Cool.
BTW, your cat does not look like he/she is eating 7 cans of food a day. Suspect he/she is stockpiling for the catapocalypse.
Lets just say he has an "excellent bowel movement" put politely.
TC-TCR Temperature Control TCR Value Solution for Different Coils/Mods
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Lets just say he has an "excellent bowel movement" put politely.
Just finished uploading, I don't know how the videos will be shown
"you might have to click a link to it".
Bear with me on this, I will post pictures first of the condition of the coil we built
last time I posted pictures, so it is the same coil for 1.22ohm reading when it was brand new.
Please take notice of the changes I am doing in the video, take notice of the new ohm reading,
and it is important to note how the behavior of the coil changes when I switch from TCR 80 to standard "average" TCR rating for SS wire which is TCR 88. TCR 88 seems to ramp up the coil quicker for this build. Also take note it is no longer a "fresh build" and there is carbon build up on the coil. notice the change in wattage "joules" and the change on preheat levels and how the coil is responding to them!
Repeat the video if you have too and notice the behavior.
I am eagerly waiting for your feedback!
I keep remembering what @mikepetro said "Expect a range within 50F" so if the range of 50F up or down is considered accurate? Did I find the correct TCR value? If so then my safe bet moving on would be
1- Test the wire build in open chimney environment <Input TCR value here as a base standard.
2- Test in closed chimney environment to make sure your not "out of range"
What I learned from this video is closed chimney is a "Must do process" if you have
everything already.
Coil condition
New reading 1.18ohm!
Video 1:
Dropbox - Video Feb 07, 7 30 18 PM.mov - Simplify your life
Video 2:
Dropbox - Video Feb 07, 7 38 20 PM.mov - Simplify your life
Watched them again, was a bit preoccupied last night. Difficult to see what changes you made in both videos. So this is a new coil? I am curious why your previous test was 408°F and these new ones are reaching temps as high as 454°F. But as mentioned, I could not see what change you made for those results.
TCR will not affect ramp up. TCR is just a value that determines how much a metal’s resistance changes with every +/- °C. Do not know what “Standard” and “Average” are on the YiHi – they sound like pre-heat adjustments so that is most likely why you felt the ramp up improved.
To each their own, but I do not see +/- 50°F as being accurate.
When I said +/- 50°F that was just WAG, in the context of "open chamber is all I got". At that point all you can do is a SWAG.
I never directly compared open vs closed chamber. Once I figured out closed chamber I didnt see any value in open chamber.
I never directly compared open vs closed chamber. Once I figured out closed chamber I didnt see any value in open chamber.
@Punk In Drublic, Yeah the TCR screen is hard to read. The coil is the same coil from my last post when I built it and came out to 1.22ohm. I only changed TCR to 88 in the second video and midway in second video I changed it back to 80. The coil is not new.
The Eco,Soft,Standard,Powerful,Powerful+,SQ profiles Those are all are "preheat" settings
except SQ profiles.
@mikepetro, Is it safe to say I am close or spot on accurate for this spool of wire?
Can I go lower than 80 TCR?
you seen the behavior of the metal. If you notice the second video TCR 88 the temp is climbing faster for some reason.
I ordered some Temco T1 wires 30ga and 28ga, They are however "resistance" wires,
is it going to behave the same as the SS resistance wires?
The non-resistance T1 is only available in Temco site, what are the difference between
T1 resistance vs nonresistance? How do I test them? I could't find satisfying info online.
The only I read usful about T1 is that it's lower ohm wire, meaning if you build
14 wraps 28ga SS= 1.22ohm But 14 wraps 28ga T1=lower than 1.0ohm
So I guess I will build with 30ga T1.
The Eco,Soft,Standard,Powerful,Powerful+,SQ profiles Those are all are "preheat" settings
except SQ profiles.
@mikepetro, Is it safe to say I am close or spot on accurate for this spool of wire?
Can I go lower than 80 TCR?
you seen the behavior of the metal. If you notice the second video TCR 88 the temp is climbing faster for some reason.
I ordered some Temco T1 wires 30ga and 28ga, They are however "resistance" wires,
is it going to behave the same as the SS resistance wires?
The non-resistance T1 is only available in Temco site, what are the difference between
T1 resistance vs nonresistance? How do I test them? I could't find satisfying info online.
The only I read usful about T1 is that it's lower ohm wire, meaning if you build
14 wraps 28ga SS= 1.22ohm But 14 wraps 28ga T1=lower than 1.0ohm
So I guess I will build with 30ga T1.
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No need to be concerned about the difference in coil resistance. You are using a variable wattage device, 30 watts with a 1.22 ohm coil is still 30 watts with a 1 ohm coil. The device will read your coil resistance and adjust the voltage accordingly to meet your wattage.
Besides. Despite Titanium is inherently lower in resistance, it is also much lower in mass which means less power is needed to obtain the same temperature within the same duration. Ti also has a much higher TCR rate meaning it will have a greater rise in resistance than SS316L of the same dimension coil.
Back to your testing. Bit puzzled why your TCR of 80 setting has resulted in such discrepancies between your tests. How does the vaporesso fair?
If you notice in the video under TCR 88 it seem to behave better if that makes sense.
Have not used the Vaporesso but I was impressed with it's accuracy when it came to TCR 80
for that coil. But as @mikepetro said if you dial in TCR in one device then that spool should be good with any device with the same TCR value.
To be honest I am at a lose with SS wire, can I go below TCR 80 say TCR 75 to obtain better accuracy? How should I test the incoming T1 wire the same principles or different?
I was calculating ohms for T1 and it looks like for my builds 32ga 34ga is ideal but the wires are way to thin and sensitive. I will stick with 30ga T1 for my builds though.
On another note, why dry firing T1 is not recommended? I know the Coil heats MUCH quicker and thus if it reach 1400F it will create white powder "nasty stuff".
I dont see a reason not to fire it slightly like I do with SS, Only T1 I will fire in in 300F-400F
just to let it smoke out that initial "smoke" you get out of new wires, I dont want that stuff
to be stuck in my cotton. You know how detailed I am I will make sure only fire it for initial color change.
The true TCR value of the metal never changes, it will always remain the same. This value should be used across all devices. If each device is accurate within a certain degree, then their results will be very similar. If there is a deficiency within the device, then this will show up in your results.
Assuming your off cap test was accurate, you have established TCR 80 allowed you to match the device’s prescribed temperature with that of the thermocouple (within a certain degree). If this is correct, then this should be replicated with the on cap test. In fact, it should be replicated regardless of the atomizer used as long as the same wire is being utilized. Slight adjustments in power maybe needed, but the temps should never exceed by a large sum.
Your on cap test did not replicate that. It exceeded your temperature and by a healthy margin. So either..
A: Your off cap test was incorrect
B: Your thermocouple is not accurate
C: The YiHi is not accurate
By using the Vaporesso we can remove whether the YiHi is the problem or not. The wire is not the problem, the problem is either your device, or the thermocouple.
But if I may inject my opinion, I feel your thermocouple is not reading temps correctly. I am open to SS316L being a TCR of 0.0008, I am not a metallurgist, so I do not know if that is possible or not, but I have never seen it that low.
As for coil resistance. With your SS wire, you enjoy a 1.22 ohm coil. The characteristics of that coil is due to the surface area, the metals specific heat capacity and the mass of that coil. The resistance is just an arbitrary number. In this case it has no value (on a mechanical it has value for resistance will dictate the output).
When I make coils I focus on the surface area and mass and ignore the resistance unless I am making a coil for a mech. Surface area will determine how much vapor is being produced (assuming same temperature is being achieved) and mass will determine how much power will be required to heat that coil. Mass also retains heat which means longer time to cool that coil.
Titanium will produce Titanium Dioxide at around 1200+°F. It is claimed Ti Dioxide is hazardous if inhaled. Dry burning any metal can easily achieve that temperature (glowing to a somewhat dark to medium cherry colour). That is why it is recommended not to dry burn Titanium. If you can keep it below say <600°F, then you should not have any concerns with Ti Dioxide. Use Temperature Control on your device. Set it slightly higher than normal, and lower the wattage. JUST make sure you are using the proper TCR and if the coil glows, toss it an make a new one. Easy peasy!
One thing that concerns me is this photo. It "looks" like the the thermocouple tip is touching 2 loops of the coil. This could easily change the resistance by shorting 2 of the wraps. Did the same coil measure 1.18 ohms BEFORE you inserted the thermocouple? The way to get around this is to use fewer loops in the coil so that it is more spaced. I know thats not what you normally vape but for determining the TCR you do what you have to do, the true TCR is the same regardless of number of wraps.
Also, while the TCR looked right at 400, assuming the thermocouple wasnt shorting 2 wraps, I would recommend a 3 point check using 350, 400, and 450. The reason is that this TCR might just happen to right at 400 but it might not be dead on. If it is right the temps should be fairly linear ie correct at all 3 points.
I cant speak to the resistance version of TI as I didnt see it on their site. What I use is this:
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One thing that concerns me is this photo. It "looks" like the the thermocouple tip is touching 2 loops of the coil. This could easily change the resistance by shorting 2 of the wraps. Did the same coil measure 1.18 ohms BEFORE you inserted the thermocouple? The way to get around this is to use fewer loops in the coil so that it is more spaced. I know thats not what you normally vape but for determining the TCR you do what you have to do, the true TCR is the same regardless of number of wraps.
Also, while the TCR looked right at 400, assuming the thermocouple wasnt shorting 2 wraps, I would recommend a 3 point check using 350, 400, and 450. The reason is that this TCR might just happen to right at 400 but it might not be dead on. If it is right the temps should be fairly linear ie correct at all 3 points.
I cant speak to the resistance version of TI as I didnt see it on their site. What I use is this:
View attachment 868461
My thought exactly!
I was thinking of using 30ga first to test the wire with fewer “wraps” and space them further apart! After taking measurements and setting a correct TCR then I can go back and build my preferred 28ga with more surface area and more wraps. But I am worried sense it is a different spool it might have different TCR.
So I will most likely do this, 28ga T1 space it out “my concern here is lower ohm nature of T1 wire”. And fewer wraps to create more space for the temperature probe.
And yes Mike I did receive a “short” message on screen the last time I did the test so yes it was shorting and hopefully my next build with fewer wraps thus lower ohm will be better. I will stick the probe tip inside the cotton under one of the coils directly.
The 1.18ohm reading was taken before the probe was inserted, and after. The shorts happened on the device so thank god for that feature [emoji51]
I continued testing though after the shorts.
And yeah I got the T1 “surgical grade wire” off of Amazon 28ga and 30ga.
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I went to the calculator SE and T1 seem to ohm much lower than SS if you input 28ga wire 2.5mm inner. Try it out please
You will notice it requires much more wraps to get to 1.25ohm. And this less place for the probe. But for testing I don’t mind fewer wraps and sub-ohming to get the correct TCR.
Ideal ohm for me 1.2 to 1.25
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Yes, T1 is inherently lower in resistance than SS316L, but why the concern? What is 1.2 ohms giving you that makes you want to stick to that resistance?
No reason. I tried 1.5 ohm and felt it cooler
Tried 1.0ohm and found it little hotter.
1.2insh seems sweet spot for me or my e-liquid. Gives me more range to go hotter or cooler and more surface area for 28-30ga wires.
Also like the idea of not wasted e-liquid
And longer battery life. 1.2ohm seem to be in between lower ohm and higher ohm.
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But for testing the TCR why not do a lower ohm coil? Not what you normally vape, but this is testing for specs. The TCR wont change when you build a higher ohm coil in normal every day vaping.
Now the wattage will be different, but thats not relevant for testing TCR as long as you have enough watts.
My TI fused claptons are 0.16 ohms, no problem firing them on a DNA. Whats the minimum resistance your mods will recognize? Stay above that and you will be fine.
Yeah for testing I don’t mind. The goal is fewer wraps, more space for probe.
My YiHi
Mininum Atomizer Resistance: 0.05ohm
I use Samsung 20700 T40 batteries
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This area on your probe looks awfully long. It might have been shorting against the chimney walls.
Notice how the insulation goes all the way almost to the tip of my probe, only the metal probe tip is under a wrap, and no bare probe wire beyond that. Do you have another probe with longer insulation?
1.5 ohms felt cooler because you have changed the mass of the coil and did not adjust power accordingly. 1 ohms felt hotter for the exact same reason. T1 is lower in mass than SS316L so for the same dimensions (same awg and number of wraps) it will require less power.
Coil resistance has no bearing on battery life with a regulated mod. Your power setting determines the battery life. Coil resistance has no bearing on how much juice is vaporized. Your power and the surface area of the coil dictates this.
If you switch to TI you need to rethink that 1.25 "ideal" resistance. The was the ideal resistance for you with SS, TI is a different animal.
Most of my coils are 0.25 or less, but I use heavier wire so yours might be 0.5 or so.
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