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Trexwyo

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Isn't most tanks, the 510 feeds directly underneath? In your opinion, what is the best tank for tc?

For me, out of the three tanks I own, I notice the le magister (replica) performs the best. The worst is the kayfun v4 (replica), all thanks to the conductive spring beneath the deck. Silly design by a good brand IMHO.


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The Steam Crave Aromamizer is what I use and the resistance is very stable. I will also add any corrosion on the 510 center pin, loose atty connection screwed on to the mod or loose grub screws can also result in an unstable resistance and a poor TC experience. If your 510 center pin is copper or brass and discolored that can add resistance and instability. An Ink eraser works pretty well to polish up brass or copper without removing any metal too. I've also seen people posting about using a fiberglass scrub pencil? Not sure what that is myself or where to find one. Anyone have a source for these?
 
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Trexwyo

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Jul 19, 2014
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Wth! I have that, how do you make the thing leak free? May I know your coil build etc.


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with the Aromamizer having cotton loosely placed where it is covering all the juice holes and filling the juice well base, is in my opinion how to minimize leaking. One of the first attys where using minimal cotton in the base doesn't seem to work as well. Still though, I've had no problems with dry wicks. I should also add My cotton is almost loose inside the coil(s) not tight at all. If I have wicking issues, Its usually because I have the wick too tight inside the coils. Really becomes a problem for me when using long vertical coils.
 
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2legsshrt

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@druckle What is a good Ti that measures up to 26awg. I really like the CW but it is just small enough that it slips out from between the screw and the side of the tower on the STM. Unk doesn't do that it traps really nicely you can't miss but it doesn't seem to be as good after a cleaning. I remember the Bloke said it was a little thin which is the resistance is about .03-.04ohms higher then the Unk with the same build. I wonder if the CW 24 is more like 25 the 26 is more like 27 so that would work. It's weird how the CW really gets better after a couple of tanks guess it's getting oxidized or something.
 
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druckle

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I've used both Unkamen wire and Rio Grande 24 gauge and both work really well for me. The Rio Grande 24 gauge is the one I use the most because it's fully annealed and pretty clean (and I usually prefer 24 gauge for most of my builds) and not springy at all but the Unkamen wire is about 50% annealed (a little more springy than Rio Grande wire) but I have absolutely no problem using it without any extra annealing. I think it's absolutely a matter of what you have on hand and what your personal preferences are. I've also used wires from several other sources and as long as it's Grade 1 Titanium wire it works fine.

There is always some variability in the work hardening present from the manufacturing process and consequently the springyness of the wire and some wire is supplied in a cleaner condition than others but again if it's dirty, clean it and if it's springy heat it if the springyness bothers. I've found that even touching any wire with fingers or a clean toothbrush during cleaning will leave a small residue on the wire and a low temp heating after the coil is mounted will cause a small trail of vapor as the organics are driven away. I usually heat the wire a little before wicking and don't touch the coil after than because I can taste that "smoke' for the first few puffs.

As far as the diameter of the wire that is always going to vary a little bit depending on the tolerances and degree of wear of the dies using in manufacturing. One batch from one vendor may be larger for one order and smaller in the next one. Tolerances are tolerances and manufacturing is manufacturing and variation is variation. I wouldn't even pretend that any vendor can provide perfectly reproducible diameter wire over and over again. The world doesn't work that way.

There's no magic between Grade 1 wire from various sources. Pick the one you prefer, treat it however you choose to adjust for cleaniness or springyness and vape on.

Duane
 

Mactavish

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I've used both Unkamen wire and Rio Grande 24 gauge and both work really well for me. The Rio Grande 24 gauge is the one I use the most because it's fully annealed and pretty clean (and I usually prefer 24 gauge for most of my builds) and not springy at all but the Unkamen wire is about 50% annealed (a little more springy than Rio Grande wire) but I have absolutely no problem using it without any extra annealing. I think it's absolutely a matter of what you have on hand and what your personal preferences are. I've also used wires from several other sources and as long as it's Grade 1 Titanium wire it works fine.

There is always some variability in the work hardening present from the manufacturing process and consequently the springyness of the wire and some wire is supplied in a cleaner condition than others but again if it's dirty, clean it and if it's springy heat it if the springyness bothers. I've found that even touching any wire with fingers or a clean toothbrush during cleaning will leave a small residue on the wire and a low temp heating after the coil is mounted will cause a small trail of vapor as the organics are driven away. I usually heat the wire a little before wicking and don't touch the coil after than because I can taste that "smoke' for the first few puffs.

As far as the diameter of the wire that is always going to vary a little bit depending on the tolerances and degree of wear of the dies using in manufacturing. One batch from one vendor may be larger for one order and smaller in the next one. Tolerances are tolerances and manufacturing is manufacturing and variation is variation. I wouldn't even pretend that any vendor can provide perfectly reproducible diameter wire over and over again. The world doesn't work that way.

There's no magic between Grade 1 wire from various sources. Pick the one you prefer, treat it however you choose to adjust for cleaniness or springyness and vape on.

Duane

Well said, I've posted the same info repeatedly, hopefully they will listen to you! :)
 

druckle

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Well said, I've posted the same info repeatedly, hopefully they will listen to you! :)
I frankly doubt it. Lots of folks seem to want to believe in black magic in the vaping world.

I've said the same thing over and over too and I don't notice any reduction in devotion to any color of magic yet.

:(

Duane
 

pevinsghost

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Depends on your needs. There are trade offs with every SS type so far.

430 is low nickel content, low resistance, high-ish tcr, a little springy if you don't torch it.

317L & 316L are on the lower end of tcr, but a dream to work with. Tend to be a bit more expensive depending on where you buy.

304 is super cheap, midling tcr, low resistance. Can't speak to workabilty As I haven't used any.

For any SS, contact is fine, but if you prefer spaced, that's fine too. Twisted works well and counteracts the springiness of SS.

"Standard" coil will depend on your mod, atty, and preferences. I use thin wire and just use steam engine to find the # of wraps on a coiler to get to a target resistance.
 

AlaskaVaper

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Well, no it is not more janky or more all over the place than Ni200, neither was the music wire.

Here is Ni200 14 spaced wraps, 3.5mm coil:
View attachment 508676
Here is the iron wire 12 wraps, 3.5mm coil:
View attachment 508734

Both the music wire and iron wire vape fantastic just like Ni200 does.

Once the thermocouple, the actual test measurement device used to measure temperature for these tests ramped up, it never varied more than 1 degree.

The live monitor of resistance was the measuring device for resistance in these tests and both appeared to me to look similar to Ni200. Guess which one is which:
View attachment 508668 View attachment 508667

The iron and music wire both have more resistance per length than Ni200 (Ness engineering data) and greater temperature sensitivity in the vaping range a.k.a higher TCR (data from Steam Engine) than some:
SS304 20 %
SS316/L 17 %
SS430 28%
Ti 1 59%
Ti 2 57%
NiFe30 (Resistherm) 64%
NiFe30 (Stealthvape) 72%
NiFe (Reactorwire) 62%
Invar 24%
Nifethal70 73%
Nifethal52 62%

My tests showed:
Music wire 70%
This iron binding wire...83%

Ni200 (curve) being 100% and Ni200 (linear) being 79% according to steam engine.

Nickel DH shows more sensitivity in the vaping range than NI200 (curve) at 114% according to steam engine.

No, the change in resistance is not small, it is actually more than Ni200 as shown in the test data. That is because there are two primary components to a materials resistance. The resistivity of the material and the TCR. A higher TCR yields more resistance change over the same temperature change. A higher resistivity yields more resistance change over the same TCR. The resistivity of 18-8 Stainless Steel is 10 times higher than Nickel yet it's TCR is 6 times worse. The end result is the resistance changes more over the same temperature range with 18-8 than with Nickel, coil for coil. So if a Nickel coil base resistance is .1 ohms, the same dimension and wrap coil with 18-8 will be 1 ohms. The Nickel will change resistance by .06 ohms over 100C where the 18-8 will change by .1ohms. In other words, it changes resistance more.

I use the same method of sensitivity calculation as steam engine, a straight ratio. So, the tested TCR of iron divided by the Ness data TCR of nickel i.e. .005/.006 = 83%. But that doesn't tell the whole story. The resistivity of iron is 1.4 times that of nickel. Using the resistivity from Ness and the TCR equation again, a coil of the same dimensions and wraps of nickel is .1 ohms, of iron is .14 ohms, a delta-T of 100C yields .07 ohms change for iron and .06 ohms change for nickel. So actually, the iron resistance change is greater than the nickel resistance change given the same coil and temperature change - 116%.

The only reason I am looking into this is I am tired of attys that have binding posts (ala Billow, velocity) that cut the soft nickel wire, well they don't the music wire and not easily with this iron binding wire. But on screw head posts (ala Kayfun styles), I still use NI200. And yes the iron wire and music wire is inexpensive and widely available. But, it will rust. I just don't care.

I am not advising anyone to buy iron or music wire, or anything else. I have no stock or interest in any company, wire or otherwise. I'm just sharing what I have found. I will continue to use the iron and the music wire on those particularly nasty cut my wire attys until the first time it gives me reason not to, i.e. a bad vape experience.

HTH

Note: The so called iron wire does have a bit of spring to it, but it is still flexible, similar to Kanthal. Unlike the music wire which is full on spring high carbon steel and needs hardened cutters. Since using the DNA200, I have noticed a difference in vape between two different NI200 spools of 28 gauge, one from Lightning Vape the other from Master Of Clouds. I never noticed a difference in vape on the DNA40.
WOW!!!
 
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AlaskaVaper

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Well put, better than I could ever express. Glad you're here @vapealone !

Here's a new related subject/question, for this thread anyway:

There are new-ish tc mods available now which offer auto detection of the heating wire's tcr value. I have an iJoy Asolo which does this and it works quite good for temp protecting kanthal and stainless steels. It also has dedicated ni and ti modes but it is not necessary to use them for temp protect, only for temp control where one selects a preferred temp and power level.

The Asolo requires the user to take a few 2 sec. or longer puffs in power mode to determine wire behavior before flipping over to temp protect mode (iJoy flavor mode).
I am guessing that the auto tcr detection is accomplished using an algorithm based on res rise over time with reference to selected wattage. Any thoughts on auto tcr detection?
Cigatron, Have you heard of any evidence that might indicate that this TCR recognition tech is being further pursued or advanced either by IJoy or others. I was optimistic and excited by the Asolo when it first appeared but watching several reviews cooled off my acquisitive instincts as well as the high original price point being over my budget hand. It still seems to be the "future " of TC if it is perfected.
 
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AlaskaVaper

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Easy for you to say.. :( you're the one that came up with charts using convoluted demonic equations with unholy symbols..LOL

Seriously..I am looking for an enjoyable healthy vape ..and after holding back on TC for a long time I finally decided to give it a try. And really..all I want is to know which wire gives the best taste with the least health hazards and how to use it on my mini. Do I rely on the presets if they're there..or do I have to manually enter a certain value.
Seriously, I do not hesitate to say not to be overly intimidated by TC. This blog will certainly provide way more education than is necessary, but only If you really desire to get into the technical aspects. I myself found this blog soon after joining ECF and was completely ignorant of all aspects of vaping using TC. I came here after getting a Evic VT TC and have never looked back. This blog is like going back to a school from which you will never graduate. Nevertheless the education along the way becomes part and parcel of your vaping armamentarium. My philosophy is to jump into the deep end of the pool and learn to swim. My very best vaping today results from using TC exept for my new toy,- The Noisy Cricket/Indestructible RDA series mod combo that I have not put down since I received it last week. LOL
 

cigatron

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Cigatron, Have you heard of any evidence that might indicate that this TCR recognition tech is being further pursued or advanced either by IJoy or others. I was optimistic and excited by the Asolo when it first appeared but watching several reviews cooled off my acquisitive instincts as well as the high original price point being over my budget hand. It still seems to be the "future " of TC if it is perfected.

Yeah, the Asolo's auto tcr detection is not flawless. It's accuracy for detection relies on consistant wick saturation and draw effort during the auto detection phase of setup, you just have to recognize the behavioral clues and alter your process to get the results. Once it's set up correctly for a build it works wonderfully at temp protecting Kanthal and SS. Of course once you swap atties you have to go through the setup all over again, which is kind of inconvenient if you're an atty swapper and use tc wires other than Ni or Ti.

The tech has come a long way and I do see auto tcr detection as benificial to some peeps now, myself included, but I'm not sure it's for everyone at it's current stage of development.

I would like to see tc mods offer more tc wire options. Perhaps 304, 316/L, 317/L and 430ss, Nife48, Ni and Ti as standard menu options from a pure convenience standpoint. Though not as accurate as tcr/np adjustments a menu driven tc wire selector would enable folks to get up and running without having to carry a tcr chart around.

Of course there'll always be a need for tc mods with manual adjustability just to keep tc geeks happy. :w00t:
 

2legsshrt

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Depends on your needs. There are trade offs with every SS type so far.

430 is low nickel content, low resistance, high-ish tcr, a little springy if you don't torch it.

317L & 316L are on the lower end of tcr, but a dream to work with. Tend to be a bit more expensive depending on where you buy.

304 is super cheap, midling tcr, low resistance. Can't speak to workabilty As I haven't used any.

For any SS, contact is fine, but if you prefer spaced, that's fine too. Twisted works well and counteracts the springiness of SS.

"Standard" coil will depend on your mod, atty, and preferences. I use thin wire and just use steam engine to find the # of wraps on a coiler to get to a target resistance.
Thanks for that. To me it kind of sounds like you would get the best performance with the 430. Sounds like 26awg would be fine and could use a spaced coil very similar in size to what I use with Ti. With a 5 wrap 3mm coil resistance would be .316 so would work fine the SX will handle it in TC. Does SS take a little more power to ramp up then Ti. Definately would like to give it a try. I take it it is fine to dry burn to clean, the coil doesn't deform with dry burning does it. 24 might be good also.
 

whplash

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Just thought I'd pipe in here. I've been using the 430ss from unkammen supplies, it's $10 for 200 ft, 28g. It needs a good cleaning before use, but I've been getting a better, more consistent vape from it than I have 316l. I use it in my aromamizers, bellus, and crius. Dual spaced coils at 8-10 wraps with a 2.5 or 3mm id. Works well on vtc mini, rx200, and Reuleaux DNA.


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pevinsghost

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I use a lot of 430 myself, I have 28ga. I've got two builds I switch between based on how much room I have to build in. Twisted dual coils, 11 wraps around 3mm, comes out to about 0.35 ohm. If I don't have insane amounts of space I don't twist, and do dual 8 wraps around 3mm, which comes to about 0.4 ohm.

I build as contact, but my non twisted builds tend to spread out into spaced coil as I mount them anyway.

Another thing to keep in mind with 430 is it can be a bit brittler than the other SS, so it needs a slightly delicate touch or you're going to get snapped legs.

That said, it's still easy to work with and about as versatile as you could ask for.
 

pbanj

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Is something wrong with Ni200? I've never used TC but I have four mods that do it. I mainly stick with Clapton coils and whatnot. But I ordered a roll of 28g Ni200 to try it. Is that still safe to use?
It's safe, it can just be a pain to work with.
 
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