TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance

[TheBloke]

Yeah, Rob at Stealth vape told me that TCR of NiFe wire could only be guaranteed for annealed wire - so sounds like it applies generally?

In the case of SS, rather than torching as such, just a full dry burn should be OK I'd think? I thought Landman said he already did that prior to his tests ,but now I read again, he did the full dry-burn-to-glowing test last on the first 6/7 coil, and then made a new 5/6 for the water test.

So yeah, be a good idea to do a dry burn on a coil then use that same coil to do the water test; though not necessarily holding fire down for ages - just enough to make it glow briefly once, I'd say; ideally we don't want to exceed 900°C

 

[druckle]

Yeah, Rob at Stealth vape told me that TCR of NiFe wire could only be guaranteed for annealed wire - so sounds like it applies generally?

In the case of SS, rather than torching as such, just a full dry burn should be OK I'd think? I thought Landman said he already did that prior to his tests ,but now I read again, he did the full dry-burn-to-glowing test last on the first 6/7 coil, and then made a new 5/6 for the water test.

So yeah, be a good idea to do a dry burn on a coil then use that same coil to do the water test; though not necessarily holding fire down for ages - just enough to make it glow briefly once, I'd say; ideally we don't want to exceed 900°C

Yes, I think a dry burn would be likely to do it although it might be hard to know how effective the anneal was in removing the spring without being able to see if it bends easy. Maybe just dry burn a length not made into a coil see if it's "soft" and then wind the coil and dry burn again to be sure the work hardening that occurs during the coiling operation is removed before further testing. Or maybe a coil doesn't really have to be made at all to do the tests? Dunno.

Duane

 

[Landman]

Alright, torched it and wrapped another on the CM, 3mm rod - measured out to 3.04 so that's an improvement. I usually make one large loop on Ti for a brief dry burn to remove the spring. I actually torched this, but I'll try the loop dry burn next time. So this 5/6 ohm'd to 0.608, still bounce right at 230-233 degrees and res held at 0.682. Testing these on a old 28mm dripper. Time to build one for a subtank+ and see how it does.

 

[TheBloke]

Or maybe a coil doesn't really have to be made at all to do the tests? Dunno.

Yeah I often do tests with just stretches of wire. For most basic tests, like TCR, it can't make any difference: all the mod sees is a resistance figure. It could be a flat stretch of wire, a coil, or shaped like a unicorn. To the mod it's only a length of wire with a resistance value.

The only time I think it could make a difference is when I do 'real life' wet-coil tests with a soaked wick, ideally some source of fresh juice supply (or just a lot of trailing wet wick), and simulated airflow. In which case the shape of the coil, how the airflow hits it, how the juice cools the wire, etc, might play a part, because theoretically a smart mod maker could have designed their power algorithm according to expected real life conditions. Like, anticipating a certain amount of cooling commensurate with the wick being cooled by fresh juice/airflow and thus applying the appropriate amount of power to maintain it at temp. Not that I'm sure any mod maker has been that sophisticated - but at the least I thought I should try and be as realistic as possible when testing.

Besides it's often easier to hold a thermocouple in place if there's some coiling. Like trapping it between two slightly spaced wraps, pulling them apart with tweezers and inserting the probe and then letting them spring back and hold it in place. Or wrapping the wire directly over the probe lying on a piece of silica wick.

Alright, torched it and wrapped another on the CM, 3mm rod - measured out to 3.04 so that's an improvement. I usually make one large loop on Ti for a brief dry burn to remove the spring. I actually torched this, but I'll try the loop dry burn next time. So this 5/6 ohm'd to 0.608, still bounce right at 230-233 degrees and res held at 0.682. Testing these on a old 28mm dripper. Time to build one for a subtank+ and see how it does.

That's exactly how I used to 'torch' Titanium - a loop between two posts of an atomizer, pulsed at about 30W until blue.

 

[xpen]

(sorry about the late reply)
Hi, no problems at all with getting stuff from FastTech to Italy; as a matter of fact I do just that multiple times a year w/o a glitch.
You only need to be careful not to exceed a declared value of about 20 euro (per shipment) and that's it in my experience.
Italian customs seem much more picky about stuff coming from the USA, for some reason, than from China.. I learned that the hard way, for about half of my Evolv DNA chips got import duties applied, whereas Chinese goods never made a blip on their radar. Go figure..

It's a pleasure

The Koopor Mini does look to be a nice little mod. I have one on order from FastTech that I hope will ship tomorrow, and thus I hope to receive on Saturday.

Do you know of problems getting items from China/FastTech into Italy? I know that the Germans have such problems (which seem to be specific to FastTech), but here in the UK I have no problems at all. (...)

 

[druckle]

(
Italian customs seem much more picky about stuff coming from the USA, for some reason, than from China.. I learned that the hard way, for about half of my Evolv DNA chips got import duties applied, whereas Chinese goods never made a blip on their radar. Go figure..

We have the same sort of policy in the USA...Chinese goods are never even looked at by customs, but if it comes from anywhere in Europe it's DUTY time.

Duane

 

[atroph]

For a quick and dirty tcr method could you do the following:

Measure base resistance at ambient temp.

Place the coil in a cup of ice and water to get 0/32 C/F resistance.

Place coil in boiling water to get 100/212 C/F resistance.

Sum the resistance delta of the two and divide it by two.

Sorry if this was covered already but just popped in my head as this is what I do to get linear curves of automobile temp sensors for various projects. I figured it would work for vaping too.

Sent from my 0PJA2 using Tapatalk

 

[f1vefour]

Very nice.

 

[Landman]

It's vaping good so far but definitely wish it was 26ga. I'll try a twisted coil next. 5 wrap very slightly spaced, 3mm coil on ST+ reading 0.57 ohm.

 

[jazzvaper]

It's vaping good so far but definitely wish it was 26ga. I'll try a twisted coil next. 5 wrap very slightly spaced, 3mm coil on ST+ reading 0.57 ohm.

@Landman I scrolled back a bit though do not see what this refers to. Please clarify. Thanks.

 

[TheBloke]

All right, after the disappointment of the NotFi, some new stuff.

• New juice (Cuttwood Sugar Drizzle)
• New RTA (Merkava)
• New TCR mod (Apollo Reliant 60W)
• New wire (SS 304 - the properly labelled stuff, not Crazy Wire NiFaile)
  • 8 x 3.0mm 0.40mm wraps = 0.572Ω on SXM / 0.58Ω on Reliant.
  • VW dry burnt, after coiling, no change in Ω

Followed @vapealone 's chart, telling me 230°C is TCR 0.00104. So I set the Reliant to 11, thinking that at this low level it might not need much if any offset (the SXK mods, and their successor the Reliant, have an offset TCR scale: eg Titanium @ 0.0035 = 40, and Ni200 @ 0.006 = 70).

But at 11 it hit temp immediately, so up to 13. Still hitting temp and showing TP, but only after a couple of seconds. I'll leave it here for now. Might temp probe it tonight, might go to bed and do it tomorrow.

Vaping well so far. I'm liking the Reliant quite a lot. It's the SXK++. Same basic principle, with a lot of spit and polish. For example: quick switch button combo between VW, TC and Mech mods - no more dumb Evolv system of having to turn temperature to OFF and then dial it back in again. In TC mode, simple up/down for temperature control, but still with the ability to change the wattage, accessible via another combo. No obscuring of screen info with a full-screen 'Temperature Protection' message, instead a neat little 'TP' displayed in the gap in the middle.

Subjectively speaking, and perhaps most importantly, the TC seems smoother as well. Though I haven't tested it hard yet.

Which of these improvements are the work of Apollo, and thus to what extent SXK have developed themselves, we won't know until the new SXK Mini Zero is released.

 

[TheBloke]

@Landman I scrolled back a bit though do not see what this refers to. Please clarify. Thanks.

Unkamen's new Stainless Steel 430, with a TCR of ~0.0014. So more sensitive/accurate than the SS we are familiar with (304, 316, 317), but seemingly at the cost of not quite as good usability as it's a little springy.

 

[Landman]

@Landman I scrolled back a bit though do not see what this refers to. Please clarify. Thanks.

I got some SS430 from Unkamen in today, did some tests and loaded a coil into a ST+.

After going back and forth with Ti in one tank and SS in another over the last hour or so, I've gotta say... the SS does have a different flavor. I think it's the same difference of when I tried kanthal one time after a week or so on Ti. Maybe not as noticeable, but its different.

 

[f1vefour]

Which of these improvements are the work of Apollo, and thus to what extent SXK have developed themselves, we won't know until the new SXK Mini Zero is released.

Really you won't know then, it's not like SXK won't use the combined improvements in their new device

 

[TheBloke]

Better, worse, or just different?

 

[Landman]

Um, different. The Ti is a twisted 28/5 wrap that's seen maybe 100ml and this SS is just a single coil. I'm wrapping a twisted SS right now. Both are in ST+, same juice, similar temp/watts on Opus and Boxer DNA200's. I can't tell if it's got a different flavor due to the wire or it's just a bit muted with the SS... it's probably just the bonus of the twisted Ti.

 

[TheBloke]

Really you won't know then, it's not like SXK won't use the combined improvements in their new device

They might not be allowed to - depends on the contract. Apollo might have agreed to contribute manpower and let SXK keep the benefits, or they might have an agreement that states the Apollo improvements can't be used for future general SXK mods.

Or the "Apollo guy who went to China" might be a myth and it might be 100% SXK We already know that Apollo's blurb saying the mod was "Designed and developed in our Los Angeles laboratory" is at best disingenuous

But no, at the very least I would be surprised if the SXK had the Mech mode that the Reliant has. Not that that's at all interesting to me anyway, but at the least it's an addition that shouted itself out to me as being from/for Apollo, not SXK.

We'll know more in a few weeks with the SXK Mini Zero. I'm sure it'll have some of the improvements, perhaps most. I have seen one screenshot that may indicate that the proper TC mode with up/down of temp is in the new chip, as there's a big temperature number with a small wattage in bottom left. But it's far from conclusive because that's what the old Set Temp screen looked like as well, so they might have just captured that rather than it being the default at-rest screen.

 

[TheBloke]

OK first tank emptied, and nice quick reduction in vapour with no dry hits and no obvious pulsing.

Looking good for the wire and the Reliant. Well, more for the mod, we knew what the wire would be like

 

[druckle]

Um, different. The Ti is a twisted 28/5 wrap that's seen maybe 100ml and this SS is just a single coil. I'm wrapping a twisted SS right now. Both are in ST+, same juice, similar temp/watts on Opus and Boxer DNA200's. I can't tell if it's got a different flavor due to the wire or it's just a bit muted with the SS... it's probably just the bonus of the twisted Ti.

Could it be "new build syndrome" that makes it the 430 "different". I notice on almost every rewicking/recoiling that things taste a little different for a short while. I have a theory but it's ummmmmm unproven. Nevertheless the difference is always there and seems to go away after a tank or so. Let us know what happens after a couple days vaping with the new 430.

Duane

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

What is the difference between 316 and 430?