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TheBloke

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Good point. It is just I like to eliminate all the variables and/or calculation errors and keep (preferably) everything constant but the only thing I want to measure. At least, in theory:)
It is probably overkill, unless you do your test in a fully isolated lab wearing spacesuit:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

This will have to do for now :)



than exporting out its curve again will give you this:
-148,0.569999992847443
68,1
212,1.41999995708466

Hmm, floating point precision error perhaps? Have you raised it to Evolv?

Goodfellow is not your best friend:D:D:D
They are selling ultra-high purity stuff for research/educational purpose. Hopefully, they provide detailed analysis for the very piece you are buying for their price tag. Either way, it is not for us:)
Check out their Ni wire price:)
358-402-91 NI005146 Nickel Wire, Length: 1 m Diameter:0.4mm, High Purity:99.99+%, Temper:As drawn, This item is in stock 1 Reel GBP 222.00

Ah ha, I see :) But I did not only look there, I clicked on 5 different places, and a few more just now, and all are in the hundreds. Maybe Goodfellow is particularly expensive, but nowhere is affordable :)

This is a jewellery supplier - cooksongold.com

They sell it for £30 a gram - works out to £140 including tax for 1m of 0.5mm/24G, which as you thought is quite a bit cheaper than Goodfellow, but still a tad pricey for coiling :) £14 / $US21 per 100mm coil :)

sHsOvqO.png


Maybe Wotofo meant it for use with some 99% or less pure stuff (instead of 99.99 etc) that I haven't seen yet? I don't know.

But frankly even if there is such a supply out there, it still seems a mighty odd decision to add it, especially versus NiFe which has been known to advanced TC vapers for three months or more via Dicodes.
 
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TheBloke

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Though actually.. stupid me, of course if they have used a TCR around 0.004 for Platinum, we could vape NiFe52 on that setting with no offset! (Platinum is showing as 0.00393 - close enough to NiFe52 @ 0.00404!)

Way to go Wotofo! :D

(Assuming Platinum is a flat TCR and/or they implemented it as a flat TCR - but then what Chinese chip maker has ever implemented a curve? :) )
 

HolmanGT

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Though actually.. stupid me, of course if they have used a TCR around 0.004 for Platinum, we could vape NiFe52 on that setting with no offset! (Platinum is showing as 0.00393 - close enough to NiFe52 @ 0.00404!)

Way to go Wotofo! :D

(Assuming Platinum is a flat TCR and/or they implemented it as a flat TCR - but then what Chinese chip maker has ever implemented a curve? :) )

Platinum is as flat as any metal comes. That is why they use it for RTDs. However an RTD only uses a tiny little amount. If you want to buy enough to make a Vaping coil it will get expensive real fast.
 
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BrentMydland

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Sorry, missed this part of the post in my previous answer:

Summary:

It is in principle the same as Alloy 52. But there can be small differences, which can change the TCR (and therefore required temperature offset on a non-TCR mod), and the resistance.

What I can say with some confidence is that if you get any random Alloy 52 you should be able to get the same vape as from Kanthal NiFe52 - it might just need a slightly different TCR setting or temperature offset. It might also be slightly different in strength, springiness and hardness.

TLDR: You should preferably buy a NiFe52 already tested, such as once I've tested ZiVipf's, or at least one sold with a stated TCR. Failing that, you can still buy with the confidence that it will work, but it might need some experimentation to find the right temperature setting.

In detail:

As an example: there are many types of NiFe70 AKA NiFe30 AKA Alloy 120:
  • Resistherm NiFe30, provided by Dicodes and manufactured by Isabellenhütte.
    • TCR of 0.0035, resistance of 5.5Ω/m @ 29G (0.28mm)
  • Then there's Kanthal's NiFethal 70, which I have now tried from ZiVipf
    • TCR of 0.0052, resistance of 3.3Ω/m @ 29G (0.28mm)
  • The generic name is Alloy 120
    • @vapealone has tried some form of Alloy 120, purchasing it in bulk quantity (280+ metres) from ResistanceWire.com
    • The TCR listed by ResistanceWire is around 0.0045 and I think the resistance is lower than Resistherm; I am not sure the exact figure.
All of these are approximately 70% Nickel, 30% Iron, but there are significant differences in TCRs and resistance.

In the case of Resistherm NiFe30, we know it has a few trace amounts of other metals - like 0.6% aluminium. Kanthal NiFethal 70's data sheet just says it's purely 70/30 Nickel/Iron, but I don't know if that means it literally is just that, or if it has other minor amounts it's not listing.

Alloy 120 is just a generic name, the name of a general specification. In other words, both Resistherm NiFe30 and Kanthal NiFe70 are examples of Alloy 120, despite their differences. ResistanceWire in their Alloy 120 section list a huge range of different types: Alloy 120, MWS-120, Balco, Hytemco, HAI-380, Pelcoloy, Nickel Alloy 120, NIFE 5200, Kanthal 70, Alloy K70

So similarly, Alloy 52 is a generic name covering many individual products. It has the base spec of 52% Nickel, 68% Iron, same as listed for Kanthal NiFe52. But individual implementations might well have slight differences, including differing trace amounts of other elements.

And we know that the specification states that the Nickel content can be 50.5% - 52%, so even this amount is not fixed between different types. 1.5% can, I believe, make a vast difference to the resulting wire; I've already seen this with Ni200, where just a 0.6% margin in the spec - 99.0% to 99.6% - has resulted in different TCRs between different suppliers.

I just googled Alloy 120 and found this page at EdFagan.com. It shows a spec that describes 50.5% Nickel, 0.025% Chromium, and other small amounts. Is this the same as Kanthal NiFe52? I don't know, but I would assume it's definitely not precisely the same.

I guess saying Alloy 52 or Alloy 120 is a bit like saying 'Stainless Steel' - it covers a range of material which can vary quite a bit. SS has 304, 316, 317, and dozens of others. Alloy 120 has Resistherm NiFe30, Kanthal Nifethal 70, and dozens of others. Ditto Alloy 52.

So yeah, things may seem a bit complicated. But we can sort them out once we know specific suppliers. Ultimately all we care about is knowing that Wire X purchased from Vendor Y is a good wire , and that there are enough vendors to supply the whole vaping world. One EU, one US and one China would be perfect, and we already know 2/3 of those are coming soon.

When I get the ZiVipf wire, I can measure its TCR and give a solid recommended figure - the TCR to use on adjustable mods, the offset to use on the DNA 40 and Yihi chips. When other NiFe52s come out, I - and/or others - can repeat the process.

We know a US vendor is coming out with a NiFe52 'specifically manufactured' for vaping, so I very much hope they will provide a TCR figure for their wire, clearly shown on the product page and on the spool itself - as Dicodes do for their Resistherm NiFe30 - as well as a DNA 200 file.

I expect that this will be the pattern going forward. If NiFe52 takes off, suppliers of it - at least those supplying it for vaping - should and hopefully will label it with the values to use, and provide a DNA 200 file. If they're smart they'll also include offsets for at least the DNA 40 and Yihi.

So hopefully you'll only be completely on your own if you buy it from non-vaping suppliers, and if you buy a specific alloy that that no-one else has used, AND if the wire supplier doesn't provide an accurate TCR.

Even then, experimentation is not too hard: start by assuming it has the same TCR/offset as another brand, then adjust until you don't get dry hits.

A basic dry cotton test can also put you in the ballpark - just be sure to first test with a known wire such as Ni200 or Titanium, checking what level of singeing occurs, repeatably, at a given target temperature. Then try to re-create that with the unknown wire using an identical coil and amount of cotton: this will give you an idea that a setting of X°C = Y°C achieved temp, where Y is the temp at which cotton singed a certain amount. Use that as your max temp and adjust down to taste.

That said, I doubt anything like that will be necessary. Unless you really want hundreds of meters of wire from a place like ResistanceWire.com there's only going to be a few spool-sized suppliers in the short term. I will try to test them all myself, and others will do the same.

So unless you're adventurous, just buy what I and others have bought and already tested :)
Awesome, thanks for the write up. I can't vape ni200 because when I do I get a sore throat and some swelling so I've just been using Ti but I would love to see what else is out there and would love something I can dry burn.
 
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TheBloke

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Awesome, thanks for the write up. I can't vape ni200 because when I do I get a sore throat and some swelling so I've just been using Ti but I would love to see what else is out there and would love something I can dry burn.

Great, hope you can find something that works well for you.

In fact it sounds like you might be able to answer an open question we have - how much nickel is too much, for sensitivities? The two NiFes under discussion have 70% and 50-52%. The latter obviously better from that point of view, but maybe the former is also OK. But I'm sure you'll want to wait for the 52 to be sure.

NiFe52 will be available in a couple of weeks in both the US and Germany, so if you do get some perhaps you could let us know how it turns out?
 

BrentMydland

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Great, hope you can find something that works well for you.

In fact it sounds like you might be able to answer an open question we have - how much nickel is too much, for sensitivities? The two NiFes under discussion have 70% and 50-52%. The latter obviously better from that point of view, but maybe the former is also OK. But I'm sure you'll want to wait for the 52 to be sure.

NiFe52 will be available in a couple of weeks in both the US and Germany, so if you do get some perhaps you could let us know how it turns out?

I'll keep an eye out to see when its released and when I get some I will definitely let you know assuming its not too expensive. Med school aint cheap lol so my vape budget isn't as large as I'd like but as long as its around the same price as Ti I'll at least try it. I would love something I could dry burn. This Ti gunks like crazy. It would also be nice to find something easier to build with. Not that Ti is hard just that nickle was so darn easy to build with. Just wrap it like you want it the first time and it doesn't move or spring. I've also had some trouble with Ti just snapping for no reason when claptoning and I never had that problem with kanthal or Ni200.

FWIW it wasn't that bad. I could probably vape it if I had too. At first I thought I was just getting sick but when I stopped using it it went away and a week or so later I tried it again and it did the same. Just a sore throat that got progressively worse and some minor swelling but not to the point where it hindered my breathing or anything.
 
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TheBloke

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OK cool @BrentMydland , It will definitely be available at prices comparable to Titanium, at least in the EU it will. We don't know about the upcoming US supplier and whether it's going to be normal prices or 'made for vaper' prices.

But shipping from EU to US isn't so terrible, usually $5-$10 I believe.

Anyway I can throw a spool or two in the post to you, I'm going to have more than I can ever use :)
 

zoiDman

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Depends what you want to compare it against.

...

Sorry for the length, but as you can see there are various advantages/disadvantages to each, so it's a process of layering advantages by which we get to, in my view, the 'ultimate' TC wire :)

A Very Nice and Detailed Explanation of how you see things.

Thank you for Posting it.
 
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funkyrudi

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A new SXK TC Mod, the Zero Mini popped up. They advertise it with 3 modes Ni, Ti and VW and write: special coil purity ratio function. Is this a new firmware with the possibility to select one of these 3 modes, or is it just the old NP? They changed the dimensions and the position of the + and - switches too. Unfortunately I ordered a Yosen Zero yesterday.

SXK pandaro box mod 60W TC melody box mod silver/black/golden zero mini, View zero mini, SXK Product Details from Shenzhen Shenxingkang Technology Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com
$52.93-$53.43 Authentic SXK Zero Mini 60W Titanium/Nickel TC Variable Wattage VW Box Mod - Silver
 

druckle

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A new SXK TC Mod, the Zero Mini popped up. They advertise it with 3 modes Ni, Ti and VW and write: special coil purity ratio function. Is this a new firmware with the possibility to select one of these 3 modes, or is it just the old NP? They changed the dimensions and the position of the + and - switches too. Unfortunately I ordered a Yosen Zero yesterday.

SXK pandaro box mod 60W TC melody box mod silver/black/golden zero mini, View zero mini, SXK Product Details from Shenzhen Shenxingkang Technology Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com
$52.93-$53.43 Authentic SXK Zero Mini 60W Titanium/Nickel TC Variable Wattage VW Box Mod - Silver
I like that one. Really small and the SXK board has been great for me. With the updates to include Ti mode I think it might be a winner.

Duane
 
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cigatron

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Yes I am

But I will bet my entire table of mods that it's 10 - 100 / 0.001 -> 0.01 :) Same as the earlier SXKs, and same as another mod we recently discussed.

So with np is 10-100 equivalent to 0.001-0.10 tcr? Is that the range of most tcr adj mods but without the .xxx1 accuracy?
 

dwcraig1

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Using grade 1 Ti I was unable to get satisfactory results using SteamEngine's CSV but was able to get good results using SSV's beta CSV but thought the temp was way off. So I kind of made one that's in between the two and used the cotton burn test to insure that it was offering good TP protection. I'm using primarily Taifun GT II's and GS II's @ 28 watts with 35 watt pre-heat @ 450F
Here a live view:
11219327_1066588743365349_375083184125501677_n.jpg

Here is the text from my CSV:
-100 0.670714796
0 0.864388704
70 0.999953628
200.1707458 1.409998178
299.5446777 1.589999437
400 1.779981732
500.3414917 2.09999156
600 2.24000001
800 2.344801426

I'm certainly not saying the other CSV's are wrong, I just can't get them to work properly. Comments?
Oh, what was happening with Steamengine's CSV was temp was hit almost immediately bringing wattage down to around 18 watts, all rather too quickly.
 
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BrentMydland

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OK cool @BrentMydland , It will definitely be available at prices comparable to Titanium, at least in the EU it will. We don't know about the upcoming US supplier and whether it's going to be normal prices or 'made for vaper' prices.

But shipping from EU to US isn't so terrible, usually $5-$10 I believe.

Anyway I can throw a spool or two in the post to you, I'm going to have more than I can ever use :)

Oh man, that would be awesome. I just spent over $1000 for text books this semester. Pretty outrageous if you ask me especially considering how expensive med school already is. Seems the only way these professors will sell their books is to their own students so they jack the price up to make as much as they can. They just expect people to take massive amounts of student loans out. Luckily I made it through college paying my own way but thats impossible now. Sorry for the rant. Its been stewing for a while. lol

Anyway I'd definitely be willing to pay for shipping and the cost of the wire.
 
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