TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance

[TheBloke]

I dunno why Dicodes do things I haven't even heard about it before I came here. Patriotism maybe?

1. I do dry burn and make micro coils
2. The resistance listed on their page is definitely confusing It is two times higher than Ni. We have to look at μΩ/cm data which is: 19.95μΩ/cm Ni would be 9.6 μΩ/cm. I have listed Nifethal in my charts with 20.00μΩ/cm (=0.2 μΩ/m). With R28g=0.0247Ω/cm R26g=0.0155Ω/cm and R24g=0.0098Ω/cm so standard 10cm long build would be around 0.247-0.098Ω respectively
3. It is softer than Kanthal but definitely stronger than Ni. Actually it is very easy to work with. I like it more than Kanthal. You have to be a bit careful obviously but the result what I get on a Kuro is beautiful. I have to run now but later I can make some coils and take a few pix
4. I didn't tried on any VW but I am experimenting with TR vapes on mech mods but not with A120 generally (TM stands for Temperature Regulated here

Thanks a lot!

Re resistance, ah yes of course - stupid me I converted from feet to meters incorrectly (I used the datasheet that had Ω/feet). So yeah, double that of Ni200, which is 3/5th that of Resistherm.

OK so it's low, but not horribly low.

Great, very helpful. ResistanceWire.com have said I don't have to user a courier like UPS or FedEx, I could get it sent USPS which would be "a lot cheaper". Although now I check on their price calculator, that still seems pretty expensive - cheapest is $60, still more expensive than the wire

Could you do me a quick favour and tell me the dimensions of the spool your wire came on? Height/diameter? Maybe there's a smaller package size than I am assuming (12" in each direction)

I did finally get an answer from one UK supplier. The good news: really good value, £50 / $US 78 per kilogram - compared to $50 for 0.65 pounds / 0.25kg from ResistanceWire. So for $78 I would get about 1200 metres of wire (Not of course that I remotely need that..)

The bad news? Minimum order quantity five kilos! Oh well

 

[vapealone]

Thanks a lot!

Re resistance, ah yes of course - stupid me I converted from feet to meters incorrectly (I used the datasheet that had Ω/feet). So yeah, double that of Ni200, which is 3/5th that of Resistherm.

OK so it's low, but not horribly low.

Great, very helpful. ResistanceWire.com have said I don't have to user a courier like UPS or FedEx, I could get it sent USPS which would be "a lot cheaper". Although now I check on their price calculator, that still seems pretty expensive - cheapest is $60, still more expensive than the wire

Could you do me a quick favour and tell me the dimensions of the spool your wire came on? Height/diameter? Maybe there's a smaller package size than I am assuming (12" in each direction)

I did finally get an answer from one UK supplier. The good news: really good value, £50 / $US 78 per kilogram - compared to $50 for 0.65 pounds / 0.25kg from ResistanceWire. So for $78 I would get about 1200 metres of wire (Not of course that I remotely need that..)

The bad news? Minimum order quantity five kilos! Oh well

I will check when I got home however don't hope for much.
I ve tried to ask them to use some slower and cheaper option but it didn't go well.
I don't blame them tho. They are definitely loosing money on minimum orders like ours especially if we add the time spent on excessive emailing So I swallowed the option they offered.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[TheBloke]

I will check when I got home however don't hope for much.
I ve tried to ask them to use some slower and cheaper option but it didn't go well.
I don't blame them tho. They are definitely loosing money on minimum orders like ours especially if we add the time spent on excessive emailing So I swallowed the option they offered.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

No I already did ask them and they said yes So I can probably get shipping for $60 instead of $100+. Which is something, even if it's still more than the cost of the product

Yeah in my email to them I told them I understood if they couldn't do this, and that a response wasn't urgent etc.

He responded fairly quickly with:

We have a $50 minimum per order. So, yes you could mix and match sizes.


We can send the material using US Postal Service and it would be much less expensive. Let me know if you have any other questions.​

His email was pretty brief and he didn't answer my third question which was "can you estimate how much shipping would be via the cheapest option", so I did get the impression he was like "oh god go away unless you want to come back with a real order" But that's understandable - and he did respond positively so that was nice

 

[vapealone]

No I already did ask them and they said yes So I can probably get shipping for $60 instead of $100+. Which is something, even if it's still more than the cost of the product

Yeah in my email to them I told them I understood if they couldn't do this, and that a response wasn't urgent etc.

He responded fairly quickly with:

We have a $50 minimum per order. So, yes you could mix and match sizes.


We can send the material using US Postal Service and it would be much less expensive. Let me know if you have any other questions.​

His email was pretty brief so I did get the impression he was like "oh god go away unless you want to come back with a real order" But to his credit, he did respond positively!

Yeah that is what I ended up too. It just there are other slower and cheaper USPS options available, down to some $20ish I guess, I ve tried to move them to. But they preferred to use the priority service for $60 and I didn't push more.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[TheBloke]

Yeah that is what I ended up too. It just there are other slower and cheaper USPS options available, down to some $20ish I guess, I ve tried to move them to. But they preferred to use the priority service for $60 and I didn't push more.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Ohhh I see - I was only looking at the Priority Mail Express options. Now I see yes, it goes down to $25.

OK well if/when I order, I will just tell them "please use this service" that I already checked and is cheap, and I'll see what they say. If they insist on something better then yeah I'll give in quickly.

If you wouldn't mind measuring your spool when you get home that'd be great, as that will be a limiting factor. Another limiting factor is whether I get two sizes or one. They confirmed to me I could get as many sizes as I wanted as long as the overall order is $50 or more. So it would be nice to get at least two, maybe 26 and 28. But then that potentially increases shipping cost.

Decisions decisions!

Anyway that's great to hear your findings, so it does sound pretty similar to Resistherm in practice. Lower ohms, but if it does contact/dry burns perfectly well, I can't see any major disadvantage versus Resistherm. And if anything the TCR is even better (though I haven't checked to see how much it curves versus Resitherm? A very flat response would be a benefit, allowing for single-number TCR mods to use it accurately, and maybe Resi's is pretty flat - Dicodes claim it is, anyway.)

PS. Regarding the spreadsheet that Dejay was asking about, what I do on mine is Share it to Everyone, Read Only. Rather than only Publish To HTML. That means anyone can go to the link, and then Copy it to their own folder as their own sheet. So anyone can see the numbers, formula, etc, and play about themselves without affecting your work.

 

[tchavei]

Have a stupid question

I understand that the idea here is to get a cost effective price on wire by buying bulk quantities. It's like with everything. That's why Co-ops exist right?

Now I do understand when a guy (like me lol) buys a year worth of nic supply instead of 5x 30ml bottles per month because the price difference is insane and I WILL use up that nic sooner or later.

Now what puzzles me is that, once somebody finds his favorite coil style, he rebuilds a coil what? Once per month? Once per week if he is OCD?

So I figure I use around 12cm of wire per month (for one atty in use 24/7). That's 1.44m per year. A 10m spool will last me like 5 years. I still have every spool I ever bought since I started this. I have like 25m of 30g ni 200, 10m 28g ni 200, 10m 28g Ti, 10m kanthal 29g, 10m kanthal 32g, 10m 28g mystery ti alloy and I can't remember what else.

That's a lot of wire I will never use. Kanthal is out, ni 200... Bleh, I use Ti

In about 6 months, some exquisite plutonium wire will be presented and we're all going to buy it and our Ti spools will gather dust...


Do we really need to chase down 1200m of some wire because it's way cheaper at m/pound?

You're never going to use it. Ever.


My theory is that some folks are into it just for the chase and not because any actual savings

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[TheBloke]

No, of course I don't When I emailed these suppliers I asked if 10-30m was possible.

These are their minimum order quantities. I was impressed that the UK supplier quoted £50 for 1200m because it's one quarter the price of the US place, and it would still be much cheaper buying £50 + postage from the UK than £32 + postage from the US, and I'd have four times as much in case I could ever sell it, pass it on, or build a small car out of it. But it's impossible because their minimum is 5kg, not 1kg.

If I could get Alloy 120 in spools of 10m at standard vaping prices, I would be buying.. 10m I'm sure I could have got my Kanthal way cheaper buying it by the pound, but individual spools are fine and the least price up front, so that's what I have.

 

[druckle]

Have a stupid question

I understand that the idea here is to get a cost effective price on wire by buying bulk quantities. It's like with everything. That's why Co-ops exist right?

Now I do understand when a guy (like me lol) buys a year worth of nic supply instead of 5x 30ml bottles per month because the price difference is insane and I WILL use up that nic sooner or later.

Now what puzzles me is that, once somebody finds his favorite coil style, he rebuilds a coil what? Once per month? Once per week if he is OCD?

So I figure I use around 12cm of wire per month (for one atty in use 24/7). That's 1.44m per year. A 10m spool will last me like 5 years. I still have every spool I ever bought since I started this. I have like 25m of 30g ni 200, 10m 28g ni 200, 10m 28g Ti, 10m kanthal 29g, 10m kanthal 32g, 10m 28g mystery ti alloy and I can't remember what else.

That's a lot of wire I will never use. Kanthal is out, ni 200... Bleh, I use Ti

In about 6 months, some exquisite plutonium wire will be presented and we're all going to buy it and our Ti spools will gather dust...


Do we really need to chase down 1200m of some wire because it's way cheaper at m/pound?

You're never going to use it. Ever.


My theory is that some folks are into it just for the chase and not because any actual savings

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

Dammit man do you have to be so logical?

I think the real point might be to satisfy curiosity not support a vaping habit.
Nothing wrong with that as long as it's fun. (And do NOT ask me about my other hobbies because none seem to be logical and I can tell you for sure none are cheap).

Duane

 

[Madnapali]

If anyone wants to organize a US co-op for Resistherm and/or Titanium, I'm game.

 

[tchavei]

I was just performing a reality check on the thread

You know... Titanium dioxide can have unpredictable effects like making some of us going bulk [emoji14]


My rc hobby was expensive... Especially when I bought a 35k pickup just so I could drive to a secret location in the hills to practice my stunts on a daily basis.

Obviously I never admitted to the wife I bought a pickup just for that lol.



Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[WickedWicks]

@Yihi, @Evolv, would you please send this bloke a sample SX350/DNA200 box.
@TheBloke would you please refrain accepting any hiring offers from the above in order to continue making quality posts on ecf

 

[vapealone]

Have a stupid question

I understand that the idea here is to get a cost effective price on wire by buying bulk quantities. It's like with everything. That's why Co-ops exist right?

Now I do understand when a guy (like me lol) buys a year worth of nic supply instead of 5x 30ml bottles per month because the price difference is insane and I WILL use up that nic sooner or later.

Now what puzzles me is that, once somebody finds his favorite coil style, he rebuilds a coil what? Once per month? Once per week if he is OCD?

So I figure I use around 12cm of wire per month (for one atty in use 24/7). That's 1.44m per year. A 10m spool will last me like 5 years. I still have every spool I ever bought since I started this. I have like 25m of 30g ni 200, 10m 28g ni 200, 10m 28g Ti, 10m kanthal 29g, 10m kanthal 32g, 10m 28g mystery ti alloy and I can't remember what else.

That's a lot of wire I will never use. Kanthal is out, ni 200... Bleh, I use Ti

In about 6 months, some exquisite plutonium wire will be presented and we're all going to buy it and our Ti spools will gather dust...


Do we really need to chase down 1200m of some wire because it's way cheaper at m/pound?

You're never going to use it. Ever.


My theory is that some folks are into it just for the chase and not because any actual savings

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

You shouldn't have brought this up I will never use up my wires let alone the ones in transit. And sooner or later I will buy some Ti too tho dunno why. It seems that I am a Clapton fan and don't need anything but Ni/A1 hybrids.
Curiosity I guess.
Anyway, as I probably said before I am happy to send a few meters or more of A120 for experimenting for free if postage fee from Au is covered. And I might consider some free postage to @TheBloke to support his work

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[vapealone]

....PS. Regarding the spreadsheet that Dejay was asking about, what I do on mine is Share it to Everyone, Read Only. Rather than only Publish To HTML. That means anyone can go to the link, and then Copy it to their own folder as their own sheet. So anyone can see the numbers, formula, etc, and play about themselves without affecting your work.

I see how it is. You give them an inch and they will take a mile...
So be it. Click on the mile and take it
Or alternatively play with it below Wow I didn't know that you can embed active worksheets

In terms of the spools:
Dia: 76 mm Height: 85.79mm each Gross weight ATM is 209 and 212g but they were well below 250g (each) originally. But they sent it in a bloody huge box filled with with some uber professional looking protection foam packages.
And again:

... as I probably said before I am happy to send a few meters or more of A120 for experimenting for free if postage fee from Au is covered. And I might consider some free postage to @TheBloke to support his work

Not to mention that I would feel guilty if you end up with some 300m wires you don't like..

 

[TheotherSteveS]

This thread is nuts! I love it!

 

[TheBloke]

@Yihi, @Evolv, would you please send this bloke a sample SX350/DNA200 box.
@TheBloke would you please refrain accepting any hiring offers from the above in order to continue making quality posts on ecf

You are very kind I'm afraid I jumped the gun on Yihi, who were obviously mere seconds from sending me all their devices

I bought an SX Mini M today, which will be here tomorrow. @druckle your prayers have been answered

I see how it is. You give them an inch and they will take a mile...
So be it. Click on the mile and take it

Well I hope you don't feel we forced you into it! You'd already shared all the actual numbers and graphs, so I thought the rest was more convenience than anything else. If you don't feel comfortable with it up, perhaps worried that a random will profit from your work without attribution, please do take it down - you could always PM a copy to individuals like @Madnapali who will use it for the benefit of the general knowledge in the thread.

Or alternatively play with it below Wow I didn't know that you can embed active worksheets

Wow me neither! That is awesome. I never looked properly at that combined "Insert Media" button - I just assumed it was YouTube, Google Video, and all the other obvious image/video/audio sites. Now I look at it more closely, yeah there's quite a lot of interesting options.

I had been bemoaning the fact that this new forum software, Xenforo, doesn't support embedded tables like the previous software did. That's a shame because a lot of data is best represented in tables, and before it was possible to knock up a table in Excel and paste it in and it looked pretty good in the forum. I'd still wish that were possible, but embedding a Google Sheet is of course far better in many ways. It's a bit of overkill for the simple tables - but I will certainly use it for tabular data anyway, now we can't do basic HTML tables - but for anything more complex it's absolutely fantastic. Thanks!

Hmm this is giving me lots of ideas. I was just thinking the other day - well actually, bemoaning again! - about the lack of edits on this forum after two days. It really sucks for keeping long, info-based threads like this updated over time.

I was thinking if I could only embed some document that I could update separately. Well now I know I can embed a spreadsheet, and I also see Github Gist and Pastebin. Google Docs would be ideal but doesn't seem to be listed. Anyway I will definitely experiment with that!

In terms of the spools:
Dia: 76 mm Height: 85.79mm each Gross weight ATM is 209 and 212g but they were well below 250g (each) originally. But they sent it in a bloody huge box filled with with some uber professional looking protection foam packages.
And again:

Not to mention that I would feel guilty if you end up with some 300m wires you don't like..

Thank you very much, for both! It would be awesome to get some of your wire; the idea of getting 300 metres from the US is nice in principle, with all I've spent recently I'd be just as happy not having to spend another $100+ I had visions of becoming a wire magnate on eBay but unless Resistherm takes off in a big way, I can't imagine I'll ever be able to sell it on in any quantity. And if it does start to take off, and/or when I use up yours, I can always go back to ResistanceWire.com again.

But I checked the cost of Australian postage for a package to UK and it's expensive so I'd like to pay for it - you're still doing the work of spooling it off and packaging and sending it, besides which you've contributed loads to this thread yourself already. I'll respond to your PM shortly and we can discuss there.

Thank you again!

 

[Madnapali]

Well I hope you don't feel we forced you into it! You'd already shared all the actual numbers and graphs, so I thought the rest was more convenience than anything else. If you don't feel comfortable with it up, perhaps worried that a random will profit from your work without attribution, please do take it down - you could always PM a copy to individuals like @Madnapali who will use it for the benefit of the general knowledge in the thread.

I definitely appreciate the info and would not use it without permission, even if my purpose is solely going to be for shareware. When the time comes to start working on my Ares OS firmware, I'll come back here and ask around/scan the thread to get all the most recent findings. I really ought to be compiling what we already have, but I'm pretty limited on time :/. Maybe if work next week is super slow... lol.

 

[Quantum Mech]

@TheBloke is this snapshot revealing the face behind the mask

 

[vapealone]

Well I hope you don't feel we forced you into it! You'd already shared all the actual numbers and graphs, so I thought the rest was more convenience than anything else. If you don't feel comfortable with it up, perhaps worried that a random will profit from your work without attribution, please do take it down - you could always PM a copy to individuals like @Madnapali who will use it for the benefit of the general knowledge in the thread.

I was joking.
I started this very spreadsheet for this thread If someone will profit from it, so be it.
The only reason I choose HTML to lock the view for clarity and hide some rather messy secondary data made my life easier to work with.

 

[vapealone]

Thank you very much, for both! It would be awesome to get some of your wire; the idea of getting 300 metres from the US is nice in principle, with all I've spent recently I'd be just as happy not having to spend another $100+ I had visions of becoming a wire magnate on eBay but unless Resistherm takes off in a big way, I can't imagine I'll ever be able to sell it on in any quantity. And if it does start to take off, and/or when I use up yours, I can always go back to ResistanceWire.com again.

But I checked the cost of Australian postage for a package to UK and it's expensive so I'd like to pay for it - you're still doing the work of spooling it off and packaging and sending it, besides which you've contributed loads to this thread yourself already. I'll respond to your PM shortly and we can discuss there.
Thank you again!

Ok.

 

[vapealone]

Release notes:
V 15.06.27: Stable, Resistherm added