Taste is subjective - My Backsides!
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I think all Vendors should be "up front" with steeping info.
I'd rather DIY because of all of the flavors out there luring me making me crazy when half the time I really don't like them. I'd rather not like something I tried to make and fix it or toss it ( hasn't happened YET) than throw away money on premades anymore. Some recipes that are great take like 5 minutes and your vaping. I usually stick with 10 ml size because I get tired of flavors even when they're great. A couple at the moment, pomgranite and chai tea I have 30 ml because I use them the most, last a good month switching around with new flavor. So you've heard already the cost difference. The no waiting for a new flavor treat ( unless you're a steepaholic, which I'm not...YET) well anyway. I just got in a bunch of new flavors sample size and been doing just that. It's instant gratification, no high expectations and easy. I don't write down what I do. I just smell and guess, start tasting in an atty adjust and quit before I do too much messing ( this might be the steeping period) and then beef it up or tone it down later if it needs it. Well, obviously a perfectionist would be horrified. Actualli we all are very decerning about our tastes, various as they are. Maybe it's me but 80 percent of the juices for sale or too mild. It's like they are afraid to go bold because the flavor ain't that great. OR it's too strong trying to be the guy that sticks out. I don't envy you guys who have to depend on the juice vendors. I gave them the old college try and did learn a lot.
I bet if you give DIY a try you'll go through about the same thing. It'll be the concentrates not being what you expected rather than the juice. Not only is taste subjective its not even stationary. I vape a lot of one particular juice and it changes flavors on me all the time, out of the same bottle. Luckily I like all the permutations except when it completely disappears. I doubt it's the juice so it has to be my tastes changing. Not only is your taste different than mine, mine is different than mine depending on who knows what!
This is the reason we discuss ejuices and vendors on this forum isn't it?
If a vendor can't provide a decent description of the flavor, I'm not buying it. If they have a reputation for making less than tasty products, I look elsewhere. There are enough well discussed, well reviewed, and accurately described flavors from reputable vendors to at least minimize disappointing purchases. If a reputable juice doesn't suit your tastes it can be easily sold, traded, or paid forward.
If a vendor can't provide a decent description of the flavor, I'm not buying it. If they have a reputation for making less than tasty products, I look elsewhere. There are enough well discussed, well reviewed, and accurately described flavors from reputable vendors to at least minimize disappointing purchases. If a reputable juice doesn't suit your tastes it can be easily sold, traded, or paid forward.
Steeping should be done by vendors. I'd rather be told order 2 weeks in advance and get the juice at its best than have to figure out how to make it not taste like trash. Fanboys also need to stop recommending juice just to help out their buddies.
99% of the time I've tried the "OMG get this juice!" I am disappointed.
The other thing, stop skimping on flavor there is plenty of profit to put a couple more drops in to give it a real kick.
Sent from my Nexus 4
99% of the time I've tried the "OMG get this juice!" I am disappointed.
The other thing, stop skimping on flavor there is plenty of profit to put a couple more drops in to give it a real kick.
Sent from my Nexus 4
It seems like there is a huge variety of ways to "replicate a flavor", especially when you get into the more complex ones involving a large number of individual flavors in varying amounts. (How many drops of vanilla go in the "pineapple chocolate cherry crumb cake coffee cinnamon cupcake juice??) It is also because the way we experience these flavors is not the way we normally would experience taste. It's smell and taste truly wrapped together a bit differently. But what one person thinks is a spot on perfect replication of an apple, tastes like a chemical coated jolly rancher to the next person lol. Everyone's taste may very well be subjective, there are people here who would knock an old lady down to get ahold of Pluid. I had to throw away a perfectly good vivi nova and hazmat everything that came in contact with it
I cannot comprehend how anyone could appreciate that, but it definitely made me respect how varied folks tastes are. Heck my wife and I love the same foods, but haven't agreed on a juice we both like ever!
I cannot comprehend how anyone could appreciate that, but it definitely made me respect how varied folks tastes are. Heck my wife and I love the same foods, but haven't agreed on a juice we both like ever! 
except many vendors i have dealt with have provided me the answer "taste is subjective" when i ordered a vanilla flavor and it tasted like everclear, even after a week with the cap off. Which is why i no longer do business with them.
i'm sure i have a bottle of Feekal Madder Juice around here somewhere.
Many out there do. It's up to you to find out who does and who does not. Seek, and ye shall find. Knock, and the door will be opened unto you. EDIT: If you have a problem with steeping juices yourself, skip that vendor and shop from one sells pre-steeped juices. Look at my signature. Vaporcast sells amazing pre-steeped juices.
I doubt there's an ulterior motive going on when someone (a fanboy) genuinely likes a juice and wants to suggest it to someone else. If there's a fire burning under a specific vendor, it's because a lot of people are stoking the flames. Obviously that vendor is pleasing a lot of people; just because you're not one of them, doesn't make the vendor's patrons fanboys.
I understand what you're saying and where you're coming from. But if 99% of the time someone suggests to you, "OMG get this juice!", by now you should be savvy enough to make your own informed decision.
This is almost exactly the case at my house. We have a few we agree on but it's rare. Although now that I think about it, she's always the one that likes and steals my juice, not the other way around. Hmm...Heck my wife and I love the same foods, but haven't agreed on a juice we both like ever!
On topic, taste is absolutely subjective. Sure there are some flavors that are simply off and crap. I'm not denying that and never will. But we all taste different things in everything we eat, drink and vape.
In my house, we both love to eat caramel. Vaping, is another matter. She's found multiple caramel juices she loves and juices with caramels as one of the flavors. Me, usually I loathe vaping caramel. It tastes horrible and ruins any juice. I've tried every one of her caramels and only liked one.
You know, I'd have to disagree with some of the points made early in the thread.
Not only is taste subjective in the sense that different people like different things, but people also have different ranges of taste, the same way they do hearing and vision. There's a very high-pitched hum many CRT tubes give off, for example, that drives me up a wall. It's one of the reasons, to this day, that I rarely ever watch TV. Most people can't hear it. I just happen to be able to hear at that frequency, even though there are things other people hear clearly that I don't.
Taste works the same way (particularly when the customers are former smokers who may have an impaired sense of taste). A juice may taste very different to me than it does to you. There may be certain taste "frequencies" that I either can or can't taste, and you may experience the exact opposite. That's one of the reasons you see so many juices described so many different ways. It's also one of the reasons that a juice, for a lot of people, may taste like a dead-on copy of something, but to you it's not even close. Not only is taste subjective, but sometimes flavors can be as well.
Not only is taste subjective in the sense that different people like different things, but people also have different ranges of taste, the same way they do hearing and vision. There's a very high-pitched hum many CRT tubes give off, for example, that drives me up a wall. It's one of the reasons, to this day, that I rarely ever watch TV. Most people can't hear it. I just happen to be able to hear at that frequency, even though there are things other people hear clearly that I don't.
Taste works the same way (particularly when the customers are former smokers who may have an impaired sense of taste). A juice may taste very different to me than it does to you. There may be certain taste "frequencies" that I either can or can't taste, and you may experience the exact opposite. That's one of the reasons you see so many juices described so many different ways. It's also one of the reasons that a juice, for a lot of people, may taste like a dead-on copy of something, but to you it's not even close. Not only is taste subjective, but sometimes flavors can be as well.
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I would never, ever order pre-steeped juices. Taste is subjective, remember? Maybe I like that juice at one week. Maybe two. Maybe the point where I like it most is fresh out of the mailbox.
I do not want some vendor who thinks I want the same juice everyone else does. I buy from vendors who mix to my specs, and I decide how long they need to steep, not some vendor trying to accommodate the lowest common denominator.
I never add extra flavor to my juices. I don't want to be overpowered by them. I tend to like the more subtle ones.
You're making an assumption with both of these that what you want is what everyone else wants, and both of those assumptions are about as wrong as an assumption can get.
You seem to think people who recommend a juice you don't particularly like are "fanbois." I think you've got a pretty strange definition of "fanboi" that seems to mean "anyone who doesn't like the same flavors I do." Not that there aren't a lot of genuine fanbois around, but you may need to kick the ego down a notch if you genuinely believe that nobody out there could possibly like different things than you do.
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Maybe I should have included Extenuating Facts to my original post. Really didn't consider it at the time as it was my rant and honestly I had thought I was making a legitimate point about bad craftsmanship and a poorly used excuse to cover it at our expense.
I Have about a dozen vaping converts that like to compare notes so to speak. For them it is exciting to share their new experiences and for me it is continuing support. Several of us get together from time to time. We share our experiences with new tech and new juices.
As for sharing juice - Same sample on same device - Drip tip equipped - each using our own tips
While non of us share the same all day preferences( I still have none) and every one will normally reflect differently to some degree on
preference or dislike there are logical comparisons on overall achievement in replicating a flavor.
I fine it hard to believe those converted by seeing my Vaping and all preferring different ADV and even special vapes could possibly all have such similar taste buds as to agree on a decent flavor or one that seems to have been mixed with lard in an old tire.
Some say they would like (x) more if it was sweeter. Others may say it is a bit watered down, but all agree it is flavor (x) within reason.
That would, to me, be the subjective part.
When everyone says the(blueberry) is:
way to light on flavor
Tart/dry tasting
1 lady liked it. She said, because it is not sweet. We all agreed it was not at all sweet.
and The seller has it listed as a bold sweet flavor that taste just like blueberry, I no longer see it as subjective on a personal level.
This was just 1 of dozens of examples. The Burnt house in a bottle is a whole different experience.
Maybe the fault is poor choice of unpalatable flavoring from less than quality manufacturing.
Maybe some mixer are asking that we accept their subjective (lol) reference as to what a flavor should be.
Real, well equipped labs with trained scientist have done a fantastic job of replicating flavors and scents for many years. Many will disagree on the exactness of these but rarely will anyone say a Rose smell is a Lemon Oder.
I Have about a dozen vaping converts that like to compare notes so to speak. For them it is exciting to share their new experiences and for me it is continuing support. Several of us get together from time to time. We share our experiences with new tech and new juices.
As for sharing juice - Same sample on same device - Drip tip equipped - each using our own tips
While non of us share the same all day preferences( I still have none) and every one will normally reflect differently to some degree on
preference or dislike there are logical comparisons on overall achievement in replicating a flavor.
I fine it hard to believe those converted by seeing my Vaping and all preferring different ADV and even special vapes could possibly all have such similar taste buds as to agree on a decent flavor or one that seems to have been mixed with lard in an old tire.
Some say they would like (x) more if it was sweeter. Others may say it is a bit watered down, but all agree it is flavor (x) within reason.
That would, to me, be the subjective part.
When everyone says the(blueberry) is:
way to light on flavor
Tart/dry tasting
1 lady liked it. She said, because it is not sweet. We all agreed it was not at all sweet.
and The seller has it listed as a bold sweet flavor that taste just like blueberry, I no longer see it as subjective on a personal level.
This was just 1 of dozens of examples. The Burnt house in a bottle is a whole different experience.
Maybe the fault is poor choice of unpalatable flavoring from less than quality manufacturing.
Maybe some mixer are asking that we accept their subjective (lol) reference as to what a flavor should be.
Real, well equipped labs with trained scientist have done a fantastic job of replicating flavors and scents for many years. Many will disagree on the exactness of these but rarely will anyone say a Rose smell is a Lemon Oder.
Personally, if I like a juice I buy it. I don't think much about juices I don't like. I don't really care how accurate the flavor description is or isn't, just whether I like it or not.
This is one of my peeves! There are a few vendors I won't order from any longer because their stuff all has an overpowering alcohol smell/taste. I realize some flavorings have an alcohol base, but there really is no way to tell if this is what I need to avoid, or if it's in the manufacturing process the vendor uses (pre-steeping and whatnot). Understandably, there's some info the vendors just might not be willing to share!
Another peeve are the vendors with perfume or "chemical" undertones to their juices. This is next to impossible to guess before sampling.
The above peeves are not subjective, IMHO. None of these tastes should be in juice. Yet I must be one of the unfortunate ones that can notice them, because these vendors certainly have enough customers to stay in business!
I always order the smallest size when first testing a flavor. If a vendor does not offer sample size they do not get my business. That's just me though. When I find a vendor that has 3-5 flavors I like, I now longer keep ordering from different ones. At this point I will begin to try new flavors. My daughter loves this mint one which I hate, but it doesn't mean they are bad, it means I don't like it.
There are other options such as DIY your own juice. This way you make it the way you want and have control over it.
There are other options such as DIY your own juice. This way you make it the way you want and have control over it.
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This is one of my peeves! There are a few vendors I won't order from any longer because their stuff all has an overpowering alcohol smell/taste. I realize some flavorings have an alcohol base, but there really is no way to tell if this is what I need to avoid, or if it's in the manufacturing process the vendor uses (pre-steeping and whatnot). Understandably, there's some info the vendors just might not be willing to share!
Another peeve are the vendors with perfume or "chemical" undertones to their juices. This is next to impossible to guess before sampling.
The above peeves are not subjective, IMHO. None of these tastes should be in juice. Yet I must be one of the unfortunate ones that can notice them, because these vendors certainly have enough customers to stay in business!
I taste alcohol in some juices. With one vendor, it was ALL their juices... with another, it was just one of the juices I tried (and it was a distinct AFTER taste, whereas with the vendor whose juices all tasted boozy, it was a part of the flavor).
I know a lot of people who LOVE these vendors. I still am unsure of the alcohol flavor source.
Some flavorings have alcohol in them, some extracted tobaccos are extracted with alcohol. Take off the caps for a day or two and it will evaporate.
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