I made a thread for it: Apollo Reliant 60W - TC with TCR adjustment, including Stainless Steel support
TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance
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Looks better than the name sounds
Not bad, who is the manufacturer?
So far as we know, it's Apollo themselves - they appear to be both manufacturer and vendor. They claim it's "developed in our Californian lab".
It's surely produced in China, but so far it seems they do design/code them themselves. They have some existing products, such as a 50W VW Tube, the (also great name) VTube 4.0. It's been through four revisions, and there are a number of reviews on YT suggesting they're well built, reliable devices.
So there's some hope that it could be a decent device.
Good point - I've been doing a lot of testing with SR recently, ever since I got my Chinese four-wire 'micro' ohm reader (more like milli, or at best hundred-micro). Some interesting findings - such as the big relative difference of brass vs stainless in positive paths! I will post it up soon.
Yes I will do some DNA 200 testing for sure. Out of interest, why do you specify resistance locked @ 68F (if I'm understanding that correctly?) The DNA 200 should adjust according to ambient temperature, right? (Unlike the Dicodes, which is always relative to 20°C)
I've been thinking about why the spaced coils don't seem to gunk up as quickly as contact coils and can't help but wonder if it's only appears that way because the little particles don't have a good place to adhere to and are flying into the air stream as they are produced. Just thinking out loud here, any comments?
I think your theory is partially correct. The intercrystalline voids inside the oxide layer on the wire surface begin to plug up with use, then juice transport from the wick between the coil turns to the outside wire surface of the coil is greatly diminished; at this point the turns overheat on the outer surface of the coil thereby baking on the juice. Adhesion is the principle at work that wets the outer surface of the wire with juice. How well adhesion works is dependent on surface area among other factors such as juice viscosity. As the intercrystalline voids become plugged up with sediment (flavorings and nic) the surface area is reduced and so is juice flow.
With a spaced coil the same adhesion principles for juice transport apply but as you said much more of the sediments are carried away with vapor instead of becoming trapped in the intercrystalline voids between the turns. So, with spaced coils you get a considerable increase in vaping time between dryburns. My theory anyway.
I believe another contributor to burning juice onto the outer surface of coil turns is heat concentration. As the proximty between the turns is lessened the heat becomes confined into a smaller area. At a given wattage you simply have the same amount of heat energy released into a smaller space with contact coils than spaced coils. This smaller space is covering less wick length too so overheating the wick, especially in the centermost portion of coil, happens much quicker. Bad news.
After clogging begins it's a viscous circle with contact coils because the hot vapor created on the inside of the coil has no where to go except out the ends of the coil; overheating soon follows causing a more rapid productiin of gunk which causes even higher temps which causes more gunk....etc
I was originally a contact coil advocate due to its greater thermal efficiency and the piss poor batteries we had to deal with in the not so distant past, but with todays battery technology I switched over the spaced coils.
For more on this see my blog if you want.
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Hope I'm not the only one that saw it's cutoff is 20 seconds instead of 10 and thought "Um, that's not a feature, that's an overheated or vented battery waiting to happen."
So where do I get this nife52? Is it the same thing as alloy 52? Is there any way to use this on a device that only supports ti and ni200(ipv3 LI)?
DNA 40 has a 20 second cutout as well - it's fine
Remember it's in TC mode, so it shouldn't have run away temperatures.Right now, nowhere. Hopefully by next week, from ZiVipf.com in Germany; it's on order. By middle of September, there will be a US vendor selling it - we don't know who yet, just that it will be announced at the Vape Mania event on September 15th. We also don't know if it will be reasonably priced raw NiFe52 or some 'engineered for vapers' crap that charges way too much.
Yes you can use it on devices that only support Titanium and Ni200. Please see this post for more information.
Huh! First thought - it looks almost exactly like the Apollo. Same sloping panel for fire button, which reminds me of using a lighter. Different specs though, and lacking TCR and mech mode. Just coincidence I guess, two mods with almost the same design noticed within two days of each other!
Platinum! Well, its TCR works, 0.004. Resistance is quite low, double Ni200 but that's still very low. One quarter that of Titanium.
Sounds expensive
Umm, maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing, but this site sells Platinum wire: http://www.goodfellow.com/catalogue...yXiUbTIHKv22&n=ZlsnGYcZnobDD02r3y1wtsN5f6qzfx
And... 1m of 0.25mm is £200 Oh, and that's ex-VAT (another 20%).
Oh it's ok! It does include delivery
And... 1m of 0.25mm is £200
Oh, and that's ex-VAT (another 20%). Oh it's ok! It does include delivery
No I'm not looking at the wrong thing. That's how much platinum wire costs.
Great stuff, Wotofo!
Great stuff, Wotofo!
- Researching new wires = excellent!
- Be the first mod maker to add a third wire to a TC wire list = amazing!
- Making it a wire that costs $30 per coil = outstanding!
I don't like thin wire, so I would definitely twist this 2x
The HEMO crowd would LOVE this, but Wotofo would need to raise the price to over $500, stop selling online or through retailers, cut production down to just a few units per quarter, and set up a Facebook list. Oh, and use stabilized wood, gotta have a stabwood option.
The hand check photos of somebody with an Ubertoot or Gem firing a $30 platinum coil using top-of-the-line 5 Pawns liquid and hand-picked-by-virgin-schoolgirls, aged organic pre-Fukishima cotton would be priceless.
The HEMO crowd would LOVE this, but Wotofo would need to raise the price to over $500, stop selling online or through retailers, cut production down to just a few units per quarter, and set up a Facebook list. Oh, and use stabilized wood, gotta have a stabwood option.
The hand check photos of somebody with an Ubertoot or Gem firing a $30 platinum coil using top-of-the-line 5 Pawns liquid and hand-picked-by-virgin-schoolgirls, aged organic pre-Fukishima cotton would be priceless.
Oh Christ you're right!
It's the 24k gold iPhone of TC..
Platinum? Wow. I so want it... But 30 bucks a coil is a little steep...
Regards
Tony
Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.
Regards
Tony
Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.
Sorry, missed this part of the post in my previous answer:
Summary:
It is in principle the same as Alloy 52. But there can be small differences, which can change the TCR (and therefore required temperature offset on a non-TCR mod), and the resistance.
What I can say with some confidence is that if you get any random Alloy 52 you should be able to get the same vape as from Kanthal NiFe52 - it might just need a slightly different TCR setting or temperature offset. It might also be slightly different in strength, springiness and hardness.
TLDR: You should preferably buy a NiFe52 already tested, such as once I've tested ZiVipf's, or at least one sold with a stated TCR. Failing that, you can still buy with the confidence that it will work, but it might need some experimentation to find the right temperature setting.
In detail:
As an example: there are many types of NiFe70 AKA NiFe30 AKA Alloy 120:
- Resistherm NiFe30, provided by Dicodes and manufactured by Isabellenhütte.
- TCR of 0.0035, resistance of 5.5Ω/m @ 29G (0.28mm)
- Then there's Kanthal's NiFethal 70, which I have now tried from ZiVipf
- TCR of 0.0052, resistance of 3.3Ω/m @ 29G (0.28mm)
- The generic name is Alloy 120
- @vapealone has tried some form of Alloy 120, purchasing it in bulk quantity (280+ metres) from ResistanceWire.com
- The TCR listed by ResistanceWire is around 0.0045 and I think the resistance is lower than Resistherm; I am not sure the exact figure.
In the case of Resistherm NiFe30, we know it has a few trace amounts of other metals - like 0.6% aluminium. Kanthal NiFethal 70's data sheet just says it's purely 70/30 Nickel/Iron, but I don't know if that means it literally is just that, or if it has other minor amounts it's not listing.
Alloy 120 is just a generic name, the name of a general specification. In other words, both Resistherm NiFe30 and Kanthal NiFe70 are examples of Alloy 120, despite their differences. ResistanceWire in their Alloy 120 section list a huge range of different types: Alloy 120, MWS-120, Balco, Hytemco, HAI-380, Pelcoloy, Nickel Alloy 120, NIFE 5200, Kanthal 70, Alloy K70
So similarly, Alloy 52 is a generic name covering many individual products. It has the base spec of 52% Nickel, 68% Iron, same as listed for Kanthal NiFe52. But individual implementations might well have slight differences, including differing trace amounts of other elements.
And we know that the specification states that the Nickel content can be 50.5% - 52%, so even this amount is not fixed between different types. 1.5% can, I believe, make a vast difference to the resulting wire; I've already seen this with Ni200, where just a 0.6% margin in the spec - 99.0% to 99.6% - has resulted in different TCRs between different suppliers.
I just googled Alloy 120 and found this page at EdFagan.com. It shows a spec that describes 50.5% Nickel, 0.025% Chromium, and other small amounts. Is this the same as Kanthal NiFe52? I don't know, but I would assume it's definitely not precisely the same.
I guess saying Alloy 52 or Alloy 120 is a bit like saying 'Stainless Steel' - it covers a range of material which can vary quite a bit. SS has 304, 316, 317, and dozens of others. Alloy 120 has Resistherm NiFe30, Kanthal Nifethal 70, and dozens of others. Ditto Alloy 52.
So yeah, things may seem a bit complicated. But we can sort them out once we know specific suppliers. Ultimately all we care about is knowing that Wire X purchased from Vendor Y is a good wire , and that there are enough vendors to supply the whole vaping world. One EU, one US and one China would be perfect, and we already know 2/3 of those are coming soon.
When I get the ZiVipf wire, I can measure its TCR and give a solid recommended figure - the TCR to use on adjustable mods, the offset to use on the DNA 40 and Yihi chips. When other NiFe52s come out, I - and/or others - can repeat the process.
We know a US vendor is coming out with a NiFe52 'specifically manufactured' for vaping, so I very much hope they will provide a TCR figure for their wire, clearly shown on the product page and on the spool itself - as Dicodes do for their Resistherm NiFe30 - as well as a DNA 200 file.
I expect that this will be the pattern going forward. If NiFe52 takes off, suppliers of it - at least those supplying it for vaping - should and hopefully will label it with the values to use, and provide a DNA 200 file. If they're smart they'll also include offsets for at least the DNA 40 and Yihi.
So hopefully you'll only be completely on your own if you buy it from non-vaping suppliers, and if you buy a specific alloy that that no-one else has used, AND if the wire supplier doesn't provide an accurate TCR.
Even then, experimentation is not too hard: start by assuming it has the same TCR/offset as another brand, then adjust until you don't get dry hits.
A basic dry cotton test can also put you in the ballpark - just be sure to first test with a known wire such as Ni200 or Titanium, checking what level of singeing occurs, repeatably, at a given target temperature. Then try to re-create that with the unknown wire using an identical coil and amount of cotton: this will give you an idea that a setting of X°C = Y°C achieved temp, where Y is the temp at which cotton singed a certain amount. Use that as your max temp and adjust down to taste.
That said, I doubt anything like that will be necessary. Unless you really want hundreds of meters of wire from a place like ResistanceWire.com there's only going to be a few spool-sized suppliers in the short term. I will try to test them all myself, and others will do the same.
So unless you're adventurous, just buy what I and others have bought and already tested
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Good point. It is just I like to eliminate all the variables and/or calculation errors and keep (preferably) everything constant but the only thing I want to measure. At least, in theory
It is probably overkill, unless you do your test in a fully isolated lab wearing spacesuit
My only excuse is that importing this to Escribe:
-148,0.57
68,1
212,1.42
302,1.68
392,1.91
482,2.19
572,2.47
932,3.66
than exporting out its curve again will give you this:
-148,0.569999992847443
68,1
212,1.41999995708466
302,1.67999994754791
392,1.9099999666214
482,2.19000005722046
572,2.47000002861023
932,3.66000008583069
No significant difference but surprising. I hope it is because some polynomial replacement happening in the behind.
Doesn't really matter, but interesting.
Goodfellow is not your best friendUmm, maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing, but this site sells Platinum wire: http://www.goodfellow.com/catalogue...yXiUbTIHKv22&n=ZlsnGYcZnobDD02r3y1wtsN5f6qzfx
And... 1m of 0.25mm is £200
Oh it's ok! It does include delivery
They are selling ultra-high purity stuff for research/educational purpose. Hopefully, they provide detailed analysis for the very piece you are buying for their price tag. Either way, it is not for us
Check out their Ni wire price
358-402-91 NI005146 Nickel Wire, Length: 1 m Diameter:0.4mm, High Purity:99.99+%, Temper:As drawn, This item is in stock 1 Reel GBP 222.00
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