that as a matter of fact depends on the person who causes the accident, or who causes it twice (...).
Exactly. That's also my point, that the relative safety depends, to a very significant extent, on the person's ability to know the risks, understand the risks, take the necessary steps and precautions to mitigate the risks where possible by paying attention in the appropriate sense of the word; so if either you can't or you won't learn and understand the risks and pay every bit of serious attention like needed in order to be able to call it responsible type of behavior, then you shouldn't blame that on mechs by generalizing them nor blame that on mech users by generalizing people who use mechs. That's a huge part of the reason why regulated mods aren't inherently safer. I.e., you shouldn't project your own personal shortcomings on objects by judging objects that either you can't use or you don't want to use.
Figure of speech with a bit of sarcasm, cynism, and mostly lots of irony. Compulsory = you already tried to blow yourself up twice so seriously I just HAVE to recommend that you don't do it. As for "danger is safety", again, these are your words, not mine, as built-in safety protections and various complexities related to them often tend to raise the potential to add more danger by creating an invitation to not using them [these built-in safety protections of a regulated mod] correctly for their intended use and to add more danger by creating an invitation to not educate oneself properly about battery safety, as a result from the fact a lot of people perpetuate they are "safe", and perpetuate it not till you blow yourself up twice, but rather, perpetuate it till hell freezes twice, or, to be more accurate, perpetuate it till people like you can know when they've lost an argument.
This isn't about people who lose concentration for a second. Rather, it is about your persistent failure to grok the concepts inherent of relative safety, and that your ridiculous over-generalizations don't apply to every adult person alive, and also it is about your continuing to travel down the hole as you keep digging the hole that you've dug yourself into.
My point is you are still continuing to travel down the hole as you keep digging the hole that you've dug yourself into.
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